phoenixZ33

I was walking aroung at a dealer a few weeks ago and noticed how the 2004 Maxima brakes looked a lot bigger than the brakes on my Enthusiast model Z. After some searching around I found out that they use 12.5" front rotors. I know a lot of Nissan brakes are interchangeable, so I figured what the heck..

A quick search on www.car-part.com brought up a ton of 2004 Maxima front brake calipers, ranging from $125 to $50 each. A week later I received my front rotors and calipers in the mail; I tried them out tonight just to see if they fit.

Quick specs:

2004 Maxima
Rotor - 318mm x 27mm, 20.5lbs
Caliper - Single piston floating

2004 Z
Rotor - 297mm x 24mm, 17lbs
Caliper - Single piston floating

Sorry if these numbers are slightly off, I had to measure it with a standard tape measure and convert to metric, might be off a mm or so.

-Everything bolts right up using stock hardware. Test-fitted one side in less than 10 minutes.

-Fits under stock 17x7.5 wheels with no added spacers

-Haven't attatched the brake line yet, but same style so it should fit fine

-I doubt it will help with raw stopping power, but it should help with fade resistance if you do a lot of track events,

-It's nice if you can't afford an expensive brake upgrade, want to fill the wheel a little more, don't want to show off (ie. if you don't want your local AutoX steward to find out) or just want something simple and stock looking.

-Used, all the parts were $250 bucks.

I am looking for some good pads to put in before I try it out. That's one of the two questionable items I have left (see below fo the other): whether or not they make good pads for the Maxima brakes.

If this isn't new info, sorry, I couldn't find anything using the search. I haven't actually driven the car with these yet like I said, this is just a test-fit result. In addition I haven't actually cross referenced these parts (since they don't have part numbers) with actual Maxima brakes, so for all I know they could be FX45 brakes, but I'm 99% sure they are correct. Just a disclaimer.

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The brakes installed. The other issue I am wondering about is the pad placement on the rotor. The rotor itself is centered in the caliper, but it appears like the caliper is 1-2mm too far out from the center of the hub. You can see how the pad doesn't go exactly to the inside of the rotor. Whether or not this matters.. who knows, I'll find out eventually. I'm not too worried about it though.

phoenixZ33

The wheel installed.

phoenixZ33

The rotors compared. I didn't compare the stock caliper, it looks almost identical. Sleeper brake upgrade...

friscomgm

iTrader: (1)

Interesting setup! Great find. Cheap big rotor upgrade for sure!

MY350Z.COM

iTrader: (2)

Even cheaper is getting Z32 4-pistons from a junkyard, those bolt right up as well.

themartyr

thats pretty cool! Whats the cheapest big brake upgrade? (Slotted rotors and all that good stuff)

FritzMan

Great info! Finally a confirmation.

I was researching that upgrade a few months back but used parts were scare in Canada, and new was ridiculous.

Do the stock brake lines from the Z work on the Maxima?

... and which rotor will a Z32 4-piston bolt up to? Stock 350?

PoWeRtRiP

unfortunately they are single pot calipers. even the stock z's brakes are dual pot fronts (right) so these would heat up faster and wear sooner.

phoenixZ33

The stock Z calipers are single pot as well. I don't see how that would affect brake fade at all though. One of the reasons brakes "heat up" is because the rotor can't dissipate heat fast enough which heats up the caliper and that eventually leads to heating up and/or boiling the fluid. The common cures for brake fade are usually different fluid, different pads and bigger rotors.

There's ~15% more surface area using the Maxima rotors over the base model Z rotors, it should help a lot. Brake "wear" should be the same as well. Also keep in mind these brakes are supposed to be big enough for a 3500lb Maxima, the Z is almost 300lbs lighter than that and should have less front-end weight.

-Like I said I haven't bolted the brake line up yet, but they're both Banjo fittings. I'm 99% sure it will be the same (hence the reason I didn't bother to test fit the line itself)

-Z32 calipers would be cool, but IIRC the Z32 rotor is smaller, in the 11.9" range. I don't think it would fit unless you made some kind of adapter bracket, but that defeats the whole purpose of having 12.5" brakes for $250-300.

There's a possibility the Z32 caliper would fit, but I don't know how much that would help as the car is probably limited by the tire grip when it comes to raw stopping power. A stock caliper with some Nismo/Porterfield/Hawk pads should be plenty of stopping power. The few articles I've read about non-track model Zs, they mention the brakes fading after 2-3 laps around any given road course. I haven't tracked my Z yet to confirm that, but I've done enough events in other cars to know that it's very possible the stock brakes will overheat.

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

This shouldn't be a problem. Does the pad overhang on the outer edge of the rotor? If it does, you may end up with some wear issues. That's not a big deal either though, unless it is extreme.

Do you know what the piston bore diameter is on your new maxima calipers is? Are the Maxima rear brakes the same as the Z, or are they also bigger?
The primary issue with this setup is this...by increasing the diameter of the rotor, you are increasing the amount of brake torque on the front wheels (assuming the piston bore of the maxima caliper is the same as the piston bore on the stock Z caliper). In other words, you have increased the front brake bias. If the piston bore in the maxima caliper is bigger than in the Z caliper...then you have increased front brake torque and bias even more. Your rear wheels won't be doing as much work relative to the front as they were in stock configuration, and you may have actually lengthened stopping distances. A more aggressive pad will exacerbate the problem. Also, if the piston bore is bigger, you'll have more pedal travel than stock.
The factors that affect brake torque on a give wheel are 1. rotor diameter 2. caliper piston bore 3. coefficient of friction of the pad compound.
When we make a big brake kit for a car, we have to take these factors into account. If we want to add a bigger rotor in the front for heat capacity, then we try and get it to be in the ballpark of the stock brake torque acting on the front wheels, so it is balanced with the rears. Therefore, if the rotor grows and we use a slightly more aggressive pad than stock, that means we need smaller pistons in the caliper to bring the torque range back down to a reasonable range. If you use a bigger rotor, higher coefficient of friction, and bigger pistons, you are amplifying the brake torque on the front wheels each step of the way. This is what a lot of our competitors do. However, each platform is a bit different. That is why testing is important. Some cars like a little more front bias, while some like a little more to the rear to acheive the shortest stopping distances. We toy with these variables out at the test track to find the 'sweet spot.'

My guess is that your car will have a bit more heat capacity, but it won't stop in as short of a distance.

phoenixZ33

A while back SCC wrote an article on the Z where they pulled the ABS fuse and went out and locked the brakes up. They said it locked the rear tires way before the front and when they upgraded the front brakes it helped even that out more. I don't remember the details exactly, it was over a year ago.

Regardless, 60-0 stopping distances while fun to look at in magazines and compare, I'm not fully convinced they make a huge difference. (Don't freak out yet, lemme explain). A few months ago I was at Arroyo Seco Raceway in New Mexico doing a track day. They have the usual 50, 40, 30, 10 markers before the corner entering the first corner off the straight. After a zillion laps, I was curious how much of a difference it really made to brake at the absolute last second possible. Overall braking from the first marker to the very last one possible (50 down to 20 meters if I remember correctly) it averaged out to like 0.2-0.3 per lap. Not saying grippy brakes aren't important, but if I wanted to brake any harder it would have required bigger and better tires. Yeah it helps for dive bombing in corners to pass (if you're racing), but I'll easily give up a few feet in stopping distance if it means I can go an extra 20-25 minutes before brake fade occurs, if at all.

Overall I agree 100% with what you said. I did Skyline GTR brakes on my 240SX (for some reason that car comes up in all my posts..) and you can imagine what going from 250 to 325mm rotors will do for your brake bias! It has WAY too much front brake bias and locks up easily, so I'm guessing it stops the same or worse than stock. It's just nice being able to do 135 track miles in a day and know you can go out session after session and have good brakes.

That being said, I have't tried it on the street better yet any track, so we'll see. They could be the exact same performance as stock, better or worse. Main point is if the stock base model brakes fade easily, this might help.. for the same price as a set of good brake pads so it may be worth it. Once I/we get on a track, we'll have an answer. Sorry for the long post, I tend to ramble and beat things to death sometimes. lol

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

Interesting stuff. Even cooler if it works. I can verify that the stock brakes fade very quickly. After my first track day in the Z, I'm on the upgrade path.

phoenixZ33

off-topic - zillinois, what wheels do you have on your car (in your avatar)>

FritzMan

I agree. I think adding a slightly larger front rotor will help improve the balance as it's rear biased right now (J Ritt would know for sure). That's one of the reasons why my current setup of Hawk HP+ with a slightly weaker HPS rear pad isn't really bothering me as it feels like it's helping the brake balance. I've never pulled the ABS fuse to confirm which locks up first though. What I do know is that HP+ front with HPS and stainless lines have made a surprising improvement to already very good brakes. Passengers always notice the brakes in my car first before the handling and power aspects.

IMO improved heat absorption would be the primary benefit of Maxima upgrade though. A quality front duct kit would also be of help. For me, any and all sleeper improvements are a bonus - especially cheap OEM part swapping.

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

Complete Custom Wheels (CCW) the Classic Street model.

CCWheels

More pics

NismoKid

Pretty cool idea. I think I'm going to try to find a wrecked 2004 Nissan SE-R with the Brembos. I hope I can get a good deal on them.

Ricky

Does any company make cross drill or slotted rotors in the Maxima's size? If so, then we might even be able to get those, so not only are they bigger, but slotted and/or drilled.

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

Keep in mind that you have altered the oem staggered tire setup, your running the same size front and rear according to your sig. Several guys tracking their cars with same tires at all four corners have reported deminished ABS performance as a result. Might be worthwhile when tire replacement time comes around to up the height of the rears.

phoenixZ33

the Spec V used 4-lug rotors, so you'd either have to drill Spec V rotors out or find another rotor that's 305mm. Given the last set I saw on Ebay went for ~800, you might as well just get a Stoptech kit, depending on how much those go for.

NismoKid

How about using only the calipers (4 pot out front and 2 pot in the rears). Use aftermarket rotors or Maxima's for that matter. Does anyone know the part number for the brembo calipers on the SE-R?

Edit: You'd probably have to make custom brakets for the calipers.