FlaPhil

I know everybody here uses different finishing products to make your paint shine and keep it protected. Zaino, Blackfire, P21S, Meguiar's, and others are mentioned. This information tells you what to expect from your product.

I was looking at www.properautocare.com today and ran across this explaination of carnaubas vs. polymers. Check it out:

This is why I think most polymers on black or dark colors looks like plastic wrap, "sterile, lacking emotion" says it best.

I've been using Blackfire on my Super Black. Even though it is a polymer, it gives the appearance of a carnauba, "A darker, deeper, richer shine" that lasts a long time and fights against water spots.

Just thought I'd throw this out to you detailing fanatics.

Brad4rdHay

Yup, I mentioned this in my detailing sessions. BF does have a carnauba like look. Remember though, most carnauba waxes out there are of shitty quality and just use thick silicon oils to look kinda good for a week. But when you use a good one its magic.

JonsilvZ

I use Turtle Wax %100 pure carnauba blend. I think the results are good. How does this brand stack up to the competition?

Brad4rdHay

Honestly, Turtle wax isn't considered very good at all.

Kevin Overall

There is no such thing as a 100% carnauba wax, meaning if so for instance the 8 ounce container of wax contained actually 100% carnauba wax since carnauba wax in its natural form is as hard as a brick it would be impossible to spread onto the surface of a car.

When any wax on the can says 100% carnauba wax, what that means is that the part of the container that actually contains the carnauba, then that part is in fact 100% carnauba wax. 99% of any wax you buy that says it contains carnauba wax will have actual content of carnauba wax in the 4 to 5% of the volume of the container. The other 95% of the container will be oils, silicones, cleaners like Naptha, fillers, and abrasives.

Any carnauba wax does not get its shine from the actual carnauba, the carnauba wax itself is cloudy and dull in its natural form. Carnauba waxes get their shine from the additives like silicone oil that is added to most all carnaubas, either silicone or in some cases white mineral oil.

Also, carnauba is an over used word like, Kleenex, Coke, etc. Many wax makers put the word on the container when in fact the product may only contain trace amounts of carnauba when the acutal wax (a much cheaper wax) called KAOLIN is used to protect the paint.

For instance, look at this MSDS sheet for Meguiars DEEP CRYSTAL CARNAUBA WAX : http://www.hazard.com/msds/f/cbs/cbsvw.html

You will see that the container is made up of:

PETROLEUM DISTILLATE
% Wt: 8-23
KAOLIN,NON-METALLIC
% Wt: 1-5
Name: POLYMERIC WAX BLEND (TRADE SECRET)
% Wt: 5-10
Name: HYDROTREATED MIDDLE PETROLEUM DISTILLATE
% Wt: 5-10
Name: SORBITAN SESQUIOLEATE
% Wt: 1-5
Name: POLYGLYCEROL ESTER
% Wt: 1-5
Name: POLY (DIMETHYLSILOXANE)
% Wt: 1-5


Please note on this particular product, being a cheap over the counter product, is does contain DMS !!! (DIMETHYLSILOXANE) which is just about the worst case silicone that you can use on an automotive paint. (the last product listed) DMS should not be found at all in upper level waxes and polishes.

Kevin V

This I have to disagree with. I never thought of a shine being happy or sad and since carnauba waxes have about 70-75% optical clarity and Zaino has 99% optical clarity, which one do you think is showing the true color of the car.

Brad4rdHay

Ok guys...I like Sal Zaino and he makes a great product, but hes also a great marketer. I agre that polymers tend not to change the color of the paint as much, but when a wax darkens the color (ever ever so slightly), it doesnt dull the paint, or really change the color as Sal makes it seem. Then again, Terry over at Classic Motoring Accesories is an old school wax guy who happens so seel his own brand of wax. But what hes saying has its merrit. Most of the **** retentive concours guys do is use a GOOD wax, as it does offer a look thats hard to match. Polymers put down a VERY thin very clear layer, while waxes put down a thicker layer so it will make a more noticable difference with the depth/shine...then again, it offers less protection as alot of that "layer" happens to be oils ect (or in the case of crappy waxes, cheap silicon)

apharmdb

iTrader: (1)

OK I'll ask...then what is a good to decent "over the counter" wax, polymer or carnuba?

Brad4rdHay

Hmmm. Well try to go online (again, properautocare.com is my fav site) and you can get some awesome wax for 15-20 bucks (Blitz wax, P21S ect.) If youre dealig with Pep Boys and such, then I'd have to say Mothers "Pure Carnauba Paste Wax" (not the cleaner wax, and not the liquid) and Meguiars Gold Class....with my fav being the Mothers. Both are actually pretty decent.

350z_jedi

I bought that Blackfire Kit from the properautocare web site and man oh man, I can't get over the shine. My car feels like glass when I touch it, I definitely recommend Blackfire.

Kevin V

What I like is that Zaino layers and is VERY durable. You put 10 coats of Zaino on you have 10 coats. With wax, you apply 10 coats you still have only 1 coat. That is if it didn't wash off in the rain.

It is all a matter of taste and what you are looking for in a product. Try different products and see what you like best about them.

Brad4rdHay

I use polymer sealant on my car so this isnt a biased knock, but reality is when a bird takes a crap on your car, it doesnt give a ...crap if theres a layer of polymer sealant there or not. Its gonna eat through. I fear some people think they can just put on a layer or two of polymer, not wash it for weeks and weeks at a time, and then re-wax 10-12 months later. Thats a REALLY bad idea

MY350isbtrthnurz

What I find really funny and it makes sence. I spoke to Terry at CMA the other day about a new product and I asked about layering products. He said it's funny I mentioned that because he gets several emails a day about layering products. Zaino like Klassa and Blackfire are all made on the same platform. He had a email where someone put 20 coats of All-in-one then 13 coats of High Gloss both Klassa products. The "customer" said after his 13th coat HGSG he started to see a cloudly patch about 2' wide and a little over a foot long. When the guy asked what could of cause that, Terry said why did you lay down so many coats. The guy replied more coats the better. That a lot of people suggested putting down several coats of each product. Terry's answer was with each coat of AIO removes the previous while laying a fresh coat down and to make sure he cover his car completely that he should of stop at application #3 if not after the second. The same goes for blackfire. If you keep polishing your car over and over again that you car will not get cleaner. Same goes for waxing layers there is NO proven way to measure the thickness of a wax application CMA was well as Sal both say as coats continue to enhance color but there will be a point where you can actually see no signifacant changes.

Brad4rdHay

You can layer Klasse SG, Zaino and Blackfire sealant, but you cant layer BF polish or Klasse AIO simply because the latter are polishes, not sealants (no no, Zaino isn't a polish despite what the advertizing says)

Layering a wax is not impossible but not as easily done as with a polymer.

jeffrey

My biggest problem with Carnuba based waxes is that they are yellow. So when you see you car finished after you wax it, you're seeing the color through a yellow tint.

It's not as noticeable on blacks or dark colors, but on other colors (reds, whites, silvers) I notice it a lot.

FlaPhil

I don't know where you get that you're looking through "yellow" wax, but I've used Pinnacle Souveran on my black and blue cars and have never seen any yellow coloring. If anything, it's a wet look, and the best I've ever used.

I use Blackfire now one reason is the cost, but the other is the slickness. nothing sticks to it, and it's easy to use.

jeffrey

All I'm sayig is I can see a difference.

If you do two red cars, one with and one without a 'yellow' wax and put them next to each other, you can see a different 'tint' to it.

Or at least I can.

FlaPhil

... both carnauba paste waxes? If so, there are different grades of carnauba. If putting a polymer against a carnauba, there is a chance you'll see a difference.

I have a friend who has a Ferrari Red F350 and says he put Zaino on it, and it looked orange. He stripped that and used Blackfire and it looks red again.

The Brickyard Rat

iTrader: (1)

On behalf of all new, non-fanatic (yet), Z car guys, I want to thank the posters here. This thread is most helpful.