Ontario Speeding Ticket Fighting Thread
06-25-2008, 02:17 AM
#1
Ontario Speeding Ticket Fighting Thread
Some time ago I received a speeding ticket. I always wanted to plead my innocence, but with the lack of info available, I felt quite intimidated with the whole process. I know a lot of people end up pleading guilty simply because they are too scared or are so unfamiliar with the whole thing that they just end up paying.
Please, no "you speed, you pay" replies. Anyone who believes their innocence deserves a trial, period. It shouldn't have to be so intimidating and you shouldn't feel bullied into pleading guilty because you don't know what to do. You can't find a faq on the internet because (a) the government wants your money and (b) lawyers also want your money. That leaves us regular people to help each other out.
Please feel free to add your own experiences or correct any of mine. I am NOT a lawyer. I'm just a regular guy sharing my experience. Don't take this as legal advice:
---------------------------------------------------------------
I got a ticket for 50km over, what do i do?
Stop reading. I can't really help you here. Get a good lawyer because it's not something to screw around with. A conviction of this magnitude will impact your life heavily under the new street racing laws.
I've received a speeding ticket. What do I do?
On the back of your speeding ticket you have three options. Plead Guilty, Guilty with Explanation, and Not Guilty.
Which one do I pick?
NOT GUILTY. Once you plead guilty, you are convicted and there is no turning back. If you plead NOT GUILTY, you can always change your mind from now to the day of your trial (usually a year later). Why wouldn't you want the extra year to make a decision? Take your time going over all the facts. Demerit points also start from the day you received your ticket, not conviction. Why not knock more than a year off the two years that stay on your record without even having them on your record?
Why don't I just plead Guilty with Explanation? Maybe I'll get lucky when they hear my story.
Pleading Guilty with Explanation will only get your charge reduced. This is not your trial and your arguments for being innocent will not be heard. They will not drop the charge.
But i'm scared and don't want to go to trial, should I plead Guilty with Explanation now?
No. When you go to court, they make you stand in a line and the Prosecutor (person representing the officer) will offer you the same reduced deal that you would have gotten from pleading Guilty with Explanation. If the cop is not there, your case will be dismissed and they won't even give you an offer. If he is there, just take the deal. You would have taken it anyways right?
They've offered to lower my points, should I take it?
In most cases no. If you think you have a good argument, go for it. "I was doing 55 in a 50, not 70" or "I was following traffic" is not an argument. Although, if you've been racking up demerit points like crazy lately, you might not want to run into court with guns a blazin' and putting your ***** on the line.
Here are some facts to think about before you take that "great" offer:
- Insurance Companies do not use the demerit point system. It is strictly government. Insurance companies only have two categories, (a) 1-49km over and (b) 50km and over. If you are charged with 30km over and have the opportunity to take a reduced fine of 14km over, it is still the same to the insurance companies. The only difference will be the number of provincial demerit points collected and reduced ticket fine. Are you willing to save $50 now but pay hundreds, if not thousands more over the years with insurance rates? If you think you have a case, what's the harm in fighting? You would still be punished the same with your insurance company.
- Demerit Points stay on your record for 2 years from the date of the offense. By the time you go to court, the points are almost gone from your record anyways. Does that offer still sound good?
Yeah, but I don't have a defense.
You sure? Ever read "The Highway Traffic Act Regulations"? Did you know a speed limit sign MUST be on the right side of the road? A certain height from the ground? Certain distance from the road? These ARE NOT defenses against speeding, but how can you prove your innocence if the signs are illegally displayed to begin with? Don't you think it will affect your case? Use these reasons to convince the Judge these things prevent you from a proper defense and it's impossible for you to receive a fair trial. You weren't speeding but the illegal signs prevent you from proving your case properly. A sign a couple cm's off from being legal isn't going to help you though. You will look like a jackass. It has to be something radical like being on the wrong side of the road or being way too high or way too low that it has affected the signs visibility. Again, it's NOT a defense against speeding. Use it properly.
Take this everyday speedtrap. This is Blackcreek Southbound coming from either the 400 South or 401 ramp. The speed drops from 100 to 80, then 80 to a 70 at this point. Officers wait in the bushes with their laser at the Queens Drive bridge (the further bridge in the picture). This sign is illegal according to Regulation 615 – Section 4: Speed Limit Signs: A speed limit sign shall be erected on the right side of the highway facing approaching traffic. The beginning of the Highway Traffic Act – Section 1 also states “...signs are displayed as required by the regulations”.
How fair is it to someone driving the 80km speed limit when they shove a speed sign wherever they please and wait till you pass it to give you a ticket?
Great, i'll just take a picture like that and show up to court right?
Wrong. Pictures have to be submitted to the courts way before the trial. They have to check for date, authenticity, camera model, etc. The prosecutor also has the right to view these pictures before court if you plan on using them as evidence. The prosecutor wants to beat you, don't give them an excuse to throw out your pictures. Some judges may allow for pictures without all the hassles but don't take that chance.
Where are these Regulations? I can't find them in the Highway Traffic Act.
They are, but they aren't. Let me explain. The version of the Highway Traffic Act that most people find online is not the full act. It is simply a short version that covers all the more important topics. Things like sign position, colour, size, etc are covered in the regulations.
Here is the Ontario search engine that covers all law:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/navigati...browse&lang=en
Example, type in Speed Limit Signs and you'll find the regulations not found in the short version of the Act.
The Cop reduced my ticket when he wrote it, can he bring it back up in court?
Yes. Does that mean you have to accept it? No. If you haven't asked for disclosure (officers notes), your only form of evidence is that ticket. The prosecutor will ask the Judge to bring up the speed to the non-reduced one. The Judge will ask you if you understand the prosecutor wants to have a trial under the non-reduced speed. This is where you say you understand but do not agree. Argue the fact that the ticket is your only form of evidence. You were either doing the speed written down or you weren't.
I can't remember/don't know if my ticket has been reduced. How can I tell?
On your ticket there's a box that says CODE. If your ticket has been reduced, the officer will write a "R" in this box. There isn't a legend or anything on the ticket explaining what "R" means, so as far as you're concerned, it doesn't really exist.
Should I hire an ex-police officer ticket magician?
No, they will not do anything for you that you can't do yourself. Pleading "Guilty with Explanation" is the equivalent of hiring these guys. They simply walk into the court, hand the prosecutor a list of their clients, laugh it up, and take a reduced fine just like anyone else. I kept thinking to myself, each person on his list paid him $300 for that? If you show up to trial alone, they will offer you the same reduced fine before trials begin. For the most part it's a big scam. Everyone gets in a line and they offer you a reduction in fine one by one. Why do they offer you a deal again before trials begin? Simple, they don't have enough time to have a trial for everyone. They will schedule 20+ people in a time frame knowing only 1 or 2 will take it to an actual trial. This is all they have time for.
But I hired/know someone who hired one of these guys and they won the case!
Not really. The officer probably didn't show up to begin with. They turn around and tell you "we won", which is still true.
There are good ticket fighters out there if you choose to use one. Usually they're not those ex-police officers though.
Please, no "you speed, you pay" replies. Anyone who believes their innocence deserves a trial, period. It shouldn't have to be so intimidating and you shouldn't feel bullied into pleading guilty because you don't know what to do. You can't find a faq on the internet because (a) the government wants your money and (b) lawyers also want your money. That leaves us regular people to help each other out.
Please feel free to add your own experiences or correct any of mine. I am NOT a lawyer. I'm just a regular guy sharing my experience. Don't take this as legal advice:
---------------------------------------------------------------
I got a ticket for 50km over, what do i do?
Stop reading. I can't really help you here. Get a good lawyer because it's not something to screw around with. A conviction of this magnitude will impact your life heavily under the new street racing laws.
I've received a speeding ticket. What do I do?
On the back of your speeding ticket you have three options. Plead Guilty, Guilty with Explanation, and Not Guilty.
Which one do I pick?
NOT GUILTY. Once you plead guilty, you are convicted and there is no turning back. If you plead NOT GUILTY, you can always change your mind from now to the day of your trial (usually a year later). Why wouldn't you want the extra year to make a decision? Take your time going over all the facts. Demerit points also start from the day you received your ticket, not conviction. Why not knock more than a year off the two years that stay on your record without even having them on your record?
Why don't I just plead Guilty with Explanation? Maybe I'll get lucky when they hear my story.
Pleading Guilty with Explanation will only get your charge reduced. This is not your trial and your arguments for being innocent will not be heard. They will not drop the charge.
But i'm scared and don't want to go to trial, should I plead Guilty with Explanation now?
No. When you go to court, they make you stand in a line and the Prosecutor (person representing the officer) will offer you the same reduced deal that you would have gotten from pleading Guilty with Explanation. If the cop is not there, your case will be dismissed and they won't even give you an offer. If he is there, just take the deal. You would have taken it anyways right?
They've offered to lower my points, should I take it?
In most cases no. If you think you have a good argument, go for it. "I was doing 55 in a 50, not 70" or "I was following traffic" is not an argument. Although, if you've been racking up demerit points like crazy lately, you might not want to run into court with guns a blazin' and putting your ***** on the line.
Here are some facts to think about before you take that "great" offer:
- Insurance Companies do not use the demerit point system. It is strictly government. Insurance companies only have two categories, (a) 1-49km over and (b) 50km and over. If you are charged with 30km over and have the opportunity to take a reduced fine of 14km over, it is still the same to the insurance companies. The only difference will be the number of provincial demerit points collected and reduced ticket fine. Are you willing to save $50 now but pay hundreds, if not thousands more over the years with insurance rates? If you think you have a case, what's the harm in fighting? You would still be punished the same with your insurance company.
- Demerit Points stay on your record for 2 years from the date of the offense. By the time you go to court, the points are almost gone from your record anyways. Does that offer still sound good?
Yeah, but I don't have a defense.
You sure? Ever read "The Highway Traffic Act Regulations"? Did you know a speed limit sign MUST be on the right side of the road? A certain height from the ground? Certain distance from the road? These ARE NOT defenses against speeding, but how can you prove your innocence if the signs are illegally displayed to begin with? Don't you think it will affect your case? Use these reasons to convince the Judge these things prevent you from a proper defense and it's impossible for you to receive a fair trial. You weren't speeding but the illegal signs prevent you from proving your case properly. A sign a couple cm's off from being legal isn't going to help you though. You will look like a jackass. It has to be something radical like being on the wrong side of the road or being way too high or way too low that it has affected the signs visibility. Again, it's NOT a defense against speeding. Use it properly.
Take this everyday speedtrap. This is Blackcreek Southbound coming from either the 400 South or 401 ramp. The speed drops from 100 to 80, then 80 to a 70 at this point. Officers wait in the bushes with their laser at the Queens Drive bridge (the further bridge in the picture). This sign is illegal according to Regulation 615 – Section 4: Speed Limit Signs: A speed limit sign shall be erected on the right side of the highway facing approaching traffic. The beginning of the Highway Traffic Act – Section 1 also states “...signs are displayed as required by the regulations”.
How fair is it to someone driving the 80km speed limit when they shove a speed sign wherever they please and wait till you pass it to give you a ticket?
Great, i'll just take a picture like that and show up to court right?
Wrong. Pictures have to be submitted to the courts way before the trial. They have to check for date, authenticity, camera model, etc. The prosecutor also has the right to view these pictures before court if you plan on using them as evidence. The prosecutor wants to beat you, don't give them an excuse to throw out your pictures. Some judges may allow for pictures without all the hassles but don't take that chance.
Where are these Regulations? I can't find them in the Highway Traffic Act.
They are, but they aren't. Let me explain. The version of the Highway Traffic Act that most people find online is not the full act. It is simply a short version that covers all the more important topics. Things like sign position, colour, size, etc are covered in the regulations.
Here is the Ontario search engine that covers all law:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/navigati...browse&lang=en
Example, type in Speed Limit Signs and you'll find the regulations not found in the short version of the Act.
The Cop reduced my ticket when he wrote it, can he bring it back up in court?
Yes. Does that mean you have to accept it? No. If you haven't asked for disclosure (officers notes), your only form of evidence is that ticket. The prosecutor will ask the Judge to bring up the speed to the non-reduced one. The Judge will ask you if you understand the prosecutor wants to have a trial under the non-reduced speed. This is where you say you understand but do not agree. Argue the fact that the ticket is your only form of evidence. You were either doing the speed written down or you weren't.
I can't remember/don't know if my ticket has been reduced. How can I tell?
On your ticket there's a box that says CODE. If your ticket has been reduced, the officer will write a "R" in this box. There isn't a legend or anything on the ticket explaining what "R" means, so as far as you're concerned, it doesn't really exist.
Should I hire an ex-police officer ticket magician?
No, they will not do anything for you that you can't do yourself. Pleading "Guilty with Explanation" is the equivalent of hiring these guys. They simply walk into the court, hand the prosecutor a list of their clients, laugh it up, and take a reduced fine just like anyone else. I kept thinking to myself, each person on his list paid him $300 for that? If you show up to trial alone, they will offer you the same reduced fine before trials begin. For the most part it's a big scam. Everyone gets in a line and they offer you a reduction in fine one by one. Why do they offer you a deal again before trials begin? Simple, they don't have enough time to have a trial for everyone. They will schedule 20+ people in a time frame knowing only 1 or 2 will take it to an actual trial. This is all they have time for.
But I hired/know someone who hired one of these guys and they won the case!
Not really. The officer probably didn't show up to begin with. They turn around and tell you "we won", which is still true.
There are good ticket fighters out there if you choose to use one. Usually they're not those ex-police officers though.
06-25-2008, 02:18 AM
#2
...continued
My trial is almost a year away, can I argue that it's been too long and have it thrown out?
Honestly, this depends on the Judge. Under the Canadian Charter of Rights [Section 11(b)], you have the "...Right to be Tried Within a Reasonable Time". Previous cases from many years ago set the standard at around 8 months. Since the courts are now backed up more than ever, the standard is around 12+ months. This isn't something I've read from the boards. This is what the Judge said while I was watching other people fight using the Charter. There might be paperwork to fill out though way in advance. I don't know since I never used it, but people argued it either way. You need a reason why the delay has affected your defense. You can't simply say "It's been too long, I want it dismissed". The Judge will tell you no. You need a reason why the delay has prevented you from defending yourself against the charges resulting in an unfair trial.
The cop got me on radar. I heard they aren't very accurate. Maybe he got the guy next to me?
Ontario officers do not use radar technology. They use laser (LIDAR) which is as accurate as accurate can be. They can pinpoint your car exactly. Depending whether the officer records it or not, tell you exactly how far you were when he pinned you in meters. It still isn't perfect and has its problems (ex. Sweep Error), but is difficult to defend in court.
I don't have a defense, but I heard the cop doesn't always show up.
Always have a defense. Cover all your basis. Be prepared for any outcome. Officers show up more times than not. I have no idea about Ontario, but there are places in North America that offer overtime for officers who go to court. It makes sense for a city to offer an officer some extra cash to show up then to lose thousands of dollars worth of tickets. You should still be ok though. The prosecution will offer you a deal anyways if the officer is there. If you have no defense, you might as well take the deal.
I was speeding, but I have a good excuse!!!
Under the law there is 2 excuses for speeding. You either (a) are an officer/emergency vehicle driver; or (b) fear your life is in danger and the only way to save yourself is to speed.
Rushing to the hospital to see your sick uncle is still not an excuse, even if he's dying. Having a passenger who is dieing in your car, probably a good excuse.
Is it true a Judge can have my trial rescheduled when I show up for my original date?
Yes. Courtrooms run in blocks of time. Sometimes there's a new batch of people showing up while your batch is still in the courtroom. Courts only have time to take one or two people all the way to trial. Everyone else just caves for a reduced fine and that's what they want you to do. Anyways, a Judge may reschedule because of lack of time, or if they are real dicks, when a cop doesn't show up. It only means your trial is going to extend way past to what is fair. Use it to your advantage.
Honestly, this depends on the Judge. Under the Canadian Charter of Rights [Section 11(b)], you have the "...Right to be Tried Within a Reasonable Time". Previous cases from many years ago set the standard at around 8 months. Since the courts are now backed up more than ever, the standard is around 12+ months. This isn't something I've read from the boards. This is what the Judge said while I was watching other people fight using the Charter. There might be paperwork to fill out though way in advance. I don't know since I never used it, but people argued it either way. You need a reason why the delay has affected your defense. You can't simply say "It's been too long, I want it dismissed". The Judge will tell you no. You need a reason why the delay has prevented you from defending yourself against the charges resulting in an unfair trial.
The cop got me on radar. I heard they aren't very accurate. Maybe he got the guy next to me?
Ontario officers do not use radar technology. They use laser (LIDAR) which is as accurate as accurate can be. They can pinpoint your car exactly. Depending whether the officer records it or not, tell you exactly how far you were when he pinned you in meters. It still isn't perfect and has its problems (ex. Sweep Error), but is difficult to defend in court.
I don't have a defense, but I heard the cop doesn't always show up.
Always have a defense. Cover all your basis. Be prepared for any outcome. Officers show up more times than not. I have no idea about Ontario, but there are places in North America that offer overtime for officers who go to court. It makes sense for a city to offer an officer some extra cash to show up then to lose thousands of dollars worth of tickets. You should still be ok though. The prosecution will offer you a deal anyways if the officer is there. If you have no defense, you might as well take the deal.
I was speeding, but I have a good excuse!!!
Under the law there is 2 excuses for speeding. You either (a) are an officer/emergency vehicle driver; or (b) fear your life is in danger and the only way to save yourself is to speed.
Rushing to the hospital to see your sick uncle is still not an excuse, even if he's dying. Having a passenger who is dieing in your car, probably a good excuse.
Is it true a Judge can have my trial rescheduled when I show up for my original date?
Yes. Courtrooms run in blocks of time. Sometimes there's a new batch of people showing up while your batch is still in the courtroom. Courts only have time to take one or two people all the way to trial. Everyone else just caves for a reduced fine and that's what they want you to do. Anyways, a Judge may reschedule because of lack of time, or if they are real dicks, when a cop doesn't show up. It only means your trial is going to extend way past to what is fair. Use it to your advantage.
Trending Topics
06-25-2008, 06:01 AM
#8
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You wrote earlier that they use laser, not radar here. Is that a fact? Why are radar detectors banned then? Is it just a remnant from when they used to use them?
I'm just curious btw, I'm not trying to disprove anything you said. I've wanted to get one for some time (yea, I know they're illegal), but if it's gonna be useless too, there's no point.
I'm just curious btw, I'm not trying to disprove anything you said. I've wanted to get one for some time (yea, I know they're illegal), but if it's gonna be useless too, there's no point.
06-25-2008, 06:02 AM
#9
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can give a few tips of advice here.
GUNS BLAZING:
As far as going in guns blazing, don't do it. Unless you really think you did nothing wrong. But if you got stopped for speeding, it was probably because you were speeding. Even if it was by only by a little bit.
If the lights start flashing and you need to pull over, don't panic and don't get angry. You life is not over, there is no reason to get all dramatic. Its tough for some to understand, but actually being nice and cooperative with the officer almost always works in your favor. If you act like an ***, the officer will write you up, your chance of a warning has evaporated. Also I have often met officers that will give you a ticket, but tell you to go to court and it will get resolved. Sometimes they wont show, other times they will be there in cooperation to reduce the ticket. You can ask for no points to be deducted, and only to pay a fine. And they will agree to it often. Remember they want your money the most. If you need to pay up a bit because you were caught going over the speed limit, but you wont lose any demerit points, then the results are quite good.
Example: I was driving back from Mississauga near the lake, and it was around 1am. No one on the road, just me and two colleagues of mine in my car. I was clocked going 95 in an 80. Of which btw, I thought I was on the highway. I still have no clue what road I was on, but it was 5 lanes going in one direction and I didn't notice and speed signs (though i am sure they were around). To make things even more exciting, my license had expired a year ago without me noticing. Now one of the cops wanted to arrest me, the other was more understanding. I had a friend of mine drive my car home, and the officers gave me two hefty tickets. Though the nice one came up to me and told me not to worry, just go to court and it will get resolved. Btw, I was extremely nice and cooperative during the whole situation. In the end the cop was there and talked to the crown. I had to pay a reduced fine for both, but no loss of points. This was a huge win for me, and I got to say, that officer was great and understanding. Some of these guys are good people.
EXCUSES:
I have to say there is little reason as to why a judge would let you off the hook for speeding. But I can recall one incident. I was on the Allen road going towards the 401 and I was clocked at around 145 (Allen Road is an 80max). They stopped me, wrote me up a hefty ticket and sent me on my way. I explained why I was speeding, but they didn't care. Actually they didn't even offer to help in the situation.
I took it to court. The judge took a look at the ticket and noticed how fast I was going, and not even coming off the highway, but going on to it. He was not amused. I decided to plead my case. In actuality a cousin of mine called me to tell me that her ex which was just released from jail for break-in and rape was at her work. So I told her to stay calm, and that I would be there quickly. Hence the speeding.
Now for one, while there is no real excuse for speeding, claiming that someones life is on the line is a pretty damn good reason. Secondly, I pointed out that the officers failed to believe my explanation and offer any help of advice in the situation.
The ticket was excused.
EX-COPPERS:
Forget these guys, I agree. They wont help you at all. What you want is to reduce or totally get rid of any points the ticket might cause you. The ex-coppers will only avoid you paying the fine at most. You end up paying them an arm and a leg, and your insurance is still screwed.
GUNS BLAZING:
As far as going in guns blazing, don't do it. Unless you really think you did nothing wrong. But if you got stopped for speeding, it was probably because you were speeding. Even if it was by only by a little bit.
If the lights start flashing and you need to pull over, don't panic and don't get angry. You life is not over, there is no reason to get all dramatic. Its tough for some to understand, but actually being nice and cooperative with the officer almost always works in your favor. If you act like an ***, the officer will write you up, your chance of a warning has evaporated. Also I have often met officers that will give you a ticket, but tell you to go to court and it will get resolved. Sometimes they wont show, other times they will be there in cooperation to reduce the ticket. You can ask for no points to be deducted, and only to pay a fine. And they will agree to it often. Remember they want your money the most. If you need to pay up a bit because you were caught going over the speed limit, but you wont lose any demerit points, then the results are quite good.
Example: I was driving back from Mississauga near the lake, and it was around 1am. No one on the road, just me and two colleagues of mine in my car. I was clocked going 95 in an 80. Of which btw, I thought I was on the highway. I still have no clue what road I was on, but it was 5 lanes going in one direction and I didn't notice and speed signs (though i am sure they were around). To make things even more exciting, my license had expired a year ago without me noticing. Now one of the cops wanted to arrest me, the other was more understanding. I had a friend of mine drive my car home, and the officers gave me two hefty tickets. Though the nice one came up to me and told me not to worry, just go to court and it will get resolved. Btw, I was extremely nice and cooperative during the whole situation. In the end the cop was there and talked to the crown. I had to pay a reduced fine for both, but no loss of points. This was a huge win for me, and I got to say, that officer was great and understanding. Some of these guys are good people.
EXCUSES:
I have to say there is little reason as to why a judge would let you off the hook for speeding. But I can recall one incident. I was on the Allen road going towards the 401 and I was clocked at around 145 (Allen Road is an 80max). They stopped me, wrote me up a hefty ticket and sent me on my way. I explained why I was speeding, but they didn't care. Actually they didn't even offer to help in the situation.
I took it to court. The judge took a look at the ticket and noticed how fast I was going, and not even coming off the highway, but going on to it. He was not amused. I decided to plead my case. In actuality a cousin of mine called me to tell me that her ex which was just released from jail for break-in and rape was at her work. So I told her to stay calm, and that I would be there quickly. Hence the speeding.
Now for one, while there is no real excuse for speeding, claiming that someones life is on the line is a pretty damn good reason. Secondly, I pointed out that the officers failed to believe my explanation and offer any help of advice in the situation.
The ticket was excused.
EX-COPPERS:
Forget these guys, I agree. They wont help you at all. What you want is to reduce or totally get rid of any points the ticket might cause you. The ex-coppers will only avoid you paying the fine at most. You end up paying them an arm and a leg, and your insurance is still screwed.
06-25-2008, 06:09 AM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: toronto
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by LiveWire
EX-COPPERS:
Forget these guys, I agree. They wont help you at all. What you want is to reduce or totally get rid of any points the ticket might cause you. The ex-coppers will only avoid you paying the fine at most. You end up paying them an arm and a leg, and your insurance is still screwed.
Forget these guys, I agree. They wont help you at all. What you want is to reduce or totally get rid of any points the ticket might cause you. The ex-coppers will only avoid you paying the fine at most. You end up paying them an arm and a leg, and your insurance is still screwed.
06-25-2008, 06:27 AM
#11
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jasonintoronto
i think ex-coppers went bankrupt anyways
06-25-2008, 06:56 AM
#12
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,963
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i would also agree (based on my own experience) that a lot of those ticket fighting companies are utterly USELESS (not all, but most). here's my past history of tickets and the results of hiring a ticket fighter:
1. 2 tickets (4 or so years ago) - hired x-coppers
a.) speeding 94 in 60 zone
b.) driving in reserved lane
result: speeding ticket reduced to 29 over (still carried 2 points), driving in reserved lane thrown out.
comments: they probalby didn't do 2 sh*ts to fight it and just plea bargained with the prosecutor pre-trial (which i could have done myself and saved $350).
2. speeding 64 in 40 zone - hired redline legal service
result: reduced to 15 over (no points, but still a moving violation)
comments: same situation, although they said they did everything they could by requesting disclosure, analyzing the officers notes and attacking the technical aspect of the radar gun he used (if it was calibrated properly, etc.), they plea bargained as well. that's another $360 wasted.
3. unnecessary noise - fought the ticket myself
result: thrown out completely
comments: i requested the full-trial option (no plea bargaining) and scrutinized the officer's notes upon cross-examination. thankfully the JP was nice enough to understand my position and found me not guilty.
mind you, the ticket i fought is not even a moving violation (pure cash grab), so even if i was convicted, it wouldn't even affect my insurance at all. but when i was in court waiting for my turn and observing other people and their tickets, a LARGE proportion of them got off scott free by just showing up (w/o a ticket fighter) and just explaining what happened. one dude was caught speeding 85 in 60 and driving in a reserved lane and he got BOTH TICKETS thrown out because he said he swerved out of the way to avoid a bicyclist!
1. 2 tickets (4 or so years ago) - hired x-coppers
a.) speeding 94 in 60 zone
b.) driving in reserved lane
result: speeding ticket reduced to 29 over (still carried 2 points), driving in reserved lane thrown out.
comments: they probalby didn't do 2 sh*ts to fight it and just plea bargained with the prosecutor pre-trial (which i could have done myself and saved $350).
2. speeding 64 in 40 zone - hired redline legal service
result: reduced to 15 over (no points, but still a moving violation)
comments: same situation, although they said they did everything they could by requesting disclosure, analyzing the officers notes and attacking the technical aspect of the radar gun he used (if it was calibrated properly, etc.), they plea bargained as well. that's another $360 wasted.
3. unnecessary noise - fought the ticket myself
result: thrown out completely
comments: i requested the full-trial option (no plea bargaining) and scrutinized the officer's notes upon cross-examination. thankfully the JP was nice enough to understand my position and found me not guilty.
mind you, the ticket i fought is not even a moving violation (pure cash grab), so even if i was convicted, it wouldn't even affect my insurance at all. but when i was in court waiting for my turn and observing other people and their tickets, a LARGE proportion of them got off scott free by just showing up (w/o a ticket fighter) and just explaining what happened. one dude was caught speeding 85 in 60 and driving in a reserved lane and he got BOTH TICKETS thrown out because he said he swerved out of the way to avoid a bicyclist!
06-25-2008, 07:49 AM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I already found the trick to fighting speeding tickets AGES ago... lets just say i have had over 18 speeding tickets and have not been convicted ONCE. Im trying to become a cop myself so i know a few things about the system. Juss a little tip for you guys... ALWAYS choose option 3.. and when your court date comes... miss it... if you do this and then go and see a Justice of Peace and appeal your absence... most likely you will get another court date... repeat the process again... you will recieve a 3rd court date and that should be about 2 years after the ticket was given.... Cop doesnt show up as anything over a year in their books just gets destroyed.
06-25-2008, 09:05 AM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whenever i go and see the JP.. he/she asks me why i missed my court date... i simply tell them that i was writing an exam... there u go... no questions asked... its really easy.. they never say no if u explain to them that you have other things that were more important. Make sure you apologize though.
06-25-2008, 09:11 AM
#18
Originally Posted by goneinsixtyseconds
^^ i have also heard of other people using this technique. what excuse do you use when you appeal your absence from your trial date?
If you miss your date without prior notification you are found guilty. I couldn't see explaining an absence 18 times.
I also could not see getting pulled over 18 times in just a couple years of driving. Police are there to catch you but a small fraction of the times you are driving like an idiot.
I've been pulled over 3 times for about 20 over the limit in 11 years. I'm very polite and respectful since my dad has been a police officer 25 years. I never make excuses, never try to weasel out of it. I've been given all 3 tickets. No warnings.
I went straight home and paid them online. Cost more to fight them than pay was my excuse. I will fight the next ticket I get tooth and nail. They've got their extra taxes out of me already.
06-25-2008, 10:07 AM
#19
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,963
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2TH PWR
I've heard this does not work. I will have to ask my dad.
If you miss your date without prior notification you are found guilty. I couldn't see explaining an absence 18 times.
If you miss your date without prior notification you are found guilty. I couldn't see explaining an absence 18 times.
06-25-2008, 11:43 AM
#20
Originally Posted by IVRY PRL
You wrote earlier that they use laser, not radar here. Is that a fact? Why are radar detectors banned then? Is it just a remnant from when they used to use them?
I'm just curious btw, I'm not trying to disprove anything you said. I've wanted to get one for some time (yea, I know they're illegal), but if it's gonna be useless too, there's no point.
I'm just curious btw, I'm not trying to disprove anything you said. I've wanted to get one for some time (yea, I know they're illegal), but if it's gonna be useless too, there's no point.
I don't know much about radar detectors and what they can/ can't do. Before my trial though, I had read a couple times how radar is not used in Ontario and how it's all laser (lidar). This was confirmed while watching trials. An officer will specifically mention using laser. He will have your speed written down along with the distance between you and the officer.