The only way I would do forced induction would be to build my engine. This would equal out to about 10 grand.

The stroker kit if it generates enough power seems like the way to go. I have seen no figures for projected power. Does anyone know what one can expect to gain by installing the stroker kit??

Also would this be reliable? Could I stroke the engine and have it be reliable?

I know I know whenever you mod your car you risk shorter engine life so please dont give me an answer along those lines.
Id like to hear from someone who knows about engines. Not somebody pretending to know.

Can I add significant power and still have a daily driver?????

 

good thing about stroker kits is they make your engine bulletproof, but are you going to need it? What HP numbers are you looking for at the wheels? 600 or less and I would not even begin to think about a stroker kit. If you feel uncomfortable about your engine block strength you could get darton sleeves... but I haven't chosen that route with my engine.. and I dont think many others have either...

All you should need up to that number is forged rods and pistons, an engine block that is prepared using a torque plate when it is bored for the new pistons, and the camshaft and crankshaft sensor wire fix, contact phunk or gq_626..

If you leave the turbo kit at its stock boost setting that will be all you will need for a reliable daily driver, all the turbo kits have everything else they will need for the stock power they deliver.. besides a BOV for the greddy kit.. which i think is necessary.. but thats my opinion.

If you adjust or want to turn up boost further than stock... you will need to adress timing and fuel... this is where it starts to cost mega-bucks.... I'd suggest for starters to go with the APS kit and a built engine... a better clutch, get rid of your cats and get a good cat-back exhaust... tune it and you should be well in the 400+ WHP range probably more than 450...

Above stock boost you may need to buy stronger clutches/flywheels, bigger injectors, stiffer springs for your BOV and Wastegates, fuel return systems... timing will become very critical as will fuel delivery...

Above 600WHP id go for a resleeving maybe... supposedly our stock ones are pretty damn strong... ive seen them in person they are thick.. go for some headwork otherwise you'd probably start getting to the point where your turbos are maxing out.. and you would need larger ones... which would cost you even more for custom fab work...

Don't even go for the AEBS unless you are going to race all the time... its meant for mega-power to the point where you probably wouldn't even be able to control your car on the road... it would be complete overkill for your engine and you would probably have to overhaul your engine anyway for other parts before that... so its not really going to save you any money in the long run..

you have less coolant to your cylinders with the closed deck setup so you'll have higher operating temps in your engine.. which sucks if you want to use pump gas... because of pre-ignition and detonation.

My opinion... unless you're going to put a parachute on the back of your car... you dont need this... the amount of time, money, and value is not worth it..

 

Alot of good info..... thank you.

I was actually considering the stroker kit without FI. Does it generate any power on its own or is it meant for FI?

Thanks in advance

 

hmm well the bigger bores and the longer stroke will increase HP... but from i heard i think this kit will make about 400HP and I dont think that is WHP... with some other work with the heads, intakes exhaust and headers yeah you might be able to get some good power.... but when you really look at it... why? Thats going to cost you thousands of dollars more... take a look at it this way..

Stroker kit 8000... i think...
Oversize valves springs and retainers, 1200
Camshafts 1200 if you want them
Headers... i dunno maybe 1000???? dont know
updated ECU and fuel system including fuel injectors about 2k

Turbo kit... say greddy... under 6000 ( comes with everything)
forged rods and pistons... 2000

I added the fuel system and stuff to thhe other parts becuase you are definatley going to need larger ones and a ECU reflash.. as to where the turbo kit price comes with everything else you need... I am sure there are other things in the NA setup i missed... besides things you would get for both cars... like clutch an stuff...

evel leaving stuff out... you are paying a killing more not only for parts... but for the labor you will need to install the stuff for the stroker kit and to do all the headwork the latter of which is going to be in excess of $1500... so total up basic real quick

15,000 for a car that can produce 400 or so HP...
or 8000 for a car that can produce close to 500 HP before you need upgrades... and its really only the fuel system/timing issue and it could take you up to over 700HP before you really need to worry about the engine.... (those numbers for both price and HP are verly loose estimates, only meant to show you my point)...

Just go turbo... spend the extra cash you would have on the na stuff on redundancies and safety mechanisms for the turbo kit.. overall its much better... unless you really need that steady torque curve... remember we have a japanese car... not a musclecar... its in its blood to have turbos... LOL... or as i call it with twin turbos,. A pair of testacles...

It just sounds better too... pssht or phwee or whatever sound you make from your BOV..

i dont really think that many people would use this block unless they were going to go FI... on a cost/effectiveness level... but if money is not a concern... then i guess... i guess.............. its ok then.... but seriously if you go that route and want some power that the FI kits are already putting out.... plan on over 20000... seriously...

 

Or he could get a Turbonetics kit, which is even cheaper and have $2k more for other mods.

 

oh i hope to clarify this for you too.. looks something like it was one of the original questions you asked..

No you cannot just put in a stroker kit and go... the amount of labor is much more.. so you lost out in price there.. and in terms of reliability ( which i am sure others would agree on) if you had to choose specifically between a car with a stroker kit and no turbo... or a turbo without a built engine... i would choose the turbo without the built engine... stock boosts are relatively safe and you dont have to mess with your engine where thousands of things can go wrong if the engine builder is lazy or has never worked on that engine. With a stroker kit you also have the possibility of the sleeves moving or sinking... which would suck..

with the other costs needed for fuel delivery and either an ECU reflash or even a stand alone fuel system... your loosing out even more..

If you look at the car type (race car) on AEBS website.. thats they type or car you should have if you want to use this kit... like i said before a car with a parachute on the back.

Daily driving and extended hard driving will probably not be good for the engine due to less coolant delivery, making it less reliable.

Tell you what... tell me what your looking for... HP number wise and I could tell you what I think would be the cheapest and most reliable system... without the cheapness affecting reliability. its really the number you tell me that can change the opinions behind what system i recommend between even superchargers or turbos... just tell me exactly what your looking for.. and ill do my best...

If you think this will take the thread too off topic then just PM me... unless anyone else wants my thoughts and doesnt mind me posting it up here

 

I don't mind if you get off topic. I'll just change the title of the thread.

 

haha.. cool..

you should put a new description in your name like

""MOD-OR-A-TOR"" with a picutre of Conan the barbarian or something... or the hulk..

cause we dont want to see you angry...

do we?

 

The only thing that would make me angry is if I had a similar experience ZRAYGO had.










BTW, i've talked to the admin, he hasn't got around to putting the "moderator" stuff under my name yet. I'm glad the Modifications/Technical section finally has a moderator though!

 

That is what I wanted to know. Thanks for your time, I do appreciate it!

 

What I am about to suggest would cost more than the stroker kit and make less power but its a "staged" buildup (and its kindof a half baked idea to begin with)

one more thing this is for the NA / sleeper guys that dont need alot of bling lol the only things you might see on this build up are the intake and the exaust tips

try this combo

11.5 CR pistons $980

TS reflash $600

rod bolts $ 250

tilton semi street $1500

optional...clutch type lsd $1000

should be over 320 to the wheels act like 370 to the wheels and will get you more races than a damn tt kit lol. (also get DR's or a set of sticky tires this car will have no problem turning your stock bridgestones into goo)

if you have the cash i might suggest

tomei cams 268 $1400

evo 3.90 $1000

Jwt spring kit for cams $300

PnP the heads maybe go bigger on the exaust valve $1.5k

And another reflash to take the Rev limit to 7.5k $125

put you around 350+ to the wheels and still not a sign that anything out of the ordinary was going on.

(btw this is with all boltons done AKA full exaust + all intake mods done {including plenum or spacer})

after this it gets into straight race stuff ITB's custom plenum, bump the CR to 12:1 or higher then you run race gas and all that other fun stuff.

 

I still dont really understand the need to have an NA setup if FI can run you so much cheaper and you dont have to mess with the engine...

What you just mentioned totaled $8800 without labor...
To take out your engine is going to cost you a fortune... to do all the work.. you mentioned some of the price... then to put it back in is going to cost you a fortune then as well... and on top of it... someone messed with your engine.. so your looking at around 13,000 at least to go NA and push 350WHP?

I spent 6000 for my greddy kit 180 for test pipes and (I got the install pretty cheap) but say even 2000 for install and your looking at 8200 for 355WHP at stock boost.... 4 grand less...

You could take that 4 grand and use it to do whatever with... even if you want... put in stronger rods and pistons and push way more than the NA setup for the same price... or if you dont want to go into the engine... then buy a lightweight clutch and flywheel and a big exhaust and an U/D pulley and youre probably looking close to 400WHP for still less than 13000.... and your engine hasnt been messed with...

While the TT's can have thier flaws with blown engines... it seems like many of these problems are being diagnosed and companies are taking steps to create solutions... ie.. crank sensor wire...
I'm sure within the next year you could easily have a highly reliable TT setup hitting 400WHP.. on a stock engine...

I have always wondered ( NA guys dont flame me.... just let me know) why spend that extra money to go NA... and get less power?

 

You just said that this setup would get you 320 HP at the wheels.

How? Would those pistons involve boring out the block? If that is right then that is indeed cost effective!

plus you sub the JWT clutch flywheel setup for the tilton and you save 700 bux.

Can you really get 320 HP from the above combo???

In this terrain you would have decent power and reliability that fi does not have. Am I wrong?

 

any time you change pistons you need to do some work on the cyliner walls to make sure they are completely flat...

Thats what i meant by someone not messing with your engine... they could screw that up... but i shouldnt really talk... lol... cause im having that done on my engine.. but i know the risks..

Heres what I think you should get if you just want to slap on some power and not worry about turbos or any other kind of BS that could mess with your engine....

Some kind of upgraded Air Intake... 5whp
Upgraded Plenum - 10whp
Lightwieght Pully- 5whp
350evo's throttle... opens 100% vs. 80% stock or so they say..5whp
Lightest clutch and flywheel you can find- 25whp
Get rid of you cats and go with a down pipe - 15whp
Get the best flowing exhaust you can find... forget about sound. - 8 whp
Run straight race gas and raise your redline to at least 7000k - 30whp
Get a tune on race gas and as high an A/F ratio as the tuner feels comfortable with you running.... remember you cant use pump gas anymore...
Lighter rims and tires - 5-10 whp

total around adding 100-120whp (roughly) you'd have to check out what the products claim to get a more accurate amount... but this will give you some idea as to where they could put you... the biggest players are the flywheel/clutch, cats/exhaust, and the tuning/racegas...

With this you should be near 320WHP at least 300 i would say and you dont have to do anything with your engine or do anything with forced induction and you'll save thousands and thousands on labor... hey you could even do just about everything yourself...saving even more on labor... if you are ok with around 320whp give or take then this is probably the best way to go... dont get involved with FI or doing anything with your engine if you dont have to... if your power goals arent higher than that there is no need to go there.... anyone who knows how to use a ratchet can do most of this work... once you get involved with engine work its like an art...

What goals are you looking for... if this is ok... then i'll do some reasearch and see what kind of money you'd be spending and what kind of gains and final HP you'd be getting.. a little better than the rough numbers i just threw up there...

so what are your goals?
Thats what you should know first.... it will make everything much easier for you if you figure out your number...

I was just like you and wanted the AEBS kit on my car for safety, then i learned how much i didnt need it... you could probably even do a search from a while ago and find the posts i did asking about them just like you LOL...

 

SGP Racing is using a torque plate on your block though, I trust 'em.

 

I Personally wouldnt go with the stroker kit for reliability. I also wouldnt think about trying to get 500rwhp with just a turbo kit. First off the rods and the rod studs just dont see strong enough. 400rwhp maybe. I have seen a ton of posts with people who blew their engines running 400rwhp with turbo kits running from 7-8 psi. I dont remember the exact link. If you are looking for a car that is going to put somewhere up to 600rwhp you are probably looking to put around 18k minimum into it.
Things you might need:
Built Engine 7-8k
Turbo Kit 4500 min.
Suspension to hold the power 2200
Clutch thats able to hold the power 1k
Stand Alone Fuel Management 2k
Roughly 17.7k not installed
Also thats without exhaust or any "bolt on's"
Sorry but this stuff isnt cheap.

I might be involved in a company that would be building blocks up. We would try to keep it as cheap as possible. We would have to charge a core though to keep it cheaper. We are going to price one out and start the build and dyno process next month. I will be telling you some rough details as well as showing you the dyno chart.

Sorry for the Hijack. Just something to think about it we can get the motors built right for the right price.