thawk408

iTrader: (16)

Built motor and APS (maybe Greddy) is coming. Just have no clue when.

Nano

iTrader: (1)

that is not necessarily true

it already has more aggressive cams, and almost everything from intake to exhaust has been improved. If you saw 40rwhp with everysingle bolt on on the 287hp engine, you might see 20-30 on the 300hp engine with same mods. Actually, the only worthwhile mods I see freeing up some power are test-pipes, flywheel, crank pulley and that's about it.

It's still the same engine

the VQ35DE on the G35, altima and maxima all capped more or less the same as the Z. It's not because it has more power stock it will produce more at the end of the line.

spending lot's of money for an exhaust, more aggressive cams, intake and crap like that imho is colossal waste of money for the small gains you will see on this engine. (already most of that stuff has laughable gainst on the 287hp engine).

The absolute best mods on this engine NA(and the only ones I would do) are the 3.9 final drive and tilton street setup.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

the only real advantage the 05 track engine has that the normal engine doesn't have that can't be easily added is the exhaust variable valve timing - the ECU is probably specifically progrogrammed to do that and it starts getting hairy trying to add that specific feature to the normal engine.

Otherwise everything else that's been changed isn't that big of a deal that you couldn't do via bolt on parts and ECU flash etc

Camel

I agree, for people buying a new Z with the 300hp configuration it's nice to have the new setup already. One of my main goals in buying this particular car was to buy something I didn't feel I had to modify. Sure, I wish the car was faster, etc... we all do, but I didn't want to travel the same path I did with my WRX: sink a ton of money into it and ultimately flush it down the toilet. It was fun, but didn't want to do that again.

Perhaps after a few more miles I'll take the 35th over to Modern Garage here in SLC and have it dynoed. It seems like the community would like to see that data. It has a Nismo intake that was already installed when I bought it, but otherwise she's stock...

MidNiteZ

What exactly do you need to get VVT on the exhaust side on a 287 motor?

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

you mean VTC?

I don't think you can get it - the ECU would have to have the same programming that the 05's have to know how to use it - or wouldn't it? I don't see that happening. You'll probably need a brand new ECU and keys - which won't happen cause with those things it'd be easy to steel a Z.

thawk408

iTrader: (16)

It is quite possible to get 300rwhp from this motor. The big helping factor is the VTC on the exhaust side. I have talked to Doug at Crawford Z and I might take it to him for some experimenting. I am going to add his plenum and an exhaust and see how much power I pick up. This will help to show how NA mods are going to take to this engine.

rednezz

iTrader: (1)

The VTC on the exhaust side I am sure is going to really help on the bolt on mods. You can see how the VTC helps when you look at the dyno chart.

Nano

iTrader: (1)

All I'm saying is that if you start modding the VQ, the difference will thin out. I really don't believe the track VQ will produce the same gains with same boltons. VTC or not.

Anyway, until you dyno the car with other stuff, it's just speculation.

Just like the 350z VQ(287hp) engine doesn't produce the same gains as the altima VQ engine.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

well I think the VTC gives the 05 track engine greater potential by whatever hp (guessing 5-20 depending on just how much power you're pushing - as in NA or FI)

the variable valve timing I only see as being better than not having it. But it's not going to be all that big of a deal by itself.

For a stock car, the 05 track engine is really nice - already somewhat "modded" compared to the stock engine

MidNiteZ

Thanks for the reply sentry.

I remember there was a thread by Jason from Performance Nissan where he listed all the new parts on the new (300 HP) motor. I just don't remember all the parts that you need to add VTC on the exhaust side. I'm not quite sure on the labour cost of installing these parts and if they justify the gains, but i'm interested in finding out.

The reason why i'm curious is that having VTC on both sides seems to make a huge difference. If you look at the K20 series the the RSX and compare the base model with the type-S, there is a quite significant difference in power potential.

I'm just wondering how much of a difference it's going to make on the VQ. If you compare the dyno the Performance Nissan did with an 03/04 with the new 05 lower intake plenum you'll see that both power and torque is lost throughout the entire power band until 6000 rpm whereas on the dyno of an 05 Track does not show the same loss of torque.

Could this be from the addition of VTC on exhaust side since there weren't many other significant changes besides the higher redline?

MidNiteZ

BTW. Since most 03/04's average about 235 on a dynojet and the 05 Track is getting 255, i think we have a case of "drivetrain gain" =P. 13 flywheel HP = 20 WHP!

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

I think I heard it would be like $5000 to upgrade to VTC (if it's possible with the ECU etc) - not worth it for it's fairly small gains by itself

that dyno that jason did - the torque loss is probably from a combination of not having the VTC and having the older cams - remember the 05 track engine got new cams as well - probably not as good as the JWT, nismo, or tomei cams though...

If the 05 track engine were such a better platform for modding, I'd be trading in my Z for one. But as it stands, it's about the same for normal driving and gets about 6% more power in the upper rpm's - stock

Like Nano was saying, in the case of upgrading cams, you're going to get less of a power increase than someone with the standard engine upgrading their cams. That's just because the 05 track engine has more aggressive cams than the stock older ones.

If you plan on FI, it kinda doesn't matter what engine you end up using - you're going to gut the engine anyway and upgrade all the internals. The VTC MIGHT be capable of giving you up to 20 or so HP with FI. For NA though, maybe 5 HP

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Not really fair to compare all of the earlier dyno's to just this one dyno. Maybe he has a stronger 300 hp motor, maybe his is weak, or maybe it will fall in the "average" range-we need more 05' Track/35th anniversary dyno's before we start coming to conclusions that they will put out about 20 more whp...

xephiron

actually, 13 flywheel HP would equal more like 10 RWHP it decreases through the drivetrain. just an FYI

Basically, don't mod the engine IMO Do intake and exhaust work, but nothing internal because when you crate in the new TT from the R35 you won't need the old engine hehe

Then we can talk about 500 RWHP under warranty, for probably less than the cost of buying, installing, and tuning an APS or Greddy TT, etc. and end up with 400 RWHP, no warranty.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

jason has a lot of mods

If I remember right, on that dyno he had

JWT popcharger
05 lower plenum
DC headers
nismo exhaust
tilton clutch/flywheel
UR pulley.

So on his particular car on that particular day at that particular dyno using his particular tank of gas at that particular temperature with that particular dyno fan setting with his particular setup he lost a lot of torque.

Later he said it seemed like the ECU was adjusted better to it. He's also getting a TS ECU flash - not to mention his rev to 8000 project he has planned out.

I agree though that that sorta loss of torque he had was too much to write it off as dyno weirdness

Brandon@Forged

Nissan would warranty a R35 engine? Don't think so...not swapped from an R35 to a 350Z...

Nano

iTrader: (1)

assuming a-the dyno are the same and b-that thawk408's car is in the average (which a- is fasles and b- we don't know yet.. so what follows is kind of pointless )

235 from 287 = 18% drivetrain loss
255 from 300 = 15% drivetrain loss

either the 287 engine is overrated(from ~277 at 15% drivetrain loss) or
the 300hp engine is underrated (from ~311 at 18% drivetrain loss)

honestly, I do believe from what I have seen on lot's of dyno's, that the 287 engine is overrated a bit.

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

Or neither. Who decided that 235whp was the "average" for 03-04 cars and who decided that the ONE 255rwhp dyno was "average" for 300hp 05 cars??

I've seen anywhere from 220whp to 255whp for 03-04 cars...and the majority are in the low 240s...which with 15% drivetrain loss would put them 03-04 cars right around 287hp at the crank.

Lets get some more 05 numbers before we go calling the 03-04 car overrated or the new one underrated.

Brandon@Forged

I agree regarding rwhp numbers for 287hp models...average 350Z on a dynojet on the east coast will do ~240rwhp.