I dunno about you guys! Sounds like your all trying to justify not having FI. I know alot of people with FI Z's and they are sweet. They handle fine too. I dont know one of them that would want to go back to NA.

 

I figure, in the end major NA vs major FI will cost the same

assuming you already add all of the normal bolt on parts, rough guesses:


FI
built engine core swap $5000
engine removal and install labor $2000
APS kit $7000
turbo install and misc $3000
cams and install $2000
upgraded valves/springs $1000
intake manifold (such as kinetix SSV and install) $1000 (rounding up)
50-75 shot of nitrous with install and all hardware $2000
tuning $1000
carbon clutch $2000
EMS and install $3000
= $29000

around 550 whp w/pump gas
625 whp w/nitrous
possibly more power if tuned with race gas

30-40 lbs added to front of car
15 lbs added to rear of car

pros:
turbo sound
God-like amounts of power always available at any given moment
There's more aftermarket hardware in plain view in the engine bay
you can buy this setup right now

cons:
lag
heat
more touchy on a road coarse
adding a bit of weight to the front of the car
God-like amounts of power always available at any given moment - police tickets


for NA
built up, high compression engine $5000
engine removal and install $2000
individual throttle bodies $5000
head work, aggressive cams, better valves/springs $5000
high strength crankshaft and install $3000
150-200 shot of nitrous with install and all hardware $2000
fuel system, fuel pump, injectors, install $2000
tuning $1000
carbon clutch $2000
EMS and install $3000
= $30000

around 390 whp w/pump and/or race gas
590 whp w/nitrous with race gas

15 lbs added to rear of car

pros:
amazing sound
linear, predictable, and instant - almost psychic throttle response
better weight distribution
doesn't run as hot as a turbo


cons:
slightly more expensive
LOUD - attracts attention from cops easily
not all the parts are available just yet




both cars will be beasts, but drive and sound very different. They'll probably be about the same in the 1/4 mile. Even though the NA car with 200 shot of nitrous has lower overall hp, it'll have TONS of torque because of such a huge shot of nitrous

and as always, you can push any of these cars to have more power via more nitrous or more boost, but I figure these would be the average power numbers

 

I'd rather have this with rwd power than awd. The ability to dial in slip percentage is attractive to me. Anyone out ther have first hand experience with this system?

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/traction/

 

Remember a 390 whp NA beast and a 500 whp boost hog can en up with the same 1/4 miles times. All motor power is linear. Although the extra advantage of the NA car is it would be easier around a road course.

But between the two? It's a hard choice.

 

Someone will probably point out the AEBS 4.3 stroker kit

the stroker kit sounds very tempting as well, but it has some potential problems
because it's a closed deck design, it doen't cool as well as other sleeves would

then also because it's stroked so much, there's going to be a lot more heat/friction in the middle of the cylinder.

You'd still need an EMS to control it, as well as a new fuel system
the parts alone are $8000, if you want AEBS to actually do the work, that costs more, then you gotta pay to have your engine taken out and the new one put in, then there's tuning

In the end, with JUST the stroker kit and the above hardware , you're probably still looking at around $19-20k

so it'll cost about $4k more than a normal built engine since you won't need the nismo crankshaft I listed. That isn't much more money considering the extra power it makes, but...

This is just my opinion, but I don't think the stroker kit is worth it because it's so expensive, and can potentially run hotter than a normal NA engine. If you did long extended track events, you could run into problems eventually, and when you do, that's a $12000 block that's having an issue, not a $5000 one (not counting the cost of a stock core block in either case)

Also, you can't rev it as high as you could on a more normal NA set up. You can try putting in super aggressive cams on a stroker kit, but it'll do you little good if you can't rev much higher than the stock redline. With the NA parts I listed, you could potentially rev to 8000rpm's and make power up that high because of cams

the stroker kit is worth it IMO if you drag race and want more low end torque and power for reletivly short WOT runs.

 

FI and NA have their benefits. However, with the VQ35DE you are looking at a fairly serious operation if going FI. One member commented on paying 30k for his complete, no worries, FI setup and I believe this is 100% on the mark. This motor needs to be built if you plan on pushing your FI car like you would from the factory... Con Rods, Pistons, Bolts, Installation of all these goodies = MONEY and lots of it. Of course there are other options like the HKS supercharger but it is suggested you have little to no upgrades with this. It is my argument that our motor was not made for boost. There is only so far HP can take you, and there will always be someone faster in a straight line. I could definetly imagine someone dumping insane money into their Z and being beat by some kid with a built up B18 in a CRX, drag is all about how much money you wanna dump into your car so you can go straight. With NA you can do the build up piece by piece with less down time and come out with a reasonably quick track car or weekend racer. 300-320rwhp is nothing to scoff at, and I believe the 300rwhp NA number came about awhile back with Crawford products and Cams... Imagine what the new Intake Manifold solutions could hold.

And no, I'm not a turbo hater. I geniunely considered boost for my Z at first but it just doesn't seem feasible from a reliability standpoint. However, my next project car, a Turbo FC3S, should be a fun time.

 

yeah I agree, that's another reason I like the upgrade path of NA

for the big NA power stuff I listed

you can throw on those ITB's at any time (assuming they come out) and as long as you have an EMS and new fuel system, it shouldn't be too expensive for that mod. $5-6k is way easier to digest than a huge $20-30k lump

You can divide up the NA engine into 3 major areas that can be upgraded in any order at any time
- individual throttlebodies
- heads, cams, valves
- block

The biggest NA cost would be the engine build up with the cost of removing and installing the engine along with possibly the stronger crankshaft. That'll set you back, but will enable you to run major nitrous for drag racing via direct port

Also, chances are (depends on a lot of things) the NA engine will last longer than the FI one.

It runs on itself, then when you use the nitrous, you actually cool the engine.

with the turbos, you're always pumping in pretty warm/hot air back into the engine every time you get into the boost. Combine that with running huge amounts of power and it's probably going to wear faster - just the way it is

 

Doesn't Nismo or maybe even Esprit have a crate engine that was around 450hp? That would be really nice.

 

WRT the con for FI = lag

The few TT Z/Gs I have experienced exhibit miniscule lag. Throttle response is nearly instant.

 

With drag slicks it's no contest, the 500rwhp eats the NA setup alive in the 1/4.

 

"Power is nothing without control"
-Pirelli

 

I can't see how this is true. Example: Phunk has a built motor and greddy tt and just ran a 1/4 time of 11.7 at 522rwhp and he missed a gear. The new Z06 is supposed to run the same time with 500rwhp.

 

did those cars have a stock engine with the 10.3 pistons? or were they running 8.5 or 8.5 CR?

I know that if you're track driving or drag racing, you're always in the boost range and that on the Z, boost seems to kick in at or a little before 4k rpms.

Generally, the more boost you make, and the lower your CR, the more the lag or "difference" of the powerband curve is exagerated. If you're driving along normal, take your foot off the gas, then floor it in a FI car, there's a lot more intake tubing the air has to run thru. Even though the turbos (or SC) force it thru faster, it can still take just a little bit of time (fractions of a sec) to spool up the turbos.

even though it might be fractions of a second, with you're competing for fractions of seconds and timing is critical for when you hit the brakes, when you turn, etc, it becomes a bigger deal. Out on the street probably isn't so important cause you never get going THAT fast (or risk tickets/jail)

ITB's and high compression pistons would have a faster throttle response. That's just the way it is.

 

It's about "both" traction and power. Phunk needs to improve traction to lower ET, the power is there.

 

You know, with all the power some of you turbo guys are making, I've yet to hear of a snapped axle. Happened all the time to the Cobra owners that go FI with the IRS...one of the principle reasons the new Mustang came with a solid rear axle. But I guess you see a lot more of them at the 1320 on slicks than Zs!

 

correction:

the Z06 will do that time with 500 CRANK hp, not whp

there's more power in the entire power band instead of mainly at top

 

that's probably true, but with a built up NA, you can run a big nitrous shot

how would the 500rwhp FI Z do on a road coarse though?


...it's all about how you want the car setup with it's strength's and weaknesses

A drift or autocross car cares nothing about peak hp, just low end torque/power

 

which one of these is the "better" power curve?

depends on what type of driving you do

 

Above 2500rpm , most of the TT setups are 100% spooled. Throttle response
at 10.3 and 9.0 above 2500rpm is extremely good.

 

I agree, there is nothing like a drive/ride on a 350Z with FI. When I give people rides they get out like kids that just got ride on the latest rollercoaster ride at Disney.