i'm sure a FI Z is nice - no doubt

but there's also nothing like taking someone out as passenger to a road coarse taking turns really fast because of the predictable powerband and they get out feeling like a kid on a rollorcoaster...

How do you like your G's?

pushed back, or pushed sideways?

 

I think the power comparison of N/A w/ Nitrous vs. F/I like the TT isn't relavant at all for any venue other than the 1/4 mile. Even in the 1/4 mile, if the two cars crossed the line at the same time, the N/A car has an empty tank and is basically out of power. The F/I car can just drive back to staging for another run. Nitrous, while it's performance gains are noteable, is highly impractical unless your car is only for straight-track use. That eliminates it as a power solution for 99 % of us who want the power available on the street or on the road-course.

Somebody mention what power an N/A car is making without the spray, and then let's continue this discussion.

 

So you're saying that an F/I Z is slower in turns than an N/A Z because it has more power? Just because it's there, it doesn't mean you have to use it. The F/I Z should be able to take the same turn at the same speed, but the exit of the corner becomes a whole different story.

I've never seen lateral G capabilities discussed in regards to F/I, and I believe that's because it's not a factor that differentiates it from an N/A setup.

 

you can get 5-6 (I'd do 5 to keep things safe) 200shot runs on a 10 lb bottle

can get even more runs if you happen to have more bottles with you....

when you add up the costs at the end of the day, nitrous isn't that expensive for drag racing...

if you were talking about regular fuel consumption, I'm not sure how much the gas mileage would vary between the two

obviously with FI, you'd have to change your fluids more often because of the heat.

I think the total costs would be about even for track or drag events

 

I have done the roadcourse before the TT's and can't really see where the TT will make the car harder to run the course based on how it drives now, the only times it steps out is if I smash the pedal hard which I didn't do on the track as it would step out anyway, TT or no TT, you still have to ease on the gas.

 

I don't know of a single NA Z that is over 300rwhp let alone 390. Does anyone on this forum have one?

 

Yeah, did not think of that. Never mind....

 

not yet since all the necessary NA parts to do that much power are not out yet.

But right now you could get higher compresion pistons, rods, rod bolts, better valves/springs, nismo crankshaft, nismo R cams, head work, rev up to 8000rpm's, with a stand alone EMS, i'm guessing you could make 340ish whp

 

The idealistic comparison doesn't really work for me. Firstly, the NA car that is built to 390whp doesn't exist but even if it did it is not really any different than a car with a Vortech or ATI SC. They put out 350 to 400whp. So I don't really understand the argument. They are very driveable and controllable.
In any case lets be real here. There is no NA Z putting down 390whp and who knows when or if ever there will be. FI solutions are real now. So at least for now there really is no comparison.

 

I'll give you that the bottle is good for more than one run in a row....

My real point is that I can take an F/I solution on the street and the road course and the power is there when I need it. With the Nitrous required to generate anywhere near comparable power, it's good for one or two laps, and isn't applicable for street use. I'm sure it's fun, for me it just isn't practical enough to be considered "a solution" to the power problem.

As for how F/I affects the car in other ways. It's power, simply that and nothing more (except for a LITTLE extra weight). So IMHO, the argument that it takes away from the joy of driving the car doesn't make sense. It just means that the power to pedal-movement scale is a little steeper.

 

yeah I agree. But why do you need 550whp on the street? Do you really care about smoking that Z06 or viper at stoplights or the highway that much?

For me, I have enough speeding tickets. The nitrous isn't ideal for road coarses unless you do a small shot and count on using a bottle each session. I'd actually get more satisfaction knowing I could kill thta Z06 or viper that pulls up beside me without actually doing it. Why race them if you are 90% sure you'd win anyway? With a 200 shot of NX nitrous, that's about 250 crank hp or so. Any sort of insane high power NA Z, be it 390 whp or 360whp is going to be like 400-450 crank hp. So that's around 650-700 crank hp with the crazy amounts of torque that nitrous gives you. That'll safely kill any production car short of costing over $300k.

If it turns out that Z06 or viper is modded, then God help you if you did decide to race one on the street with your modded Z. That's all the public needs, two 10 or 11 sec cars racing on public roads.

So I don't care about having 650-700 of power on the street. I draw enough attention to myself as is with just my NA mods to know I don't need that much power. 100-150 more hp would be nice, but 300 more is getting crazy for me.

People drive differently on the track/drag strip anyway. If you're that serious about drag racing, chances are you're using slicks or drag radials which you'd never use on the street. If you're going to the trouble to change tires to make the car drive differently, and launching at high rpm's etc, what's the big deal with putting on your "superman" outfit so to speak with the nitrous?

If I did decide I wanted 700 hp on the street, then went to the drag strip, wouldn't that seem a little boring compared to if you normally drove around with 400-450 hp, then went to the strip with 700?

with a turbo, yes you get your powe on tap at any give place or time, but you're also wearing out your turbo and engine at any given point and time cause the turbo is ON the car and is running. You may or may not run into the boost all the time, but if boost comes on at 2500 rpm's, that's hard to stay out of boost.

with NA and nitrous, you wear out the engine when you decide to use it.


I don't think one is better or worse than the other really. I think I'd be happy with whichever scenerio.

For me, I live in AZ where summers can reach 120 degrees and just normal driving on the streets is pretty amazing normal cars are able to drive. Taking a FI car to the track in that heat is asking for it IMO for where I live...



and yes I know there's no 390whp Z out there yet. But is it impossible? Who has the crystal ball and can tell us about all the parts that may or may not come out for the Z? I think the Z's largest hurdle is the ECU and that's chocking all NA mods after you reach a certain point - say 275 whp? or so?

everyone interested in NA should be reading this thread here:
https://my350z.com/forum/tuning/119243-any-current-ts-reflash-experiences.html

and should have already read this one here:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....engineer+phone

I believe when the ECU situation is figured out (using a standalone EMS like the HKS Fcon V pro along with upgraded fuel system) the NA Z's will start coming to life.

We'll find out in the next few months. At least I myself am going to personally upgrade to a EMS and the fuel system to bypass the ECU's emissions readings. We'll see how much power that makes. On my car it could be 10 crank hp or it could be 40 crank hp. No one knows....

 

Absolutely not true. I HAD an F/I system. I can easily go out and have another kit installed into my car with a full internal upgrade as well, and there is no denying that the acceleration will be completely thrilling. I really find THIS CAR to be more enjoyable overall in NA form. Maybe part of it for me is that I've done the massive power thing already. The Z is just a different experience for me. Different but great in its own way.

 

I'd like a crate engine. That would be nice and easy :P

 

I have got to say, take a look at Best Motoring International videos. The Togue battle segments are an awesome testimony to the power and utility of NA. When you are barreling down a mountain road in your Skyline GT-R and are beaten by Tsuchiya's AE86 you will know the true power of NA. In BMI, the footwork is shown all the time in a small window. Keiichi Tsuchiya can stomp on the gas constantly from start to finish of a turn with his little 190whp Hachi-Roku and it sounds freaking amazing (ITBs and Cams... YES) But, let me be clear when I say there is no BETTER option. It's all in the eyes of the beholder, if you have 30k to spend and want a no-compromises high-HP bruiser then you cant beat FI. If you are on more of a budget and want street/auto-x usable power you can spend 15k and have a very fun to drive Z.

More info on BMI: http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/

 

But you are comparing different cars here the the talk is of an NA or FI 350Z, compare the 300ZX NA and TT and see which one people would prefer to have. The 350Z with the same handling would be better in FI form, I don't understand why people are making it sound like it is such an undriveable car compared to the NA, you don't lose the handling just have to learn how to handle the throtle.

 

I can accept "it's a matter of preference", but to say that the 350z would be "better" in FI form is inacurate. Better how? Given equal HP output, i'd rather have the linearity of NA. It would just plain be easier.

 

OK you are right, so when you get a 400 RWHP NA 350Z look me up.

 

The new Z06 has 500 hp to the crank and phunk probably wasn't running street tires.

 

No need for sarcasm. If your definition of "better" is that the FI HP/$ is cheaper, then I would agree, FI is "better". But weren't we talking about track performance?

 

Yes, and I don't see why the NA Z will out handle the FI Z but I do see that the FI Z will be long gone down the straights. I think people are making more of the turbo boost kicking in than they should. I wish we could get "racin" to chime in here he races his 350Z with a PE TT kit and does very well.

Here is a pic.