People are missing my point a bit. I am not in any way talking about sheer speed here. That is a no-brainer. FI wins, hands down. Although no one can deny that speed in a sports car is cartainly a significant component of the enjoyment, faster isn't always necessarily the most fun. You can drive a boosted Z at 6/10, worrying about your control of the vehicle, or you can drive your NA Z at 10/10, throwing caution to the wind, and just having a blast.

Take a look at two extremes: A Mustang Cobra with a reconfigured ECU running 500hp and a Honda S2000. I have driven both. The S2000 is more fun overall. What is the MOST FUN car I have ever driven.....A Porsche 911 Turbo. Phenomenal dynamics, lots of torque and the drivetrain to put in down on the pavement.

 

Again apples and oranges, if the Cobra had the handling of the S2000 I am sure you would pick the Cobra. My point is that by putting FI in a 350Z you still have the handling of the 350Z but the additional power.

 

true, but no linear hp/tq curve. That's the whole argument.

And FI, when mated to the right engine, can make a linear curve. Take a look at the Force Fed elise. THe turbo they mated with the Celica engine actually made the hp/tq curve MORE linear!

The problem with FI is, that alot of companies don't always design Fi to particularly compliment the engine it's working with (in regards to linearity). The APS TT I think has a pretty linear HP/TQ curve. So in this case, Westpak, you would be right. The problem is that I think Speedracer and I are talking about the kits that DON'T serve the power in a linear manner. You just plain have to be more cautious because nonlinearity can causes a break in traction, and any hesitation on the track will only result in slower lap times. That is not to say it's undriveable. But I hope you woudl agree that most professional racers prefer a liner hp/tq output, FI or NA.

 

I think you missed the point of the original post. I do not think that SpeedRacer was saying that given the two cars had equal HP, the N/A was preferable. He was saying that he perfers a stock (or mildly modded) Z to an FI Z. At least that is how I interpreted his post.

Each to his own. I want a Vortech!

 

that quote was meant for westpak anyways. And i'm sure if I misinterpreted speedracer, he woudl have said somethign by now.

 

I guess my question is have you driven a TT 350Z to make the statements as to linear power, it is easy to state things as they might appear on paper but reality sometimes differ, the TT with the stock CR is a pretty good setup boost kick is not very pronounced and just continues where the stock power curve starts to die.

And like I said I have driven my NA on the track and you still have to be careful with the throttle that rear end will still come out on you if you are not careful so to drive 10/10 with an NA is not as easy as it sounds, I have experienced the spinds from hitting the gas too hard coming out of a corner, and if you hessitate a little more on the turns with a TT you forget it will probably make it up on the straights.

 

Didn't you notuce that I mentioned in the case of the APS TT, you were right?

And I exlpained that were were talking about the FI options that didn't have a linear curve?

I have never driven a TT Z. I have driven an EVO. The power is not really all that linear, but the awd advantage makes up for that. Your example with kicking ou the rear with NA power only seems to prove my point about the non-linear FI options. It woudl be even harder to drive. Hence my point that I stated a long time ago.

 

I think one of the points that speedracer is trying to make is that its more fun for him to drive an na Z at 9/10ths than an FI Z at 6/10ths.

I must admit, I recently rented a little hyundai accent, and it was fun wringing everything out of it. Was it fast, no, but I kept it at redline constantly!

 

Its all about balance. The 350Z in stock form is a fairly well balanced car for spirited road racing and not really all that great for the 1/4 mile. Sure there are some upgrades you can do here and there for not a whole lot of money to make it even better, but slap on a TT kit and man you really need to make some changes to keep that overall balance for road racing. The car will make great strides in the 1/4 mile, but add in some twisties and hard braking!! Not many people have really gone full out NA with this car yet besides the guys who actually race the car. This engine is capable of a lot more NA HP than many might think. Not many NA cars have done blocks, internals, heads, fuel systems, engine management and so on. Why, because their engine still runs great just the way it is. The ones who have done major work have mostly done so because they had to as a result of major engine failure involved with FI. I would rather build up all the other aspects of the car first such as brakes, suspension, and wheels before slapping on too much TQ/HP. That allows the car to still be driven hard as you continue to make more and more power. Plus, newer things continue to come out for the engine and market competition continues to help drive prices down. Drag racing is quite a different world than road racing. A car really built for drag racing is not a lot of fun out on the street. You can build a car that does well at both, but not be great at either. Balance.

 

sooooo easy to say...a bunch of hypotheticals here...
i can tell you from personal experience...my car is difficult to handle if you floor it in 1st, 2nd, 3rd (somethimes 4th)...but i am learning how much throttle under what circumstances..and i am having a blast!!!... i love it, would NEVER go back...

haven't taken it out to an actual road racing course yet, but i have done very similar on the streets..it takes some know-how to control, but it definately is the BEST handling and FASTEST car i have ever driven--and i have driven many...this car is the perfect platform to make tein turbo with 500+ whp #'s..the best of both worlds!

again, very easy for everyone to say what you wouldn't do, if you haven't done

not trying to be an a$$, just telling you how it is from someone who knows from very personal experience

TODD

 

I'm not specifically talking about handling. What I am refering to is the ability of a car's inherent design to control its engine power with "hard" driving on the part of the driver. This "hard" driving, in my opinion, is part of the fun of driving a sports car. What I'm trying to say is that the S2000 was more fun to drive because of it's CONTROLABILITY while the driver is "beating" on it. In order to have that level of control in a boosted Z, you have to be more reserved, and more gentle. It is not just about the car's capabilities, it is about how much fun I can have with my actions in the car...downshifting hard, then flooring it out of a turn, for example. And it's not like an NA Z has the low power of something like a Miata that is just plain too wimpy.

The 911 Turbo has the power of the Cobra, the handling of the Z, and AWD for the controlability that allows one to use those high limits without as much caution.

 

This is good to hear. I like the way you described the NA Z as athletic and controllable. I feel the same way, even though I have never owned a boosted car. I am happy with the Z, but I also am adding more NA mods for that extra performance just for fun.

 

TOTALLY AGREE WITH THREAD STARTER!!!

I had a 300+ FWHP 250+ FWTQ ACURA RSX-S.. WOW! The power from a roll would impress anyone. The car weighed about 2700lbs, and had a redline of 8500rpm.. But the car was SO HARD TO CONTROL!!! It took everything I had mentally to launch that car w/o getting wheelspin through 3rd gear! Even with drag radials at the track!

I would hit low 13s easy @ 107mph. Could have hit mid 12s with slicks or high 12s with GOOD drag radials. Or perhaps 11s if I built the engine a bit, and boosted more. But the bad thing was that car was all over the place. When I was n/a I would hit a constant low 14 @ 97-99mph. but it was much easier to drive, and would leave a fat smile on my face.... built more with n/a I could have got to the high 13s.

 

So true! I have had my TT for about 2 months, and I love it! I wouldn't want to go back to NA, and I love the big grin it puts on people's faces when I give them a ride
Also, I haven't had any handling issues. Yes there is more power, but you just need to get used to it and learn how to control it. Its just as easy to lose control in a NA car if you don't know what your doing, so if you learn how to control the extra power properly, then there shouldn't be any problems.

 

Well as for the 911 AWD is for wimps talking about not having to do driver input.

As for the Z I don't know about you but before TT I have tried flooring it out of a turn and ended up spining and off the track so I still say you cannot drive the NA 350Z like you are saying, it is not an Elise where you can go full out in and out of every turn.

 

See, seems like some people are missing the point. You probably havn't had any handling issues because you're driving on the street. We're talking about driving on a track. Have you dirven hard on a track with no handling issues? Linear power is easier to control. Racecar drivers/race teams prefer it. That means something.

 

If you have spun out in an NA Z, then a TT Z would be ALOT harder to control when throttling out of a turn. You're proving our points by saying that. Read my post above. Race teams prefer linear power. That means something!

 

You are missing the point what I am saying is that even in NA form you have to respect the torque of the Z and you cannot drive it with abandon so with TT is is similar just lesser inputs than with NA it doesn't go from full throttle to timid inputs like it is implied by some.

 

You can spin out in any car NA or FI. All you have to do is SLAM on the gas when ur in a turn and there you go. If you know the limit, and if you know how to control the EXTRA power given by FI, then it won't be any harder. Yes, if you slam the pedal then u will spin out more in a TT Z because it will give you a lot more power instantly, but thats the reason why you don't go full throttle, and even in a NA Z, if you go full throttle in a sharp curve then you WILL spin out.

Any way you look at, if both Z's (NA and FI) have not had any mods to improve their handling, then they would pretty much need to go into the curve at the same speed, but once they're out of the curve, which one do you think will be in front? It doesn't matter which Z your in, you will have to take the curve pretty much at the same speed, unless you have modified your handling. What matters is who will be in front once both Z are out of the curve. Another thing to consider is, a track is not ALL curves. There are a few straight aways, and the FI Z will have the edge there for sure, and hence will get to the next curve sooner.

I'm not trying to bash on the NA Z's, but I do think that a FI Z has the edge over a NA Z (at least if you compared it to the current one's that are 300rwhp max). People just make it sound like a TT Z is the worst thing you can have on the track, and its not like that at all. You just have to be a little more conscious of that extra power and use it when you can.

 

If I put a TT in my Z, I would most likely kill myself, ending up like a splat in some light pole somewhere.

But that's just me.