Apexi350z

iTrader: (3)

This is more like a star topology (LAN)

Thanks!

12SecZ

It's a Hybrid then

Who are the 9 that voted we are quacks, chime in at any time now that someone posted a Dyno

nj1266

You can get an earthing kit for close to the price that you are building it. click here and get the kit that is used in japan http://www.sunautomobile.com I got the kit and installed it on my 4 banger race car. Since my car is off the streets, I could not test it.

One tip though, make sure that you sand paper the paint where you connect the wire to the chassis. That will make for a better ground. Paint reduces the contact point betten the copper end of the wire and the metal of the chassis.

At the above site they show that a Type R gained 5 hp and around 4 lnb-ft of torque from the ground wires.

Also import tuner tested the wires on their suzuki project car and it gianed 3-5 hp. http://www.importtuner.com/tech/0212it_ppsuzuki/

I will be dyno testing the wires on my car and I will get back to you.

AndyB

I had a few thought on how/why the kits works. I have a degree in engineering with a minor in electrical engineering so I hope I can add a little insight. I am not an EE by trade so I may have some details wrong, but I think the gist here is right.

I can think of two reasons that the RPMS might drop or appear to drop.

1) They really do drop. The computer is almost certainly counting pulses from a sensor (tach line) to determine RPM. If electrical noise caused the computer to miss pulses the computer would read a slightly lower rpm. To correct the low RPM detected it would increase the idle to compensate. When you fix the signal fewer pulses are dropped and the computer lowers the idle control accordingly.

2) It may be that asmoother idle just makes it feel like lower revs.

To me it is not too suprising that a ground kit can work. The same engine ground wire used for the signals is also used when the spark plugs are fired with thousands of volts. Even with a fairly large wire there is some resisitance. That resistance can lead to a local ground elevating slightly.

Ordinarily in electronics you design to minimize ground loops since they act as antennas. Any EE will tell you the best grounding strategy is a single point (star) pattern. I suspect a star configuration from the battery is closest to ideal

In the case of the engine this is probably not a big factor considering the electrical chaos from the coils, plugs, and alternator. Thus a loop or two is no biggie.

Another tweak might be to be sure the computer has a nice solid ground to the battery just like the engine. This will ensure the sender and reciever are using the same reference. I don't have an earthing kit yet so I don't know if that is part of the kit.

I must admit that all this talk about grounding kits has me wondering if it would help my truck. The Durango 5.9 liter engine is famous (infamous) for having a bit of a heartbeat at idle. I may try it some time. I have been on F-Body and Durango lists for years and neither group seems to talk about earthing kits. That could be because they don't know about them, or it could be that those cars just don;t benefit from them. Who knows.

Anyone else got any theories?

AndyB

forpointsex

You guys are asking for trouble re-grounding your motor. I'm sure nissan had their engineers do their homework and run plenty of RF tests. Maybe the the reason the motor runs better is because the computer is getting a worst (created by ground loops) signal and dumping more fuel. Sure it will make the motor smoother, but it doesn't make it run correctly.

An ECU will have its own signal ground. Each sensor is grounded from the ECU, not the block itself. I'm sure there are filters in the ECU that get rid of the alternator noise at least.

But what do I know, I'm only an electrical engineer, not a worker for import tuner. Oh yea, I drive a ford too, not a 350z.

chazzg

iTrader: (1)

The Grounding kit is a Factory Opition In Japan for the Fairlady Z. So we are not doing anything that nissan does not recomend.

ahhhshucks

A tech at me delarship said that the motors are grounded poorly....just another way for nissan to cut corners and save money.

He also said the maximas were alot worst.

I installed this kit 2 days ago...and I am very impressed. There is a noticeable diff at idle and over 4 grand

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Man, I really hate to flame but...

How exactly do you know the motor doesn't run correctly? What evidence do you have to support this statement? If you drive a Ford, how would you know what we're talking about with respect to our cars?

Okay, here is the flame...there is theory, and there is practice. You obviously have no clue with respect to the grounding kit through first hand knowledge. When we tell you it makes a difference by actual use and you tell use we're looking for trouble without any proof or testing, I have to say, ask your school for a refund on that double E.

You know what, I really didn't hate having to make that flame. Actually, it felt...quite good.

stx

My theory is that the kit puts critical areas of the car on equal pontential. For instance, a house doesn't have a ground rod for every outlet. It only has one ground rod at the meter loop. The reason is to eliminate potential differences from the different spots in the house. If there is a potential difference in the house and you run a wire from one point of the house to another your will create a voltage on that wire. I think it would be the same in your car. If that is the case the kit would eliminate the noise the ECU hears.

menehune

Did you re-ground your Ford after reading our posts? Try it, what's a few extra wires in the engine-bay?

DMONTE

In all my electrical experience I've only heard of a bad ground or insufficient ground ,I've never once heard of too much ground

D Monte

redz32/bluez33

Yea D, you are right-There is no such thing as too much ground. And it seems pretty obvious, given the cost involved, that Nissan failed to do it because of what it cost. The only way that they are able to sell these cars for their price point (other than robbing the stock parts bin, of course) is to not spend large sums on frivolities, especially those that they can sell aftermarket with a big profit. But, as this poll attests, this modification is far from frivololous. It is simply costly from a manufacturing standpoint. Even if they were only paying $20 for all the components, preassembled, and whatever extra time involved to install it, that cost alone is probably equal to about 15% of all the rest of the wiring combined. And I doubt that they could source it that cheaply, even in the volumes that they would be buying. What makes me think I know anything about this kind of stuff? Well, I grew up in my dad's factory making electronic subassemblies for everyone from Mattel to Lear Siegler, and I currently run production for a manufacturing business, so I am somewhat familiar with the processes involved. And when you factor in the cost vs. benefit of the kit, and see that the car runs fine without it, then the decision is obvious-Leave it off, and let the buyers add it if they wish. Personally, I think it makes a huge difference, not just in idle and 4000+RPM smoothness, but in shifting smoothness. I swear that it has made it easier to tick off seamless shifts compared to without it. And that alone, in terms of clutch, transmission and drivetrain longevity, makes the cost worth every cent. And I paid only $70 for mine delivered. (Thanks, Guy!)

syf0n

Hey guys,

I was sitting on the can reading my roomate's copy of Import Tuner and happened across an article on the Hyper Ground System, which is the system Nissan uses OEM in Japan (their 'factory option'). I don't know what availability is like in the U.S. of Izza, but from what I read in the article it is the best grounding kit out there based on quality of parts and how they make it/implement it -- they have the patent on how it works (daisy chain instead of loop). The useless Japanese manufacturer site is here:

http://www.sunautomobile.com/

It seems like if you're going to re-ground your car it would be worth the extra 20-30 dollars they charge for this kit over the other ones you are putting on your cars. I will probably go with this kit when I get my Z.

I have a question about the grounding kits, what is installation like? Does it come with instructions? Do it yourself? Take it to a shop?

Thanks!

bhobson333

Not only installed it myself, made it myself! 4-gauge cable, cutters, terminals, knife, crimper, shrink-wrap, heat gun, 10mm wrench, a few extra bolts & washers. A little less than $20 and you can't tell it from a set being sold for $85 or more.

If you buy a kit, if you can handle a 10mm wrench and follow simple directions you can do the job.

syf0n

Thanks brotha

darinu

Bought mine from insaneamine. i think it's worth the money. i noticed a subtle improvment in smoothness.

12SecZ

Then anyone can. I am the King of Klutz and walked away with a bleeding thumb and that was it. There are good pics and info in this lenghty thread I would read them and use them when you do your install.

As someone else mentioned I laid out all of the wires by size rather than try and measure them. I highly reccomend going through Guy who makes the kit in this thread. As you can see several people (including me) bought his kit and posted positive results.

cyclocross

I'm still having trouble understanding why the kits have to ground the aluminum intake plenum at three locations. Does anybody know? Also, how is a daisy chain of cables different from a loop of cables?

s9am_me

iTrader: (1)

Yeah thats true.. you can make one yourself.. but i'm the lazy type.. i'd rather have it all cut and heat-shrunk and crimmped for me

GY-Z

m..sorry to ask a domb question like this..but wat is a grounding kit??