Found a cure for the understeer in my Z
12-30-2002, 01:48 PM
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Found a cure for the understeer in my Z
For the advanced drivers out there only. I found after lots of testing that you can in fact rid the 350Z of understeer. I removed my front sway bar. And it is great. The understeer is gone and there are no ill handling effects as a result. I have picked up massive grip on the front end. Just thought you guys would like to know.
12-30-2002, 02:11 PM
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I spotted the HUGE front bar while watching Eric install the grounding kit. As big as it is, I knew it had to go. However, I'm all in favor of replacing it with a smaller adjustable bar.
Did you notice any significant increase in body roll?
Fly
Can you give a more detailed account of the change in handling?
Did you notice any significant increase in body roll?
Fly
Can you give a more detailed account of the change in handling?
12-30-2002, 02:27 PM
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Body roll differences were negligible. I noticed almost no change in the amount of body roll. turn in was better and overall grip is improved. That being said it is only noticeably better with the traction control off and really driving it hard. The car is much more neutral in slow speed corners. I actually had my dealer take it off for me. They were happy to do it and did not charge me. There is nothing better than a mod friendly dealer.
12-30-2002, 06:53 PM
#6
That is a crutch and not a fix. What you did was gain more neg camber in the front end by letting the front roll over more.
The correct way is to decrease the front and rear roll y going tobigger front and rear bars in a eqaul %. In the end you are going the wrong way by removing the front bar.......
We made huge gains on the track by increasing the bars front and rear in stiffness.
The correct way is to decrease the front and rear roll y going tobigger front and rear bars in a eqaul %. In the end you are going the wrong way by removing the front bar.......
We made huge gains on the track by increasing the bars front and rear in stiffness.
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12-31-2002, 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by dwnshift
That is a crutch and not a fix. What you did was gain more neg camber in the front end by letting the front roll over more.
The correct way is to decrease the front and rear roll y going tobigger front and rear bars in a eqaul %. In the end you are going the wrong way by removing the front bar.......
We made huge gains on the track by increasing the bars front and rear in stiffness.
That is a crutch and not a fix. What you did was gain more neg camber in the front end by letting the front roll over more.
The correct way is to decrease the front and rear roll y going tobigger front and rear bars in a eqaul %. In the end you are going the wrong way by removing the front bar.......
We made huge gains on the track by increasing the bars front and rear in stiffness.
franklinz
01-01-2003, 11:12 PM
#13
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dwnshft,
Why do you say that removing the front anti-roll bar is a crutch? If it actually helps make the car more balanced, and increases the overall grip, it sounds pretty legitimate to me. The only negative I see is that you may increase body roll, but since the Z is already so flat then is that really a problem.
It seems that if you call that fix a crutch, then isn't any other change also a crutch? I understand that you can do even better by stiffening the front and rear, but as far as bang for the buck, removing parts is much less expensive than adding new ones. Also, if someone then decided the performance with the bar removed was not good enough, they could always get a stiffer one later.
-D'oh!
Why do you say that removing the front anti-roll bar is a crutch? If it actually helps make the car more balanced, and increases the overall grip, it sounds pretty legitimate to me. The only negative I see is that you may increase body roll, but since the Z is already so flat then is that really a problem.
It seems that if you call that fix a crutch, then isn't any other change also a crutch? I understand that you can do even better by stiffening the front and rear, but as far as bang for the buck, removing parts is much less expensive than adding new ones. Also, if someone then decided the performance with the bar removed was not good enough, they could always get a stiffer one later.
-D'oh!
01-02-2003, 08:36 AM
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Once again don't confuse feel for actual performance. I'm sure it does kill understeer but have you actually taken it on the skid pad and got a higher rating, you may also not have been pushing as hard knowing of the cars inherent understeer from the factory, however, now push even harder after modifications which may be eluding to further performance gains where there are none.
One definite disadvantage to removing the front sway bar is chassis stiffness. I'm sure Nissan engineers tested the car with and without the front roll bar but in the end the understeer (and yes I know Nissan does build in plenty of understeer on top of that) was a small price to pay for the added performance and chassis strength. You see, in slow speed corners the unequal length wishbones and roll of the car help camber the wheels alowing you to keep maximum contact patch with the road, however in high speed corners loosing the stiffness and stability of alowing the left and right sides to help eachother realy affects your contact patch, not to mention tire wear as now in both slow and high speed corners the outside wheel with be doing twice the work. Add bumps, curbing, cracks or anything that can change the plane of suspension and I'm sure you feel the wonderfull slip/grip, slip/grip on the front as each of the front suspension wiggles around on it's own, scrubbing more rubber and ultimately more grip.
One definite disadvantage to removing the front sway bar is chassis stiffness. I'm sure Nissan engineers tested the car with and without the front roll bar but in the end the understeer (and yes I know Nissan does build in plenty of understeer on top of that) was a small price to pay for the added performance and chassis strength. You see, in slow speed corners the unequal length wishbones and roll of the car help camber the wheels alowing you to keep maximum contact patch with the road, however in high speed corners loosing the stiffness and stability of alowing the left and right sides to help eachother realy affects your contact patch, not to mention tire wear as now in both slow and high speed corners the outside wheel with be doing twice the work. Add bumps, curbing, cracks or anything that can change the plane of suspension and I'm sure you feel the wonderfull slip/grip, slip/grip on the front as each of the front suspension wiggles around on it's own, scrubbing more rubber and ultimately more grip.
01-02-2003, 03:25 PM
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To answer you question Yes I have pushed the car to the limits. I have done so over the same corners I drive everyday. I have gained 10-15% speed per corner. I have not gone to a skid pad I do not need to. With front Sway bar on I can take a very tight corner I drive often at 26 MPH without it I can get 32 MPH out of the same corner with more control. I have driven it and driven both ways and until someone comes out with better sway bars mine is staying off. and as far as the highspeed stuff I have taken some 35MPH corners on the freway at 120+ and the car has shown no ill handling because of the lacking Sway bar.
01-02-2003, 05:01 PM
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Hello,
It is possible and well within the limits of your Z. This car is very predictable and corners with some of the best cars in the world. Yes there are several fast, Banked sweepers in SLC Utah rated at 35MPH (posted speed limit sign) that can be taken at 120 Plus in the Z. If anyone would like to fly to SLC and verify I would be happy to oblidge. An F1 car could take the same corners at 170 plus.
It is possible and well within the limits of your Z. This car is very predictable and corners with some of the best cars in the world. Yes there are several fast, Banked sweepers in SLC Utah rated at 35MPH (posted speed limit sign) that can be taken at 120 Plus in the Z. If anyone would like to fly to SLC and verify I would be happy to oblidge. An F1 car could take the same corners at 170 plus.
01-02-2003, 05:13 PM
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Hello,
And before I get roasted let me add this. I am not saying that all 35 MPH corners can be taken that fast. I saying there are a few corners on our freeway that are 3 lanes wide with excellent visability(an absolute must) that you can take at about 120 MPH dependent on outside temp. The are other 35 MPH corners I can only 85-90 MPH on. Those of you that race know what I am talking about the rest of you will just have to trust that I do not have my speedo in Kilometers per hour. This is a great car I hope everyone is enjoying theirs as much as I am.......
And before I get roasted let me add this. I am not saying that all 35 MPH corners can be taken that fast. I saying there are a few corners on our freeway that are 3 lanes wide with excellent visability(an absolute must) that you can take at about 120 MPH dependent on outside temp. The are other 35 MPH corners I can only 85-90 MPH on. Those of you that race know what I am talking about the rest of you will just have to trust that I do not have my speedo in Kilometers per hour. This is a great car I hope everyone is enjoying theirs as much as I am.......
01-03-2003, 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by dwnshift
no
no