So what makes the JDM ECU un-usable in our cars?
01-15-2003, 11:13 AM
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So what makes the JDM ECU un-usable in our cars?
What about the engine is different? I understand the emissions control would be different, but if it's only on the ECU side then what difference does it make?
Let's discuss.
Let's discuss.
01-15-2003, 01:04 PM
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woo hoo, finally someone who wants to talk some technical stuff!
Ok, that makes sense. what's the average octane rating? Also I would ask how dynamically programmed the ECU is and it's ability to adjust to external conditions such as octane rating. If it's aftermarket programming we're talking about, it should be conditioned for a wide octane range.
Ok, that makes sense. what's the average octane rating? Also I would ask how dynamically programmed the ECU is and it's ability to adjust to external conditions such as octane rating. If it's aftermarket programming we're talking about, it should be conditioned for a wide octane range.
01-15-2003, 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by sschmuve
The gas is different over there. The octanes are higher. This may be one reason.
The gas is different over there. The octanes are higher. This may be one reason.
is unleaded 100 RON. That works out to about 95 (R+M)/2 -which is not available for the most part in the US (some of you lucky folks get 94 (R+M)/2 - though that may be with very insensitive gas and may still be a 96 RON 92 MON gas rather than a RON 99
So all in all Japans best pump gas is only 1 point higher then our best pump gas (around here anyway) of 93 octain..
This topic has been beat over, and over on many differant boards.
01-15-2003, 03:08 PM
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Wouldn't they speak different languages? 
There was a post by someone a few months ago when the grounding kits first came out that raised a good point which is that ECU's for US cars come with a massive amount of poor-condition tolerances built in, which is why they don't come at top performance (why everyone is waiting for some good ECU reworks to come out)... For instance, Nissan built in a tolerance to allow some 89 octane to work in the engine with 91 (ca emissions)... Also theres another figure, 92 octane everywhere else, 91 octane in CA.
Anyways, I'm sure I'm not making very much sense, but I'd assume wait for an actual performance chip to come out, rather than blow my wad on a JDM spec chip that's certain to include complications.
There was a post by someone a few months ago when the grounding kits first came out that raised a good point which is that ECU's for US cars come with a massive amount of poor-condition tolerances built in, which is why they don't come at top performance (why everyone is waiting for some good ECU reworks to come out)... For instance, Nissan built in a tolerance to allow some 89 octane to work in the engine with 91 (ca emissions)... Also theres another figure, 92 octane everywhere else, 91 octane in CA.
Anyways, I'm sure I'm not making very much sense, but I'd assume wait for an actual performance chip to come out, rather than blow my wad on a JDM spec chip that's certain to include complications.
01-15-2003, 04:45 PM
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It's not just the octane rating but also the blend of substances that go into what we call "pump gas." Dont quote me on this but one major issue is the amount of sulfur in US gasoline. This is one of the reasons that direct injection cannot work in the US but works just fine in Japan.
01-15-2003, 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by ITR#203
It's not just the octane rating but also the blend of substances that go into what we call "pump gas." Dont quote me on this but one major issue is the amount of sulfur in US gasoline. This is one of the reasons that direct injection cannot work in the US but works just fine in Japan.
It's not just the octane rating but also the blend of substances that go into what we call "pump gas." Dont quote me on this but one major issue is the amount of sulfur in US gasoline. This is one of the reasons that direct injection cannot work in the US but works just fine in Japan.
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01-15-2003, 06:17 PM
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If it was just octane, wouldn't they be able to program it so that if it "sensed" and lower octane it would use a different map for it. I am not sure how much storage the chip has so maybe that would be a limiting factor.
On another note, how large of a range will a new ECU be able to adapt to. I suppose limits are less restrictive than the stock one so that more HP can be gained from mods such as intakes, but at what level of mod will the ECU again become the bottleneck? If the new ECU can adapt to different mods, why not octane?
On another note, how large of a range will a new ECU be able to adapt to. I suppose limits are less restrictive than the stock one so that more HP can be gained from mods such as intakes, but at what level of mod will the ECU again become the bottleneck? If the new ECU can adapt to different mods, why not octane?
01-16-2003, 01:21 PM
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Most ECU's adjust for low octane by pulling out a few degrees of spark advance based on the input from a knock sensor which is an accelerometer tuned to "hear" the knock frequencies. Only the USA uses the stupid (R+M/)2 octane measurement because it is mandated by the EPA. The EPA could not decide between the Reasearch & Motor methods of octane rating so they decided to create a third totally unnecessary system.
Gasoline Direct Injection can not yet meet our current and future emmission requirements because of high NOX and the need for NOX storage catalists. This technology is advancing rather slowly.
The high sulfur content in US diesel fuel is keeping modern direct injection DIESELS out of the US market, totally different situation.
A JDM ECU is probably just like ours with a slightly different map in the EEPROM. It will tuned to meet Japanese emmission and fuel economy requirements but probably make very little if any more power than ours. It will be cheaper and more benificial to put an aftermarket chip in our standard ECU.
With the ECU controlling the variable valve timing, spark, fueling, throttle opening, rev limiter, etc. it should be possible to get this engine to make good power for an extra 500 rpm or so above stock with a chip change. For offroad use only! Ha Ha.
Gasoline Direct Injection can not yet meet our current and future emmission requirements because of high NOX and the need for NOX storage catalists. This technology is advancing rather slowly.
The high sulfur content in US diesel fuel is keeping modern direct injection DIESELS out of the US market, totally different situation.
A JDM ECU is probably just like ours with a slightly different map in the EEPROM. It will tuned to meet Japanese emmission and fuel economy requirements but probably make very little if any more power than ours. It will be cheaper and more benificial to put an aftermarket chip in our standard ECU.
With the ECU controlling the variable valve timing, spark, fueling, throttle opening, rev limiter, etc. it should be possible to get this engine to make good power for an extra 500 rpm or so above stock with a chip change. For offroad use only! Ha Ha.
01-16-2003, 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by dr_gallup
Most ECU's adjust for low octane by pulling out a few degrees of spark advance based on the input from a knock sensor which is an accelerometer tuned to "hear" the knock frequencies. Only the USA uses the stupid (R+M/)2 octane measurement because it is mandated by the EPA. The EPA could not decide between the Reasearch & Motor methods of octane rating so they decided to create a third totally unnecessary system.
Gasoline Direct Injection can not yet meet our current and future emmission requirements because of high NOX and the need for NOX storage catalists. This technology is advancing rather slowly.
The high sulfur content in US diesel fuel is keeping modern direct injection DIESELS out of the US market, totally different situation.
A JDM ECU is probably just like ours with a slightly different map in the EEPROM. It will tuned to meet Japanese emmission and fuel economy requirements but probably make very little if any more power than ours. It will be cheaper and more benificial to put an aftermarket chip in our standard ECU.
With the ECU controlling the variable valve timing, spark, fueling, throttle opening, rev limiter, etc. it should be possible to get this engine to make good power for an extra 500 rpm or so above stock with a chip change. For offroad use only! Ha Ha.
Most ECU's adjust for low octane by pulling out a few degrees of spark advance based on the input from a knock sensor which is an accelerometer tuned to "hear" the knock frequencies. Only the USA uses the stupid (R+M/)2 octane measurement because it is mandated by the EPA. The EPA could not decide between the Reasearch & Motor methods of octane rating so they decided to create a third totally unnecessary system.
Gasoline Direct Injection can not yet meet our current and future emmission requirements because of high NOX and the need for NOX storage catalists. This technology is advancing rather slowly.
The high sulfur content in US diesel fuel is keeping modern direct injection DIESELS out of the US market, totally different situation.
A JDM ECU is probably just like ours with a slightly different map in the EEPROM. It will tuned to meet Japanese emmission and fuel economy requirements but probably make very little if any more power than ours. It will be cheaper and more benificial to put an aftermarket chip in our standard ECU.
With the ECU controlling the variable valve timing, spark, fueling, throttle opening, rev limiter, etc. it should be possible to get this engine to make good power for an extra 500 rpm or so above stock with a chip change. For offroad use only! Ha Ha.
01-17-2003, 01:29 PM
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I discussed this in very long length with Tomei Racing about ECU's and gas. Japan gas is higher than the US. Running 100 octane BUT they did make a big deal about it. If you get a ECU and only have gas at 94 octane. Nothing but alittle 104+ won't fix.
01-17-2003, 03:44 PM
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Japan gas is higher than the US. Running 100 octane
100 octane in japan is equel to 94-95 octane HERE in the U.S
Which they do sell 94 octane here in the midwest( 66 )
01-20-2003, 08:20 PM
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damn the hippie government in california i want 100 at the pump, btw sport compact car ran the Z at 100 octane and it put down 5 or 10 extra hp at the dyno
01-21-2003, 05:34 AM
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Update. I emailed mines asking if the current VX-Rom would work in the NA application. Here's what I got. (this is pasted btw)
ME - I have an american spec Nissan 350z Track. I would like to know if the VX-Rom currently offered would work in my car.
Thank you.
MINES - Dear Eric
Now I am developing VX-ROM of North America specification.
The release time is still undecided.
Tank you.
ME - I have an american spec Nissan 350z Track. I would like to know if the VX-Rom currently offered would work in my car.
Thank you.
MINES - Dear Eric
Now I am developing VX-ROM of North America specification.
The release time is still undecided.
Tank you.
01-21-2003, 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by ITR#203
Thanks Dr. Gallup for the clearification / information. It's always good to have people who know what they are talking about.
Thanks Dr. Gallup for the clearification / information. It's always good to have people who know what they are talking about.
So how much is the ECU going to cost?
V
01-22-2003, 05:06 AM
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Ecutek!!!, Might be coming out with a reflash service for the Stock ECU.
But My understanding of EM this would not yeld a great gain in power like Turbo charged car would. Could net about 15hp. Is the stock ECU made by Denso??? if So it could be a very powerfull unit with a lot of learn functions such as knock count and Ing. Advance.
Eric
But My understanding of EM this would not yeld a great gain in power like Turbo charged car would. Could net about 15hp. Is the stock ECU made by Denso??? if So it could be a very powerfull unit with a lot of learn functions such as knock count and Ing. Advance.
Eric
01-22-2003, 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by Technica
Eric. Did you get your new plates yet? Still BiTurbo?? lol
So how much is the ECU going to cost?
V
Eric. Did you get your new plates yet? Still BiTurbo?? lol
So how much is the ECU going to cost?
V
Looks like ECU's will be in the ball park of $1200 for a full ECU and $700 for just the EPROM. I hope that number goes down though. I miss the days of a $300 hypertech chip!
WRBLUEWAGON - no way we will see the kind of gains from an ECU that a turbo application would see, however, the gist I am getting is that the NA spec ECU is severly detuned. I say this because with the NISMO car making 340 with ECU exhaust and intake... figure 20 from exhaust, 5 from intake, where did the other ~35hp come from? ECU?? Let's hope so.
01-22-2003, 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod 350z
Haha, yeah I got the new plates BLKTRACK it is.
Looks like ECU's will be in the ball park of $1200 for a full ECU and $700 for just the EPROM. I hope that number goes down though. I miss the days of a $300 hypertech chip!
WRBLUEWAGON - no way we will see the kind of gains from an ECU that a turbo application would see, however, the gist I am getting is that the NA spec ECU is severly detuned. I say this because with the NISMO car making 340 with ECU exhaust and intake... figure 20 from exhaust, 5 from intake, where did the other ~35hp come from? ECU?? Let's hope so.
Haha, yeah I got the new plates BLKTRACK it is.
Looks like ECU's will be in the ball park of $1200 for a full ECU and $700 for just the EPROM. I hope that number goes down though. I miss the days of a $300 hypertech chip!
WRBLUEWAGON - no way we will see the kind of gains from an ECU that a turbo application would see, however, the gist I am getting is that the NA spec ECU is severly detuned. I say this because with the NISMO car making 340 with ECU exhaust and intake... figure 20 from exhaust, 5 from intake, where did the other ~35hp come from? ECU?? Let's hope so.