Fully built/sleeved VQ pics..
06-03-2006, 03:55 AM
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Fully built/sleeved VQ pics..
Thought you guys might enjoy these...
98mm 9:1 JE pistons
Carillo H-beam rods
ARP rod bolts
ARP head studs
LA Sleeves Sleeve kit
.140" tool steel pins
Cryotreated 81.40mm (stock) crankshaft
This engine will also feature JWT's prototype C2 race cams/spring package, and Cometic MLS gaskets. We will be using VQ30 timing covers and sprockets, to ditch the heavy CVTC sprockets. We are going to try to go to 8500rpm, but we will step up the RPM in increments starting at about 7800rpm, to make sure there's no valve float issue with these bigger cams. With the GT45R turbocharger, 1000cc injectors, and TEC 3, we're going to be hunting for 8-900whp. Power will be funneled through 27x10" slicks and a 6spd with a few tricks to strengthen it up.
...Oh, and did I mention that this is going into a FWD car?
I know that some of you guys are big on "head lifting" with the stock diameter ARP studs. I don't buy it... I think the problem has to do with localized boiling/hot spots, which creates steam pockets. I also think that a some of the problem is with poor tuning. Not saying that EVERYONE has a tuning issue.. But, I just don't buy into the idea that people are stretching these studs. Hell, JWT/VRT just made 750+whp with STOCK bolts and gaskets! But, we'll see how it turns out..
Travis
98mm 9:1 JE pistons
Carillo H-beam rods
ARP rod bolts
ARP head studs
LA Sleeves Sleeve kit
.140" tool steel pins
Cryotreated 81.40mm (stock) crankshaft
This engine will also feature JWT's prototype C2 race cams/spring package, and Cometic MLS gaskets. We will be using VQ30 timing covers and sprockets, to ditch the heavy CVTC sprockets. We are going to try to go to 8500rpm, but we will step up the RPM in increments starting at about 7800rpm, to make sure there's no valve float issue with these bigger cams. With the GT45R turbocharger, 1000cc injectors, and TEC 3, we're going to be hunting for 8-900whp. Power will be funneled through 27x10" slicks and a 6spd with a few tricks to strengthen it up.
...Oh, and did I mention that this is going into a FWD car?
I know that some of you guys are big on "head lifting" with the stock diameter ARP studs. I don't buy it... I think the problem has to do with localized boiling/hot spots, which creates steam pockets. I also think that a some of the problem is with poor tuning. Not saying that EVERYONE has a tuning issue.. But, I just don't buy into the idea that people are stretching these studs. Hell, JWT/VRT just made 750+whp with STOCK bolts and gaskets! But, we'll see how it turns out..
Travis
06-03-2006, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Trav4011
I know that some of you guys are big on "head lifting" with the stock diameter ARP studs. I don't buy it... I think the problem has to do with localized boiling/hot spots, which creates steam pockets. I also think that a some of the problem is with poor tuning. Not saying that EVERYONE has a tuning issue.. But, I just don't buy into the idea that people are stretching these studs. Hell, JWT/VRT just made 750+whp with STOCK bolts and gaskets! But, we'll see how it turns out..
Travis
Travis
06-03-2006, 04:41 AM
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I've had some very bad experiences with Arias pistons.. We had several pistons, in several different engines with scuffing problems. This was using the high silicone alloy slugs in a 2.5 liter Sentra engine. Usually, this would be associated with tuning issues, but, I have personally torn up 2 sets, for no apparent reason. I tune very conservatively.
JWT had thier turbo kit on the car, at 20psi of boost. With the turbochargers that they are using, that number is probably pretty close. Even if it's off 50-75whp... that's still awesome numbers. The car has been road raced several times, and is daily driven by the owner. Just goes to show what good tuning can do.
Travis
JWT had thier turbo kit on the car, at 20psi of boost. With the turbochargers that they are using, that number is probably pretty close. Even if it's off 50-75whp... that's still awesome numbers. The car has been road raced several times, and is daily driven by the owner. Just goes to show what good tuning can do.
Travis
06-03-2006, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Trav4011
I think the problem has to do with localized boiling/hot spots, which creates steam pockets.
06-03-2006, 07:55 AM
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That's the tricky part.. I think I'm going to try tapping into the cooling system on the heads, and TIG welding some fittings to make a burp tank.
I think I'm going to try tapping into the cooling system on the heads, and TIG welding some fittings to make a burp tank.
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06-03-2006, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Trav4011
That's the tricky part.. I think I'm going to try tapping into the cooling system on the heads, and TIG welding some fittings to make a burp tank.
I think I'm going to try tapping into the cooling system on the heads, and TIG welding some fittings to make a burp tank.I don't believe headlift is a fairy tale, however. There have been multiple members here that have remedied it successfully.
06-03-2006, 09:37 AM
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Trav, you know JWT hasn't even announced these yet....are you sure you should be mentioning these cams? Not 2 weeks ago I talked to Clark and they hadn't released any info yet....
06-03-2006, 12:00 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Trav4011
That's the tricky part.. I think I'm going to try tapping into the cooling system on the heads, and TIG welding some fittings to make a burp tank.
I think I'm going to try tapping into the cooling system on the heads, and TIG welding some fittings to make a burp tank.
06-03-2006, 12:48 PM
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Did anyone else notice the lack of cooling passages on one side of the motor? Trav do you think you'll have any overheating issues with this setup. For reference heres a Darton sleeve kit (courtesy of Sharif):
06-03-2006, 01:03 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Trav4011
I've had some very bad experiences with Arias pistons.. We had several pistons, in several different engines with scuffing problems. This was using the high silicone alloy slugs in a 2.5 liter Sentra engine.
Travis
Travis
You might also consider using 7/16th L19 studs, if you plan to test the limits of a 7/16 stud: http://www.forgedinternals.com/store...7&cat=0&page=1
I would not be surprised if stock bolts trqed to 100ft/lbs (lots of stretch) will work better than a 7/16 stud at 65ft/lbs. The L19 studs can easily be trqed down to 90ft/lbs.
Best of luck with your project.
06-03-2006, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by chimmike
Trav, you know JWT hasn't even announced these yet....are you sure you should be mentioning these cams? Not 2 weeks ago I talked to Clark and they hadn't released any info yet....
People know that they exist, but, I was told not to give out any specs, which we haven't. 
06-03-2006, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Did anyone else notice the lack of cooling passages on one side of the motor? Trav do you think you'll have any overheating issues with this setup. For reference heres a Darton sleeve kit (courtesy of Sharif):
Not really.. We run these sleeves in the QR, which has the same configuration, without any problems. If you look at the stock head gasket, there's only so many passages that lead up into the head. We have machined the deck for all of those passages. Also, on the cometic gaskets, there's actually a "channel" that runs around all of the cylinders, and has ridges on both sides to seal off between the heads and block. So, you have coolant flowing on top of the deck, between the heads and block, plus coolant transfer into the cylinder head at the designated spots in the gaskets/head/block.
Travis
06-03-2006, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
We only use the Arias Extreme Duty pistons for high boost applications. They are zero-silicon forgings, and by far..the strongest piston for the VQ35 on the market. Notice the ring lands: top land is twice as thick as stock. http://www.forgedinternals.com/store...cat=248&page=1
You might also consider using 7/16th L19 studs, if you plan to test the limits of a 7/16 stud: http://www.forgedinternals.com/store...7&cat=0&page=1
I would not be surprised if stock bolts trqed to 100ft/lbs (lots of stretch) will work better than a 7/16 stud at 65ft/lbs. The L19 studs can easily be trqed down to 90ft/lbs.
Best of luck with your project.
You might also consider using 7/16th L19 studs, if you plan to test the limits of a 7/16 stud: http://www.forgedinternals.com/store...7&cat=0&page=1
I would not be surprised if stock bolts trqed to 100ft/lbs (lots of stretch) will work better than a 7/16 stud at 65ft/lbs. The L19 studs can easily be trqed down to 90ft/lbs.
Best of luck with your project.
That's cool... We've just had some bad luck with Arias, and no longer use them. Glad to see that they're doing well in the VQ world, though.
We're going to stick with the regular studs, and see how they hold up. I just don't see how these studs are "stretching". If we run into problems, I'll definately look into getting these from you. Thanks for the input.
Travis
06-03-2006, 03:31 PM
#17
Originally Posted by Trav4011
We're going to stick with the regular studs, and see how they hold up. I just don't see how these studs are "stretching". If we run into problems, I'll definately look into getting these from you. Thanks for the input.
Travis
Travis
If I can clarify: The issue with the standard ARP's is not stretch. The issue is that the material is designed to be trq down to roughly 65ft/lbs (75% of its yield strength). Based on what we've seen, 65ft/lbs does not generate enough clamping force to adequately seal the heads to the block, at high boost levels for a long period of time. This is the reason we had ARP make us custom sets of the 7/16th studs, but made from L19. With L19, we can trq them down to 90ft/lbs without yielding the stud.
As you know, the studs aren't the magical solution. But they are one key component, that will help minimize the chances of head lift.
Thanks for sharing your pics, and if you need anything, don't hesistate.
06-03-2006, 06:58 PM
#18
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Did anyone else notice the lack of cooling passages on one side of the motor? Trav do you think you'll have any overheating issues with this setup. For reference heres a Darton sleeve kit (courtesy of Sharif):
the holes are positioned like that to control the direction of water flow through the block and heads. the head gaskets will have the same holes matching up with those, do even though the darton has more holes in them, the direction of flow is still controlled by the head gasket.
06-03-2006, 07:22 PM
#19
i agree with sharif here... i think one contributing problem is too little clamping force. This is why I have personally gone the route of 1/2" headstuds for this year.
In the iron block w/ aluminum head toyota engines I used to built, we would go to 85-90ft/lb with HKS headgaskets and never had a problem. Thats about where I will be torqueing my half-inchers. I will also be using the new HKS headgaskets this year too... I have had GREAT success with them in other applications and I really look forward to using them on my VQ.
I also agree with Trav about concerns with the cooling system. I have played with the idea of modifying the coolant flow and possibly adding outlets. Have you ever seen how some of the crazy engines, such as the Toyota 503E race engine (pikes peak celica, 2.1L with over 1000hp in qualifying trim) have a coolant MANIFOLD... they actually will evacuate coolant above each combustion chamber just above the exhaust ports. That is pure genious.
However I fear screwing up the coolant flow... if I were to say add a bunch of outlets to various places in the motor, I would take away from the flow at the rear of each head, and possibly be letting the rear cylinders get hotter. Maybe not a full coolant outlet but a very small "breather" to allow gases to escape would be sufficient.
Here is a pic of the coolant manifold from the 503E Toyota engine. Amazing engine really.
In the iron block w/ aluminum head toyota engines I used to built, we would go to 85-90ft/lb with HKS headgaskets and never had a problem. Thats about where I will be torqueing my half-inchers. I will also be using the new HKS headgaskets this year too... I have had GREAT success with them in other applications and I really look forward to using them on my VQ.
I also agree with Trav about concerns with the cooling system. I have played with the idea of modifying the coolant flow and possibly adding outlets. Have you ever seen how some of the crazy engines, such as the Toyota 503E race engine (pikes peak celica, 2.1L with over 1000hp in qualifying trim) have a coolant MANIFOLD... they actually will evacuate coolant above each combustion chamber just above the exhaust ports. That is pure genious.
However I fear screwing up the coolant flow... if I were to say add a bunch of outlets to various places in the motor, I would take away from the flow at the rear of each head, and possibly be letting the rear cylinders get hotter. Maybe not a full coolant outlet but a very small "breather" to allow gases to escape would be sufficient.
Here is a pic of the coolant manifold from the 503E Toyota engine. Amazing engine really.
Last edited by phunk; 06-03-2006 at 07:27 PM.
06-03-2006, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Hey Travis,
If I can clarify: The issue with the standard ARP's is not stretch. The issue is that the material is designed to be trq down to roughly 65ft/lbs (75% of its yield strength). Based on what we've seen, 65ft/lbs does not generate enough clamping force to adequately seal the heads to the block, at high boost levels for a long period of time. This is the reason we had ARP make us custom sets of the 7/16th studs, but made from L19. With L19, we can trq them down to 90ft/lbs without yielding the stud.
As you know, the studs aren't the magical solution. But they are one key component, that will help minimize the chances of head lift.
Thanks for sharing your pics, and if you need anything, don't hesistate.
If I can clarify: The issue with the standard ARP's is not stretch. The issue is that the material is designed to be trq down to roughly 65ft/lbs (75% of its yield strength). Based on what we've seen, 65ft/lbs does not generate enough clamping force to adequately seal the heads to the block, at high boost levels for a long period of time. This is the reason we had ARP make us custom sets of the 7/16th studs, but made from L19. With L19, we can trq them down to 90ft/lbs without yielding the stud.
As you know, the studs aren't the magical solution. But they are one key component, that will help minimize the chances of head lift.
Thanks for sharing your pics, and if you need anything, don't hesistate.
Lot's of great input/information in this thread guys. This is how ALL forums should be.
Travis