Speaking from my experience, the Fcon is worth the money. I don't know what EMS you had planned on running, but with a full build, the 3 grand for Fcon is money well spent. The best setup in the world is crap without proper tuning.

 

No problem, Joe. I know you pretty well over the years, and I know you do a lot of good research, and usually end up making a good decision!

In regards to an EMS, its importance increases as boost level rises. If you plan on staying at the 9-12psi level, other options will work for you as well. But as boost rises, increased tuning resolution becomes more and more important. You may not see all the benifits of the EMS, based soley on a dyno number or a street race, but they are real, and often manifest themselves in areas that can't be readily seen, such as consistency, stability, smoothness, and safety.

The great thing, Joe, is the Los Angeles is a tuning mecca, and you have plenty of good options out there. You'll do just fine.

 

Can I ask you what experience that is? What have you used it with? Can I get some basic specs and usage?

I haven't decided to go that route quite yet, however if I were to, I would go to the Fcon.

You got that right, I've said that too many times to mention.... It is usually lost on those looking for a quick fix though...

 

Thanks Sharif, I'll be talking to you once I'm sure on what I'm doing, I'd love to give you the business.

 

I went from out of box APS with the unichip on stock block, to running the APS on a built lower end, again running the unichip. I have recently upgraded to the APS extreme fuel system and Fcon and increased the boost pressure to a peak of near 17 psi. the differnce is great. Not just peak HP, but the consistency of the car.

 

What was your boost, trq, and hp like at this stage?

What dynos were you tested/tuned on?

Nice, and i know what you mean here.

An appropriate fuel system is key anywhere after 15lbs I believe, I think you can get the stock APS kit up to 15lbs, with proper equipment, and tuning.

Do you have any dyno charts before/during/after any of this?

Also, how are you using this car?

 

The car is used mainly as a street car. I have been rained out every attempt I have made to take to the 1/4 track, and working every time I was to take it to the road course. The build was unintentional and one thing lead to another and we are now sitting with the car as is. I had every intention of just throwing on the TT setup and gettting it tuned on a stock block and being done. Next thing I know, the car is getting the motor pulled to replace a turbo and I am specing out a build. The rest became 'necessities' to make the motor build worthwhile.

 

Thanks so much for your responses, they are as appreciated, as they are rare.

Anyone looking for "real" information, will benefit from this.

Thanks again!

I can take my current setup to about 450WHP/TRQ not sure about ther TRQ as the fuel & control we are talking about is
not immediately present, but I'd guess around 420.

I haven't done it yet, as I drive the car aggressively, and taking anything, to it's near limit, and then consistently pounding on it, under all conditions, is NOT advisible under any circumstance and/or setup.

I COULD take the current setup to 500WHP/450+TRQ, with intake/exhaust upgrades & retune, but again, I'd be going to the limits again, and under the terms of my current usage, and I just don't know how fair it would be to ask my current engine, to withstand it, considering
I'm already getting concerned that it's "done too much" as it is.

 

What fuel and EMS setup are you looking into? There are good choices on the market now, so it really isn't a necessity to wait for one. Back when my motor was built, there wasn't even upgraded HG available, no Fcon, no APS big fuel system, no APS 3" exhaust, even the Utec hadn't been released. The components/parts have come a long way in the past yr for this car.

 

Still "on approach" for this portion of the build.

I was essentially planning on increasing the Injectors, so that I am not at the top end of the duty-cycle of the current ones.

Sharif mentioned something that I did not believe to be the case, about the Unichip not scaling for bigger injectors, coming from him, it's likely to be certain, but I am still checking into that.

I also believe there is a new version of the unichip, which amongst other things, will allow dual (or more?) mapping, say for 92 & 100 octane?

If I need a complete fuel solution & EMS, then I would go to APS Extreme, and Fcon, without doubt.

APS is up to 3.5" now too...

I know I "just can think" right now, but "HG" ? I'm not recalling that accronym...

 

The Unichip does scale injectors, but it has a max 50% reduction in total fuel, so it does have its limitations with very large injectors.

I just feel there are much better options for tuning a high whp monster than the Unichip Classic. The Unichip Q is significantly improved, and you also have other options, such as FCON, AEM, and UTEC.

 

The % up or down really isn't injector scaling, though you can see that it has the ability to control larger than stock injectors. Like you said, it can't control significantly larger injectors.

I had heard there is some sort of way to make larger injectors work by scaling the intake/maf housing

 

HG = Head Gasket

 

Right, this is one of the things I was made to understand to.

it's all about "signal" so I suppose, once you manipulate the signal, in the right places/ways, it should do the job.

So long as you are not short changing yourself, as always, you should go the full/best route.

As I am making my shopping list, and anticipating x,y,z for various labor and tuning, this is becoming quite a bill.

If full EMS is 3Kish... Then the tuning to go with that is going to be at least and/or over 1K for a complete tune, isn't it?

So now we are talking about 4-5K MORE over the basic list, and for me, each 5K becomes "something to consider".

If we were talking 2Kish total, I'd go fuel/full EMS without a doubt, after 10K is already on the table.

If what I need, doesn't require it, then I'd not to keep my 5K and spend it elsewhere.

This topic, is now bringing to mind, something a good business associate/client/and friend says all the time:

"can you say, depreciating asset?"

...

The only way I get away with this stuff is that it keeps me sane. I've got it rough time wise, and the time in my car, gives me some peace and enjoyment, in this hell that is my life at times.

So far it's cheaper than drugs, tons of alcohol, or medical institutionalization, so I'm actually saving money.

 

I'm in the same process of deciding if I want the additional cost to safely achieve 500whp+ on an APS TT kit and built motor. I'm leaning toward going in stages by first tapping out the Unichip to hopefully achieve 475-500whp and enjoying that power for a while. The next stage I'll change to a new EM, fuel system or not, and re-tune. By then more EM options should be available with the upgraded UTEC, AAM or others. Just an option to consider.

Good luck with your decision.

 

Thanks for stopping by, appreciate the input!

We do seem to be in similar boats

 

I can't seem to justify the additional $3K for FCON for 600whp or less, while others like the UTEC are continuing to update to almost match its performance.