Getting ready to "build" my motor...

Yep...

After 2 years, of running the APSTT Kit, and just killing my car daily, track, drag, street, etc..etc..etc..

I've decided that I better start getting rady to buuld my motor.

With "my tuner" not really being available, in the fashion I want, I'm going to have to change sources.

I of course still have my resources for info, but I'm looking for new sources for parts.

So if you are either truly knowledgable, or a well recognized vendor, I want to hear from you.

I'm leaning towards a cosworth setup, I want to replace the plenum with the proper solution(s), and my exhaust, thinking of the APS 3.5"

I don't want a stroker or make it a big block out of it or anything, just want to have reliable 550+ power at the wheel, for my daily driver which I will occasionally (not like I have previously) track/drag my car... but the daily beatings will continue.

I'll take care of the tuning.. I may want your recommendations for a builder, of course the more local to me the better....

im in the San Fernando Valley, so "southern california" is the general target...
LA area preferred...

But as I ALWAYS have in the past, and tend to in the future, I will want the right thing, done the right way, by the right peoople, thanks for any and all help/advise/service/pricing in advance

Joe

 

for reliable 550whp, you don't even need sleeves. Hell, run some regular Arias pistons (you don't need the ED's) and some Eagle rods.

Here's the setup I'm going with and it'll handle 650whp (or whatever the limit of the stock sleeves is, basically) easily.

Arias 8.5:1 .020" pistons
Eagle Rods
Cosworth rod/main bearings
ARP L19 Head studs
STOCK main bolts (I don't think the ARPs are necessary until 700+whp)
HKS headgaskets
JWT S2 cams

With the TN stage 2 550whp will be easy. Even with a stock plenum+spacer.

I was going to go the overkill route but money is an issue, and why overkill with the super expensive internals when going on stock sleeves anyways?

Plus Eagle rods are lighter than all the others and will allow for better revs using a lightweight flywheel and stuff.

 

Thanks for the info, I will keep collecting tid bits like this, I will return with some questions if you don't mind.


I am a fan of the concept here, it has been a part of my approach, I just don't know enough, first hand to decide yet which products/concept to apply.

 

This is the build sheet for my engine, it should all be done next week hopefully. Todd at built z motors is doing it. Eagle rods are fine, they have been around a long time. Dont listen to people that tell you they are made out of poo.

Pistons – Arias Extreme Duty 9:1 CR (estimated power rating above
> 1300-1500rwhp!)
> Rods- Eagle
> ARP hardware- Main studs
> ½” head studs, block machined, installed with use of timeserts, torqued
> down to 100ft lbs
> overhaul gaskets- every gasket new from Nissan
> Headgaskets: HKS-
> rear main seal
> main bearings
> rod bearings
> thrust washers
> machine block (with use of torque plates)
> balancing
> polish crank
> redeck heads and block- to ensure mating surfaces between the block and
> the heads are exact
> machine heads to accept larger head studs
> clean parts- prep before assembly- clean oil channels, outer surface, etc.
> rev-up oil pump- disassembled and thoroughly cleaned
> Cams- stock
> Headwork- none
> Valves- stock
> Springs- JWT upgraded
> motor assembly – timed, with front and rear timing cover installed
> head assembly- rebuilt with new valve stem seals

 

Based on my experiences:
*Arias or Arias ED 8.5:1 or 9:1 CR pistons 0.020" OB with an unsleeved block
*Eagle Rods
*ARP mains
*ARP L19 head studs
*HKS head gaskets
*GTM turbo cams w/valves
*Koyo Radiator
*Some sort of oil cooler
*APS Extreme fuel system
*Fcon Vpro with all the goodies (knock/AFR amp, etc)
*HKS EVC5 boost control with 10-12 psi setting and a 15+ psi setting
*3.3 pumpkin swap
*ATS twin with HD pressure plate, ATS triple, or Exedy Multi-face carbon D-core clutch
*upgraded Forge actuators. Get strong ones
*APS 3.5" test pipes
*Your choice of APS 2.5" or 3" catback. If you go with the 2.5" (because the 3" is insanely loud) just make sure your actuators are STRONG ->17+ lbs springs

Also consider upgraded axles

You can get to 550 without the cams, but with a full build up and spending big money on the fuel and EMS setups, get the cams done while the motor is out. I didn't do cams when my motor was apart because i didn't have the extra 1500- 2 grand at the time. I am making enough power for my liking, but to go higher, I would need to swap out actuators, again, or run a bigger exhaust, and would most likely put in some cams which is much less cost effective after the motor is back together and in the car.

 

Agreed, I didn't mention that as it's not "in the motor" but yes, i am going to axels & Quaife LSD

Yes, I'd like to do cams, now, but it's not 100% at this time but I know what you are saying.

 

GTM and Violent Racing seem to be the most proved Z experts in So. Cal. It would be hard to beat either of those shops.

 

out of those two, i would definitely choose GTM as they can tune Fcon

 

I bit the bullet and decided on jwt cams, as i have a revup. It is best to do it while the heads are off.

 

Ziv and all the other posters are pretty much spot on.

First, GT Motorsports should be your first choice for install/tuning services. They tune the FCON, UTEC, and everything else. I would choose the FCON, easily, since you have a great tuner in your area.

For the power you are looking for you, basically need forged shortblock and cams. Headwork is not needed for this power level, although you will get more power at less boost pressure with headwork. You dont have "have" to upgrade the APS fuel system. You could just run larger injectors.

You are on the right track with the exhuast. Switch to the 3.5 inch APS test pipes, coupled with their 3 Inch true dual exhaust.

Sounds very straightforward, and will give you many thousand miles of high boost pleasure.

And welcome back...let me know if you need anything.

 

Sharif when you gonna have GTM motor packages on yer website? GTM web won't be up for a while.

 

I know this is going to go sour, but I have my concerns about GTM.

Unfortunately, based on what I know not being first hand, I can't come out and say "I know this, and this, and that, and the other thing" so that is not likely to happen.

On the other hand, i have had excellent exchanges with Violent Racing, and they very much appear to be on target with my line of thinking and have been very comfortable with them.

I have made all my choices with THIS car, based on "all information available" right behind what my gut has told me, and "so far (knocking on wood)... so good).

Actually, I did have (2) of my own first hand witness of something's that IMO were not 'good' in my book, and that alone would have me personally shy away from GTM, at least for "tuning" needs...

Bottom line here, there are only a few people/shops out "here" that can do any of the things we're talking about here.

GTM is one of them, and they can't be bad or anything, right? or they wouldn't be here.

The rest of this is all about personal preferences and opinions, and we all know how that goes, right? right.

As always, and sometimes to a fault, I put myself out there with my honesty.

Thanks again, and continued thanks to those that contribute to my knowledge, service, experience, and enjoyment that I have had in this arena.

The good news, once I have the hardware together, and assemble my final design plan, i have the tuner portion of this on standby, so no worries there.

 

Joe, you may want to give Danzio Peformance a shout too. They are in Lake Elsinore but they do some really good work. If you remember Brad from Turbonetics (GM) they built the motor on his G and he has been very happy with their work so far. They even got cam phase timing to work on the VQ using a Haltech on a VQ powered sand rail. www.danzioperformance.com is the site. Chris Muzio does all their building and tuning and does some amazing stuff.

 

hey man, where/how you been?

Thanks for the info, I will add it to the list of "things and places to consider"... I remember you talking about them before, and if you still are, that is a good sign.

 

I've been good dude how about you? Its been a busy year for me. Weddings, business trips, SEMA, I think I've been away from home more then I've been here honestly. As for Danzio yeah I talked good about them in the past and won't stop. Chris Muzio over there is freaking amazing at what he does. I talked to him for a while at SEMA as I had heard he finally got the Haltech to control cam phase timing but didn't believe it. He broke down everything he did to make it work and I guess made another 20 WHP across the ENTIRE power band just by messing with the cam timing. Motor building well Brad is incredibly pleased with the job he did. Theres ZERO piston slap and the motor has done REALLY well so far through all the beatings its gotten from Stage 2 testing. I don't know what they charge but I can tell you that although I will likely get my parts from Sharif I will most likely be having Danzio build my motor for me as they are local and assuming my block is usable still at that time I don't need to send anything out...

 

Also, for the power level that I am going to, is FULL EMS really necesary?

I know a lot of people go around saying "oh yea, it's the only way to go" but as we all know, a high percentage of those, shouldn't be giving advice to anyone.

The great thing about piggy backing, as I have recently learned differently, is that you get to take advantage of what the stock ECU is doing for you.

it's taking care of a thousand things, and it's been setup to take care of those thousand things, a thousand different ways.

So when you go to a FULL EMS solution, whoever is doing that for you, has to try and compete with what the manufacturer has done after spending unknown hours and dollars, to make the engine run "just so" under "as many" conditions as they can consider and test for.

What is going on with the piggy back solution, in this case with APS is that the stock ECU is doing everything it should be doing that you "like", as well as allowing the rest of the TT kit to do it's job, and give you "want".

What I used to think it was doing was, taking over at points the stock ecu either doesn't handle well, or can't handle at all.

That is NOT the case, what it is doing, is convincing the conditions are identical to what it expects, although all the "extra" stuff is actually happening...

So with that said, do you really want someone to tune the full gambit of what it is to have an engine "run" under all conditions/circumstances/environments?

If this is for an occasional weekend car, or better yet pure race/track car, then this is "the only way to go" but for any of you, that is like me, daily driving and playing at the same time, you may want to think again.

Also, don't forget there are safety mechanisms in the factory ECU as well, that aren't quite easily replaceable.

Just asking and/or providing food for thought here...

thanks as always

 

I think that really depends on the tuner hoenstly. A good tuner can setup a full stand alone to be even better at controlling the engine than the stck ECU...

 

Exactly. The stock ECU does a fine job of starting, idling cruising the car. With an FCON or other properly setup standalone, it will operate exactly like stock under non boost conditions, and deliver a precise, safe, and consistent tune under heavier load. Also keep in mind, the stock ECU on the 350Z always remains in place, to control body and safety functions of the vehicle, such as traction control, VDC, ABS, your gauges..etc..etc.

IMHO, piggy back ECU's do not provide the level of resolution, control, and consistency needed across the ENTIRE power band and all load sites, that a stand alone provides.....for high boost. For low or moderate boost, they work quite well, and the margin for error is much greater. I've said this a few times before, but just because something has been done before, doesnt mean its the best or safest method to use.

Joe, I would suggest taking your car to the shop you trust most. I would not but much credence in an arbitrary story that you hear about EITHER VRT or GTM. Just remember, that even if 97% of their customers are happy, you are likely to here from the other 3% that were unhappy. And there are ALWAYS two sides to every story. So I think it would be unfair to pass judgement, or mischaracterize either shop.

Take a tour of both facilities, and speak to Sam and Mike, and then you can decide from there.

If Mike at VRT was tuning the AEM's or FCON's, I would suggest them as well, but GTM really has the tuning platform needed to get you safe and consistent results, IMHO.

 

They are already on the website. Stroker kits, shortblocks, and heads.
http://www.forgedperformance.com/store/home.php?cat=264

 

Sharif, you know me, and you know I'm as much a straight shooter as they come, and I think no less of you, and trust you above just about anyone else out there. I've never BSd about anything, and I've always done what I said I am going to do, to the best of my ability. I don't think that is common in this arena.

I didn't pass judgement, just shared my concerns, and I even gave them a "they can't be bad statement" based on EXACTLY what you said. I also made it crystal clear as to what I was basing that on.

If you want me to check out GTM, I'd do it on that request alone.

As I mentioned about the tuning aspect, I have that taken care of, so if I have someone do my engine, I'll have it tuned elsewhere.

I'm just not certain i'll need the whole EMS, and I say that because the power I am looking at running is not into the "concerning" arena I've been acustomed to. Also, I've driven/run with/against several cars in my time with full EMS and, I "just don't see what it did for them", and the few that I've driven, weren't daily drivers, and not something I would/could drive daily, so I have NO EXPERIENCE with full EMS on a daily driver that alternates as a toy.

Thanks again Sharif, it's always good to see/hear from you.

Joe