IP05G35

The Mobil 1 5w-30 truck & suv is the same as their regular 5w-30 but with more additives. The HM 10w-30 looks like a very stout oil to me.

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

just hit 3000 miles. time to drain and get my rotella analyzed!!

Nederlander75

Actually if you look closes the Truck has better pour point that may indicate better basestocks, ie more Grp IV or V.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...bil1_5W-30.asp

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Thank you, and welcome to the forum.

I don't typically speculate about such things anymore, because if the oil shows excellent UOA results then it doesn't matter what the base stock or add pack characteristics are.
That being said, M1 undoubtedly uses some G3 oil in these formulas, just as they do for all their 5W-xx and 10W-xx weight oils in order to meet J300 specs for the grade, but the level of PAO, AN, and AW/FM additives all vary depending on the blend. The lower pour point does suggest either some AN or PAO increase over the regular blend of 5W-30, but the viscosity stays the same. They could have increased the amount of PPD in the oil, but that seems unlikely considering the HTHS score and flash point are also the same. So, I would assume they use more AN as a carrier oil in the formulation, along with an increase of G3 oil in their G3/PAO base stock blend. I don't think the PAO was increased because they also increased ZDDP, Moly, and Boron in the oil, and PAO's are a poor solvent, so increasing the PAO won't help with carrying these additives. So, my guess is an increase of their Synesstic Alkylated Napthalene to carry the increased additives, which would lower the pour point, and a commensurate addition of G3 to maintain J300 specs for the weight. At least when it comes to discussing the T&SUV 5W-30 and the HM 10W-30.

If you don't mind, please post the UOA's here, or PM me and I'll give you my e-mail address. I would love to add your results to the comparison chart. Good luck with the RP samples, please let us know the average of your two runs with the 5W-30. There have been three reports so far, and they all sheared down to a thick 20 weight oil. I'm not sure how long you plan on running yours, but 6k mile OCI's should be expected from a synthetic oil. I'd be curious to see the RLI. That's too expensive for me, but I really dig bio lubes and think there is a future there. I know they have a blend made with Terry Dyson's input for the fuel dilution issue found in DI engines, that has shown good UOA results.

Thanks for posting, I'm glad you have an interest in this. I dig Altima SE-R's btw, nice car. If you check the southwest forum, you'll see some track days come up for the CO crowd once Spring is here. It'd be great if you could make a few.

Will

anhhuy vu

iTrader: (1)

Anything on Red Line Oil or Eneos.

Nederlander75

I try to look at base stocks because of the environmental aspect as well as the petrolium economics. The environmental aspect should be obvious, group V bases usually come from renewable sources that are less friendly to planet to produce. Although I can see group III+ in the same niche possibly. Then second the extended train option for PAO/Group IV biased oils. This can lead into the economic impact of requiring less oil for lubricating alllowinng for more petrolium available for fuel in addition to less demand allowing lower prices. Just my preferences, but I agree that a superb oil can be based more on additives ie Schaef's and Penz Plat.

UOAs from my VQ equiped Altima SE-R.

Oil Brand Amsoil 100% Syn Mobil1 EP
Grade 10w30 5w30
Miles On Oil 5245 5311
Miles On Car 12811 25534
Time On Oil 5 months 5 months
Avg Amb Temp 85F 72F
Avg MPG 26.8 26.5
Avg Trip 37 miles 25.5 miles

Wear in PPM
Iron 13 17
Chrom 2 1
Lead 2 5
Copper 64 8 Scewed by break in leaching
Tin 0 0
Alum 7 6
Nickel 0 0
Silver 0 0
Silocon 27 21
Boron 164 88
Sodium 0 0
Magn 203 28
Calc 2919 2706
Barium 0 0
Phos 814 962
Zinc 972 1014
Moly 69 127
Titan 0 0
Van 0 0
Potas 0 0

Fuel% <1 <1
Visc@100c 10.57 9.84
Water% 0 0
Soot/Solids% 0 0
Coolant No No

TBN 6.26 4.37

Nederlander75

I have come to expect shearing with RP, but it doesnt seem to affect its performance in my EVO at least. I get good UOAs from it there and the EVO is tuned a bit, but I think the tuning has actually helped in the engine wear dept cutting fuel dilution signficantly. It does always shear to a thick 20wt as you have found. I run it 5K in that car and will do the same in the Alti for comp sake.

Thanks for the compliment in the Alti, I may try to make a track day if only for a beer.

I have added a Speed6 to the stable as well, still breaking it in though. So far no fuel dilution on dino and its a direct injection engine. I have been stocking up on GC so I may just run that in the Speed6 unless the RLI shows beyond outstanding results. Beyond outsanding bc of its price. Also considering NEO as its had some well beyond outstanding runs in the EVO in the past. Different applications all the way so only UOAs will show for certain, but looking for a starting point at the moment.

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

just drained my Rotella Synthetic 5W40 today, and installed my Fumoto oil drain valve. The oil sample is all packaged up and I'll ship it out tomorrow. I am anxious to see the results of this oil.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the results. I'll average the 5W-30 into the others. The 10W-30 result's high copper isn't anything to do with the oil, so I won't average it into the results. The M1 blends look typical for those weights, except for the high copper. Higher than average Fe is a M1 trademark it seems, but not worrisome. I am not impressed with M1 blends for the money, except for their 0W-40 and the old 0W-30R. I am thinking about giving the new 0W-30 oil a try. M1 oils aren't bad by any means, but there are a number of different oils in these weights that offer better UOA results under the same oil change interval- for less money.

RLI is a good choice for the environmental aspect, not to mention very compelling UOA results. Like you said though, it had better be VERY compelling results to justify the high cost. Have you considered a slack wax feedstock (XHVI) base oil? From what I understand they might be the only base-stock not made from a petroleum by-product (aside from BioLubes). PAO's are synthesized from ethylene gas, and Esters, while most are taken naturally from coconuts, are still processed with crude byproducts. Shell's XHVI can be found in some Q Advanced and Pennzoil Platinum oils (5W-40 European formulas) and in Rotella T-Syn- which is in my Z right now and I'll eventually get around to sending in for a test.

If you get good UOA's from RP 5W-30 in your Evo, that's surprising considering the higher than average wear metals it shows in the VQ. I would imagine the turbo would shear such a thin oil down with little trouble. Yeah, it will be interesting to see the results from your VQ using RP 5W-30. There are a lot of RP fans on here that might like some good news about that weight of RP.

Evo, SE-R, and a Speed6? Wow. Bring any of them you like to the track. The Evo would be the natural choice, but you'd probably get more attention with the SE-R. I don't think I've ever seen an owner track theirs. And we don't drink any beer during track days, LOL. Maybe after, but usually everyone's too exhausted to drink and then make the long drive home.

Will

ZeeForce

Should have UOA back for RP 10w-30 on Monday.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I wasn't paying enough attention to your samples earlier. As I was entering the 5W-30 into the comparison totals, I noticed the 10W-30 looked nothing like M1 10W-30, the boron, MoTDC, everything was off. Then I finally saw that the 10W-30 was Amsoil. Makes more sense.

But one thing that came up was the high silicon levels for both samples. I won't add the 5W-30 into the samples, either. The wear metals are typical and fall right in line with the other M1 5W-30 UOA's done, but I have a policy on not compiling UOA results with high silicon or any amount of fuel/coolant dilution, since these can alter the results and not reflect the oil's characteristics. I would say that both of these oils protected well with high silicon in them, and that is worth noting, but I won't use the results.

That being said, have you changed your air filter recently? Any small vacuum leaks?

Will

Nederlander75

The high sil is from gasket leachate. Thats why the wear doesnt look aweful so says OAI. Ive seen the same results from other Alti VQs and heard the same from those users. Filters were both new for these runs. No vacume leaks detected either. Interestingly, given the leachate factor the Ams run is impressive on filtration to me as I was using a single panel gauze filter, Green brand.

ZeeForce

Here is my UOA for Royal Purple 10w-30. The history on the car: 2005 MT Non Rev up, original owner, ran Castrol GTX 5w-30 until 37k miles, then switched to RP 10w-30. This UOA was on the second oil change with RP. On this oil change I replaced it with Mobil 1 0w-40

The 05 is a DD and 90% freeway driving.

I also have a 06 MT Rev Up with the revised V2 engine. This is running Castrol GTX 5w-30, still in the break in period. Oil changed at 800 miles, currently at 2600 miles, it will go out for a Dyson Labs UOA.

-Curtis

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

I always find it curious that Blackstone says their Universal averages for the VQ are taken at 4400 miles. Are there that many people who change their oil at 4400 miles? Seems odd to me. 3000 miles has been ingrained in everyone's mind and nissan says to change it every 3750......4400 just seems like a strange amount of mileage to base their averages on.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

The copper is higher than most other oils, either from bearing wear or valve guides. Most likely the bearings. It's not bad, just higher than average although right in line with the other RP 10W-30 samples.

The rest of the wear metals look very good. Low Pb and Chromium compared to the other RP samples of this grade, and much better than the 5W-30 averages.

High TBN for this oil, wow. For 4k miles, I'd expect it to be lower, but if you're 90% freeway driven it would make sense.

Still, for 90% freeway use, the oil has sheared to a 20 weight. What's up with RP 30 weight oils always shearing to a 20 weight? Shearing to a 20 weight and high copper seems to be the trait for RP, much like high Fe is a common trait for M1 oils. I wonder if there is something RP uses in their oil, maybe sulfur, that doesn't like yellow metals.

Thanks for sharing your UOA, I'll add it to the comparison totals for this weight.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, but most of the folks sending in for a UOA are using synthetic oils, and if you check the average mileage of the UOA's we've collected- they're all around 4400 miles, just like this last one with RP. So, I think the use of synthetics has encouraged people to go for longer than average oil change intervals, and rightly so.

Will

UltraYellow350z

iTrader: (6)

Will,

If you don't mind, I am seeking you expertise for a quick answer. I saw previously in this thread you indicated that USA-Castrol Synthetic is still a decent oil and is good for 6k. My question is most likely a question that is in 75% of ppl's heads:

Just taking what we can purchase from Walmart, what seems to be your recommendation between Mobil 1 5w30 and Castrol Synthetic 5w30 for our VQ engines.

Do both have intervals for changing at 6k?

Thanks for all your time in compiling this information.

ZeeForce

Will,

Thanks for the feedback on RP, so much more than what Blackstone gives me. Looking at their comments I would have been happy, but your analysis of the numbers are much more informative.
Bearings and shearing of the weight is not what I want for protection.
So much for RP, now the wait until the Mobil1 0w-40 is due for a UOA.

Thanks again

Curtis

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Both oils are fine to use.

The castrol Syntec 5W-30 is not on the recommended list because the Syntec 0W-30 has better average results, more samples taken, and costs the same. So, I would use it over the 5W-30, hence why it is on the list and the 5W-30 is not.

The Castrol Syntec 5W-30 does have better average results than the M1 5W-30, looking at the comparison chart:

Syntec 5W-30 has lead and copper wear of 5 and 2 ppm, respectively
M1 5W-30 has lead and copper wear of 7 and 8 ppm, respectively

Syntec 5W-30 has chromium and tin wear of 1 and 0, respectively
M1 5W-30 has chromium and tin wear of 2 and 1, respectively

The Syntec 5W-30 doesn't have a TBN test done on any of the VQ35DE samples, but judging the TBN of the HR samples, the oil looks good for a 6k mile OCI.

The M1 has a really high TBN, and will easily last for a 6k mile OCI.

Between the two, Syntec has lower wear rates than the M1, so for a 6k mile oil change interval, I would pick the Syntec 5W-30 over the M1 5W-30 if it was a choice between those two.

Does that make sense? Reading the comparison charts to discern which oils are a better buy was supposed to be easy, but if it's confusing let me know why, so that I can make doing the steps I just went through easier for people to do on their own.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Thanks,

BL comments aren't going to be made as a comparison to other oils, they just let you know if anything's an issue.

There is nothing wrong with using RP as your oil, and there is nothing to worry about in your UOA result. I only compare the results to other averages in order to look for trends that exist from one oil to another. These are the trends that have come up so far:

RP 30 weights shear down to a 20 weight oil- this is neither good nor bad. The fact that it is so thin probably helps hp numbers and fuel economy. I find it interesting that it has a difficult time staying in grade, but as long as the wear numbers are good, then it's not an issue.

The RP 10W-30 has an average copper wear of 9ppm, based on three samples. Your sample, the fourth one, has a copper wear of 6ppm. That's a good bit better than average, due to your mostly highway driving, but still higher than the Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 average copper wear of 3ppm. I mentioned this because if you are paying $6/qt for an oil and another synthetic of the same weight has, on average, half the wear for less than half the cost, then that might be worth knowing.

As far as being high, 6ppm is not high in terms of universal averages- in fact you are right in line with them. But, the copper is much higher than the lead or tin, or every other wear metal except for iron, which is 7ppm. Copper wear is high relative to the other metals, and while it is not anyhting to worry about, that sinmply strikes me as odd. Copper is rarely the highest wearing metal in an engine, especially with lead and tin wear as low as yours was. So, it makes me wonder about the addition of any sulfer additives, which are used as a surface hardener for most metals but causes corrosion in yellow metals- like copper. I find the wear rate interesting is all, and just speculated out loud about a possible reason.

Now, this oil looks pretty good, and would be a good oil to use, but let's compare it to another oil and see how the averages stack up against each other:
Castrol GTX 5W-30 vs RP 10W-30
Aluminum 3ppm vs 4ppm
Chromium 1ppm vs 1ppm
Iron 9ppm vs 7ppm
Copper 3ppm vs 6ppm
Lead 0ppm vs 1ppm
Tin 0ppm vs 1ppm

Now, I'm not sure where Roseville is in CA, or how the weather looks there, but if you can use a 5W-xx oil that costs less than the RP 10W-30 and produces better wear numbers, then that seems a good decision to me. The GTX will do fine for the 4k mile OCI you ran on the RP, for less money, and better average wear numbers. There is nothing wrong with your RP, and the sample you have there looks good, but I compare results to see what's better. There isn't one oil or weight that's "best", but there are several options that are better than the others. Finding out which ones are which is the main focus of this thread.

Will