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Old 06-07-2007, 11:21 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlsqba
Anybody else using Pennzoil Platinum that has bad experience... I need to change my oil soon and that was my choice...
I know having some oil loss sucks, but that is not always a sign of bad oil. I lost maybe 3/8 qt of Mobil 1 0W-40 this last oil change, my first time using this oil, and sent it off to Blackstone last week. We'll see what the results are like soon enough, but I have lost some oil with the old M1 0W-30 and never did with GC 0W-30. The M1 0W-30 results were just as good as what I had with the GC, and so I used that when I couldn't find any more GC on the shelves. Pennzoil Platinum will probably burn off more than the others being that is a Group3 oil (see definitions of oil groups back on the first page) and the NOACK numbers are higher. Higher NOACK numbers mean more oil loss to volatility, but that doesn't mean you are "burning" it from the oil making it past the piston rings. The oil just becomes a vapor, and the higher the NOACK of an oil, the more you will most likely lose in this way. Still, just as my own UOA's have shown, a little oil loss in this way does not mean the oil does a bad job protecting the engine. I think PP 5W-30 will be a great oil for the daily driven VQ that does not see any track time or go for extended drain intervals.
Will
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Old 06-07-2007, 11:22 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessional
I fell asleep after my last post... I posted my running UOW in my signature.

Our group switched to Amsoil 0W-30 in April, my next UOW should have a contrast against the prior 3 fluid swaps with RP 10w-30 at over 15k mi.
Thanks for posting your UOA results. I used added them to the comparison chart as an average. Can't wait to see your results from the TSO 0W-30. It's looked really good in all the other engines so far.

Thanks!!
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:24 AM   #43
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The first Post is updated when you get more info? Is there any way to maybe add a F/I list separately from NA list?
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Old 06-09-2007, 04:42 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by redline350ZZ
The first Post is updated when you get more info? Is there any way to maybe add a F/I list separately from NA list?
There is a separate comparison chart for F/I to compare, but only two UOA's done on FI engines so far. There isn't enough quantitative data to see any trends that one oil is doing better than another. At this point, my recommendations for the FI crowd are based on how well certain oils are doing in other highly stressed FI engines, such as heavily boosted Supras and STi's. The FI comparison is going to be interesting as most TT engines are buil blocks. The aluminum pistons, with their comparitively loose clearances, and various baring types used might make any trends from one oil to another impossible. Each engine is going to be different based on the builder and parts used, whereas the stock engines all use the same bearins, pistons, pumps, and clearances. So, as the data gets collected, there may or may not be trends that appear for the FI engine oil analysis like there are for the NA and stock engines.
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Old 06-09-2007, 04:58 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
Right now, Pennzoil Platinum or Schaeffers looks the best. M1 0W-40 and Amsoil 0W-30 look great too. When you're boosted, So far just M1 0W-40. But, I know one guy is using Eneos in his TT 350Z and will post a UOA on it, plus I'm hoping some of the Motul fanatics will post a UOA on what their using as well. Maybe you'll be the first. I think the new Motul 8100 X series formulations look good.
Will

So where can I locate these oil? Guessing I can't walk into the local Advance Auto and purchase. Gonna need to do a change when I return. Also any recommendations for tranny & diff? GREAT INFO none-the-less. Just wish I understood everything a bit more.
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Old 06-09-2007, 06:50 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_K
So where can I locate these oil? Guessing I can't walk into the local Advance Auto and purchase. Gonna need to do a change when I return. Also any recommendations for tranny & diff? GREAT INFO none-the-less. Just wish I understood everything a bit more.
Right now, Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 has done very well in three different engines, and the average results in the comparison chart reflect the consistantly great results. The 10W-30 is found in Advance Auto, Pep Boys, Wal-Mart, etc... The issue is, 10W-30 isn't the best weight for you in Colorado during the winter time. The 5W-30 should hold up well too, but only one UOA has been done on it in a VQ. Unfortunately, that UOA revealed a huge jump in lead after using the oil. This hints at excessive bearing wear. I don't think it was because of the oil but because of an additive the guy used. He's doing another UOA without the additive after another 3k or so miles and that way we'll see if the 5W-30 is really an issue in this engine or not. Until then, I can only say with confidence that the 10W-30 is a great oil to use, and that the 5W-30 should be just as good but I don't know for certain. As such, for the winter time, Mobil 1 0W-40 will be an awesome 0 weight oil for your engine.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:03 AM   #47
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OK... Thanks for the info. I'll come back to it when I return for R&R.

Sidenote... don't know if you saw but I did a little weight reduction. Braille Battery.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:03 AM   #48
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Here is my Mobil 1 0W-40 UOA. This was my first time using this weight, and I put just over 3000 miles of use on it, with two different track events included. The oil did very well, and I'm pleased with it. The results reflected the very low lead wear this oil has in other engines, with below average to average wear results in other metals. If the iron were a few parts per million lower, it would be a perfect performer. The viscosity was very thick still, and it had a high TBN to reflect plenty of life left on the oil for an extended drain application. I wnder if this oil will be as good over a long drain interval as the Amsoil is. The results are very copmparable between the M1 0W-40 and Amsoil's TSO 0W-30, but the TSO has almost twice the mileage on its average results. Although, none of the Amsoil UOA's reported any track time on it, either. So, for longer drain intervals, I still think the Amsoil is a better bet, but for normal drain intervals with track time, the M1 0W-40 is a great choice. Here's the results, and they have been added to the comparison chart for NA VQ35 engines.
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:23 AM   #49
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Hey Will

Just got a chance to get cought up on the oil UOA reading.

My current M0w40 is at about 2200 mi mark, I will be draining it soon and sending to the blackstone. I will do a TBN this time as it can help you in the analysis. I do have a track day on it as well (much lighter one than the previous Laguna Seca one, though), which kind of throws off the results. The next change will surely NOT include a track day, so that would be best for comparison (we'll know if the shearing was due to the track day or not).

I am growing to relaly like the oil, as I understand it, it's THE oil to be used in turbo cars that you currently recommend, right?
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Old 06-12-2007, 03:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Hey Will

Just got a chance to get cought up on the oil UOA reading.

My current M0w40 is at about 2200 mi mark, I will be draining it soon and sending to the blackstone. I will do a TBN this time as it can help you in the analysis. I do have a track day on it as well (much lighter one than the previous Laguna Seca one, though), which kind of throws off the results. The next change will surely NOT include a track day, so that would be best for comparison (we'll know if the shearing was due to the track day or not).

I am growing to relaly like the oil, as I understand it, it's THE oil to be used in turbo cars that you currently recommend, right?
Gurgen, first let me just say that you're a very good asset to the Z community with all the oil analysis you're doing, thanks.

Second, I like the M1 0W-40, it's the only Mobil product I would use. I think it might be one of, if not the, best oils to use that can be bought at a local auto parts store. I'm not sure if it is THE best oil to use for FI applications, but surely one of the best. I think your last UOA with the M1 0W-40 looked good for an engine still in it's break-in, and very impressive for one that is running boost at a racetrack. But, there simply isn't enough data to make such a bold claim as the best, and with built engines it's going to be tough to tell just what the best oil is.

Built engines will run different bearings with different bearing clearances, different pistons with different piston to wall clearances, different build and finishing techniques are used, and different turbos, seals, etc... depending on the builder. As such, I think it might be harder to see any real averages from one oil to the next when everyone with a built engine is running a different set-up. The only sure-fire way to see what works is for each owner to run their own used oil analysis log and check for drastic changes.

By comparison, a used oil analysis from stock block VQ35 users is easy to average, since the oil is being asked to perform in an equal setting. The clearances and materials are the same from engine to engine. The only difference is in the driver and additives. The first is not as big an issue as some people think. Look at the results of Amsoil ASL- four seperate engines with different drivers living in different parts of the country, and all had high lead wear. The higher the mileage, the worse it got, with some guy taking his oil to 9k miles showing 40 ppm of lead in the oil. There is a consistancy in that oil to show high lead wear, despite different drivers who probably had very different driving habits. In other words, the folks who track occasionally and/or drive the car "hard" on the street, are not going to see a drastic change in the results over the average unless something breaks. Modern oils are not so sensitive that a track day will alter the wear results more than a few ppm from being consistant with the average for similiar mileage. If it does, then we know it just wasn't that good of an oil anyways. Additives, however, can alter the results drastically, and as such, I can only hope someone who uses an additive fills in the blank asking about any fuel or oil additives used when they submit their oil for testing.

Now, in a built engine UOA, I think the results can vary drastically from one engine to the next using the same oil simply because the engines are built different. I don't know this for a fact, but it is my best logical guess. When there are more FI UOA's submitted, then we'll be able to get some evidence that either supports my notion, or refutes it. If the results do vary from one engine to another in drastic measures, then the best shot we have at coming up with the "best" oil for FI users is to break down the data by engine builder. For example, if GTM uses the same parts and build techniques with every VQ engine they make, then they could very well do a UOA on one of their engines and that oil's results would be pretty indicative of what another user would experience running similiar boost. As such, it would be great to see more companies actually doing this for the built engine/FI guys. This is where your UOA's are so valuable.

I would recommend that you get another UOA done at similar mileage with the M1 and see how much the wear metals have dropped. That will give us an idea of how much closer your engine is to being broken-in. Then, I would try something else and see how that works in comparison for a similar drain interval. i know this makes you kind of a guinea pig, but maybe your builder will run a UOA on one of their engines that is similar. Soon, wear trends will become very apparent. Then, we can look and see if one oil is really doing better than another, or worth the money. I look at Amsoil TSO 0W-30 and see that the wear is higher than the M1 0W-40, but with twice the mileage. If I cut the wear numbers in half to get a fair comparison under equal mileage, then that oil looks very good, but not so good that I would spend the premium and shipping costs over the M1. It's really only better by a very slim margin. I think your engine might be no different, and we'll see some "off the shelf" oils be able to stand as good, or maybe better, to the wear results of the "boutique" oils. My recommendations to try after the M1 0W-40 are the same recommendations I have made to every FI guy who has PM'd me for suggestions:

Shell Rotella T-Syn 5W-40
Eneos 0W-50
Motul 8100 X-Lite 0W-30
Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40
Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W-40
Redline 10W-40 (I know it's not very impressive in the stock VQ, might do better for the FI guys since it's geared more towards their needs)
Mobil Delvac 1- 5W-40 (Mobil1 Turbo Diesel Oil is the exact same stuff, 26% Esters!!)

The Shell and the Delvac are both easily found and inexpensive compared to the other guys. The rest might do better, might even blow the "regular" oils away. There's just only one way to know for sure. But, consider that the Delvac and Shell are both API classified as a Heavy Duty Motor Oil (HDMO) and designed for the stress and abuse FI puts on an engine. Also, MIAPLAYA has a great UOA using Turbonetics' oil, which is a re-branded HDMO diesel lube of some kind. Turbonetics won't tell me who supplies them. I think it's Delvac, but I could be wrong. BTW, I'm running that Shell in my car right now to see how well it works in a NA VQ engine.

Will

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Old 06-12-2007, 03:26 PM   #51
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Great response, thanks for your kind words.

Before I read the list at the end, I was going to offer to try the 300v, which from your writing is the only 100% PAO oil (unless the 300v is listed as one of the 8100 series oil, i thought it was different).

I guess it's either that or the Amsoil TSO, as I can purchase it off-the-shelf at SuperAutbacs.

Thanks for your help, and pelase keep up the great work.
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Old 06-12-2007, 03:51 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Great response, thanks for your kind words.

Before I read the list at the end, I was going to offer to try the 300v, which from your writing is the only 100% PAO oil (unless the 300v is listed as one of the 8100 series oil, i thought it was different).

I guess it's either that or the Amsoil TSO, as I can purchase it off-the-shelf at SuperAutbacs.

Thanks for your help, and pelase keep up the great work.
Motul has a whole line-up of stuff that is all a combination of Group III/IV/V base stocks depending on what bottle you're looking at. The exception is the 300V, which is a full Ester base oil. Other full Ester base or majority Ester base oils are Silkolene and Redline. I would be curious to see the 300V in your engine, but that stuff is otherwordly priced. I am guessing it won't perform so superior as to justify the price in a daily driver, but I could be wrong. I posted a virgin oil analysis of it in the thread on oils for FI in the FI forum. Any of the oils in the above list have shown good results in other built FI engines that see track time and are daily driven.
Will
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Old 06-12-2007, 05:02 PM   #53
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resolute,
I noticed you recommend alot of 40wt oils for boosted applications, with a mix of 30 wts as well. It seems the 40wts offer better protection or similar for high quality 30wts such as your comparision of the tso 0w-30 to m1 0w-40, however, do you take into account the loss in power due to the thicker oil? I'm not saying it is significant, but while the tso 0w-30 performs the same as the m1 0w-40 as far as wear, the 0w-30, being a thinner oil, should put out more power with no other changes, which should pay for itself right there. This is totally thereotical based on fluid properties, but something to think about. I'd love to here what your thoughts on this subject are.
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:27 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlude97
resolute,
I noticed you recommend alot of 40wt oils for boosted applications, with a mix of 30 wts as well. It seems the 40wts offer better protection or similar for high quality 30wts such as your comparision of the tso 0w-30 to m1 0w-40, however, do you take into account the loss in power due to the thicker oil? I'm not saying it is significant, but while the tso 0w-30 performs the same as the m1 0w-40 as far as wear, the 0w-30, being a thinner oil, should put out more power with no other changes, which should pay for itself right there. This is totally thereotical based on fluid properties, but something to think about. I'd love to here what your thoughts on this subject are.
I usually recommend a 40 wt for the FI guys simply because the HTHS scores are higher, and the film strength greater, with a heavier oil. However, M1 0W-40 is a very thin 40wt vs GC or Amsoil TSO which are very thick 30 wt oils. The 0W-40 had thinned to near the same viscosity as the TSO, so there will be a pretty marginal difference, if any, between the two in terms of power loss to viscous drag. Many tribologists have told me the real difference in viscous drag will not be in any significant hp increase to the wheels, but in overall fuel efficiency when monitered over the course of the OCI. There are companies who like to use dynos to show a power gain, but any gains on a chassis dyno are always questionable, and I would take protection over the minimal hp freed up. This is where an oil like the TSO shines, as it seems to hold up over longer OCI's than the M1, and so the slightly less viscous drag might make a measurable (if small) difference in mpg while still protecting the engine.
Will
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:50 PM   #55
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This might be a dumb question. I realized that I was adding 5-30 Mobile 1 to 10-30 Mobile 1 which was used for my last oil change. Upon checking my oil level I noticed I was a little low and after i added maybe a quarter quart I noticed it was a different weight. Is this bad?
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Old 06-12-2007, 08:53 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barzten1
This might be a dumb question. I realized that I was adding 5-30 Mobile 1 to 10-30 Mobile 1 which was used for my last oil change. Upon checking my oil level I noticed I was a little low and after i added maybe a quarter quart I noticed it was a different weight. Is this bad?
If you are worried, why not change it out just to be safe
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Old 06-13-2007, 06:06 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barzten1
This might be a dumb question. I realized that I was adding 5-30 Mobile 1 to 10-30 Mobile 1 which was used for my last oil change. Upon checking my oil level I noticed I was a little low and after i added maybe a quarter quart I noticed it was a different weight. Is this bad?
You are safe blending any oil that is API certified SL or SM. Both of those oils are rated SM, and will blend with each other, or any other oil regardless of synthetic or not. However, just an fyi- while is not recommended to mix oil of different weights, it has been done before and will not be detrimental to your engine. Besides, all you did was top your crankcase off with a different weight, so it's really no big deal.
I would say your biggest problem was wasting your money on Mobil 1 5W-30 and 10W-30, both of which are ok oils, but don't protect any better than the less expensive Castrol GTX.
Will
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:11 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
I usually recommend a 40 wt for the FI guys simply because the HTHS scores are higher, and the film strength greater, with a heavier oil. However, M1 0W-40 is a very thin 40wt vs GC or Amsoil TSO which are very thick 30 wt oils. The 0W-40 had thinned to near the same viscosity as the TSO, so there will be a pretty marginal difference, if any, between the two in terms of power loss to viscous drag. Many tribologists have told me the real difference in viscous drag will not be in any significant hp increase to the wheels, but in overall fuel efficiency when monitered over the course of the OCI. There are companies who like to use dynos to show a power gain, but any gains on a chassis dyno are always questionable, and I would take protection over the minimal hp freed up. This is where an oil like the TSO shines, as it seems to hold up over longer OCI's than the M1, and so the slightly less viscous drag might make a measurable (if small) difference in mpg while still protecting the engine.
Will
Great post, but even if the hp gain was 1-2 hp using tso compared to m1, the $20 of extra cost should pay for itself considering people pay hundreds of $ for a few ponies with other mods. Add in the savings in gas and the cost difference is a moot point.
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:32 PM   #59
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Resolute...thank you my brotha!
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:54 PM   #60
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This has helped me so much
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