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Old 08-02-2007, 12:54 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightner22
Just got another analysis for M1 5w30 this time on a 10,000 mile interval. I'll try to post it up, but other than a slightly high iron count due to the extended drain interval, it looked pretty good again and they stated I could try 11,000 if I wanted to, which I don't.
I would love to see it and add it to the comparison chart average for M1 5W-30. If you can, please host it or add it as an attachment. If you had Blackstone do the UOA and you already deleted the jpg they e-mailed you, they keep an online file now with your analysis hosted, so you could copy and paste it from their server if you wanted.

Will
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Old 08-02-2007, 12:57 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USN HM 350Z
I am not even going to bother with the analysis for the 10-40 Eneos. This stuff pours like water and burns off quickly. I have NEVER burnt off oil to the point that I had to add more in my car.
Would it help if I said pretty please? Come on, for the benefit of the FI community, let's see how it did. Maybe it is a really volatile oil or too thin for your build's clearances, but protected well. It would be a surprise to see it with low to now lead and iron wear, and could possibly be a better oil for the NA guys then. Only one way to really know for sure. Sucks that it was an issue for you, the stuff isn't cheap and really hyped by their vendors.
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Old 08-02-2007, 01:09 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zazoozle
Thanks for all this really great and detailed info - I love it!

My Q: It seems that even in recent months, formulas for certain oils have changed. I have read and learned so much about oil on this page, embedded links, and google searches, but I still have questions.

Just a thought, but Perhaps someone would like to post what oils are "best" or proven safest for

Cold Weather -40 to 65 degrees F
performance (NA mods)
daily driver (typical street driver)
FI needs

Perfect Pleasant Weather 40-90 degrees F
performance (NA mods)
daily driver (typical street driver)
FI needs

Super Hot Weather 70-120 degrees F
performance (NA mods)
daily driver (typical street driver)
FI needs

For instance: I live in santa barbara, cali where our weather is 40-100 degrees. Our manual recommends 10w-30 or 10w-40 for warmer weather (5w-30 for cold weather)...but why do I see all these 0W-xx?

I really want the best of the best for my needs - $ is not an issue and while I would like to change it more often than needed, I may go longer because I am absent-minded. I drive the car pretty hard and have plans for light modding - No FI though. I would like to try a synthetic or Synth blend, but It is hard to make a decision with so many choices and opinions.

Forgive me if I p1ss anyone off with YET another oil Q. There is just so much info!
As far as ambient temps go, that's what the "W" (stands for winter) rating on the bottle is for. Lower numbers flow better when cold. Keep in mind that oils are always thinner when hot, so don't confuse a 0W-xx oil with being a thin oil. It just means that it flows better when cold to reach engine parts faster.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a 0W-xx oil in a hot climate, you just aren't taking advantage of the cold flow benefit is all. In a hot climate, like Pheonix in the summer, a 0W-40 and 15W-40 oil would both be about the same viscosity at start-up and there would be little difference. Both oils would heat up pretty quick to their respective 40wt grades. So, it doesn't matter.

But, if it was a cold climate like here in Colorado in winter, then a 15W-xx oil would not be doing the engine any favors, as the oil would be much thicker than the 0W-xx and take longer to circulate until it gets up to operating temp. The 0W-xx would flow better in single digit temps and protect my engine better after start-up while the 15W-xx would be like molasses (exageration) compared to the 0W-xx. Once up to operating temps, both oils would thin out to their respective weights and the W rating would not be in play, since the second number is the oil's weight when hot. So, even in a cold climate, a 0W-40 and 15W-40 would have the same viscosity when up to temp.

Hope that clears things up a bit. The reason so many 0W-xx oils are popping up is because companies can sell the same oil formulation in any climate. As discussed above, the 0W-40 would work just fine in Pheonix as well as Anchorage. I'm thinking of re-writing the viscosity information on the first page to help make it easier to understand.

Will
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:14 AM   #84
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Man... something funky is going down. I'm taking the oil sample when half of the oil has drained out like they say... either motul is crappy, something is wrong with my motor, or i'm taking the sample wrong.... we'll wait and see how my amsoil turns out when I do it....

Sampling is as fallows:

begin to drain oil, let it run into pan until pan has about 2.5 qrts of oil in it, then place oil sample bottle in oil path tell full and remove from oil stream. Let oil drain the rest of the way.





motul eco-nergy 5w30

so far it seems the motul is as bad or worse than the royal purple and BAD for VQ35DE bearings... or as stated I have a problem or are not taking the oil sample right.

Last edited by shushikiary; 08-03-2007 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:41 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
Would it help if I said pretty please? Come on, for the benefit of the FI community, let's see how it did. Maybe it is a really volatile oil or too thin for your build's clearances, but protected well. It would be a surprise to see it with low to now lead and iron wear, and could possibly be a better oil for the NA guys then. Only one way to really know for sure. Sucks that it was an issue for you, the stuff isn't cheap and really hyped by their vendors.
Will
Sorry already changed it. only had 2K on the oil at that point. Giving Lucas Oil a try right now.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:56 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shushikiary
Man... something funky is going down. I'm taking the oil sample when half of the oil has drained out like they say... either motul is crappy, something is wrong with my motor, or i'm taking the sample wrong.... we'll wait and see how my amsoil turns out when I do it....

Sampling is as fallows:

begin to drain oil, let it run into pan until pan has about 2.5 qrts of oil in it, then place oil sample bottle in oil path tell full and remove from oil stream. Let oil drain the rest of the way.

motul eco-nergy 5w30

so far it seems the motul is as bad or worse than the royal purple and BAD for VQ35DE bearings... or as stated I have a problem or are not taking the oil sample right.
You are taking the sample right. It's the oil I'm guessing. First, the Motul Eco-Nergy is a group3 with some ester thrown in. It's not one of their best oils for a high oil shearing engine like the VQ. The X series is a higher Ester content oil with more additives, but I have seen other engines that are hard on oils (Audi V8 comes to mind) look very similiar in terms of the iron, copper, and lead. So, the VQ would not be the first to show this oil is weak.

That being said, I think your TSO analysis will be the telling tale. Comparing it to the two Motul samples you've done will show for certain. Maybe the French just don't make a good oil, LOL. What we can say with some certainty is that the 300V racing oil is not much better in terms of wear than the 5W-30 Eco-Nergy you just used for the daily-driven VQ. I bet you're glad to have them tested, otherwise you might have just gone on using it. With wear this high, you might see some issues pop up down the road as a result. Thanks so much for your time and money for the UOA, pending the results of your TSO analysis, it might hopefully save some people some money and engine wear.

And before someone brings it up- it is NOT your engine. The filters are working well based on trace element and silicon levels, and there is no trace of fuel, moisture, or coolant in the oil.

Will
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Old 08-06-2007, 01:33 AM   #87
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thanks for taking the time for this analysis. seriously!
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:16 AM   #88
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Here are my blackstone results. I ran stock oil from dealer oil changes until approx 15k miles. Then switched to Mobil1 5w-30 and have been runnin on that since my past oil change when the dealer switched me to 10w-30 for no apparent reason. Had an oil cooler gasket leak and had to refill during this interval which should be coming up soon. i'm waiting until 30k mi.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:58 PM   #89
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Thanks for your contribution, I'll add it to the average. The M1 5W-30 looks just like the other samples from the VQ using this oil. Only iron was high enough to really notice- but that's a M1 trademark. The rest of the samples are average compared to other oils. I am not impressed with the M1 5W-30 for this reason. It's a decent oil, but for so much money, you could be using somehting like their 0W-40 or even Castrol GTX and see lower lead and copper for the same mileage on the oil. The TBN is low for a full synthetic, imho. 2.4 means you really used up the life of this oil in just 4k miles. And while the VQ35 is a high stress engine on oils and really knocks the TBN down fast, I think that's too fast for a fairly high-priced synthetic.

The first oil sample you sent in looks different. Was that M1 5W-30? The moly is way low, and the calcium higher for their current SuperSyn formulation. Was that the dealer oil? (they use Esso, also an XOM product) or was that an older tri-syn M1 formulation?

Will
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Old 08-06-2007, 01:03 PM   #90
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I just read the 1st page. I must say I like it alot. It clarified alot of questions I had about weights.
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Old 08-06-2007, 01:15 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vo7848
I just read the 1st page. I must say I like it alot. It clarified alot of questions I had about weights.
Thanks, that's good to know. I'm constantly editing the pages in an effort to make the material easier to read. Good to know it's not written too confusing for any good use.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:34 PM   #92
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Too bad my car has the oil consumption problem! It pisses me off!
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:15 AM   #93
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Resolute,

How does Castrol GTX 5W-30 or 10W-30 rate? I don't see your comparsion charts. I live in South Carolina & have used Castrol for years.

Last edited by jmark; 08-07-2007 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:28 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
Mobil1 0W-40- This is a very robust "off-the-shelf" oil that's easy to find for the daily driver who does track days as well. Low shear and really good to average wear results combine to make it a versatile oil for regular or extended oil change intervals in any climate.
Resolute, can you look at post #93 at the attached link and tell me what you think about it? Thanks.

https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/290440-project-arc-engine-bay-build-in-progress-5.html
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:47 AM   #95
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see i understand the 0w30 amsoil stats, ...but i dunno why every tech recommends i florida that i use 10w30 because of the heat.
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:56 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBlover69
see i understand the 0w30 amsoil stats, ...but i dunno why every tech recommends i florida that i use 10w30 because of the heat.
Habit probably.

It used to be that a 10W-30 would be a thicker oil than a 5W-30. The technology to create a heavy 30wt meant that it could not be a 5W when cold. So, it would have to be a 10W-30 to be a heavy 30 weight oil, and a 5W-30 would traditionally be a thinner 30 wt oil. For warmer climates a 10W-30 was the recommended oil weight since it's hotter out and the 10W-30 would be thicker and offer better protection against the heat.

Now, technology allows an oil to be a thick 30wt, 40wt, or even a 50wt oil and also a 0W oil when cold. It's the best of both worlds. The thing to remember is that an oil is ALWAYS thicker when cold than when hot. It just changes grade from a 0 wt to a 30 wt oil, but the actual viscosity of the oil gets thinner.

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Old 08-07-2007, 07:58 AM   #97
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cool, so you think i would have no issues whatso ever in florida climate with 0w30. I learned more from this thread then the entire forum lmao.

My next oil change im contemplating a 0w30 amsoil change.

there bypass oil setup is really nice also but not for my Z i would get that on a fam vehicle.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:06 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBlover69
cool, so you think i would have no issues whatso ever in florida climate with 0w30. I learned more from this thread then the entire forum lmao.

My next oil change im contemplating a 0w30 amsoil change.

there bypass oil setup is really nice also but not for my Z i would get that on a fam vehicle.
That would be a great choice for you. Unfortunately, Amsoil has just changed the formulation of the 0W-30. I don't have any data on how well it performs, but I suspect it will be fine. It is thinner than the formula tested here, but still retains the PAO base stock formulation.

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Old 08-07-2007, 08:16 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
Thanks for your contribution, I'll add it to the average. The M1 5W-30 looks just like the other samples from the VQ using this oil. Only iron was high enough to really notice- but that's a M1 trademark. The rest of the samples are average compared to other oils. I am not impressed with the M1 5W-30 for this reason. It's a decent oil, but for so much money, you could be using somehting like their 0W-40 or even Castrol GTX and see lower lead and copper for the same mileage on the oil. The TBN is low for a full synthetic, imho. 2.4 means you really used up the life of this oil in just 4k miles. And while the VQ35 is a high stress engine on oils and really knocks the TBN down fast, I think that's too fast for a fairly high-priced synthetic.

The first oil sample you sent in looks different. Was that M1 5W-30? The moly is way low, and the calcium higher for their current SuperSyn formulation. Was that the dealer oil? (they use Esso, also an XOM product) or was that an older tri-syn M1 formulation?

Will
All the samples were M1 5w-30 from the dealer. The first sample was the first i took after switching to synthetic from the dealer's oil. No clue what forumlation it was.

I'm currently running M1 10w-30. What would you expect for my next analysis? Is it detrimental to switch oil weights? What would you recommend running in SoCal. Thanks.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:39 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izmir41500
All the samples were M1 5w-30 from the dealer. The first sample was the first i took after switching to synthetic from the dealer's oil. No clue what forumlation it was.

I'm currently running M1 10w-30. What would you expect for my next analysis? Is it detrimental to switch oil weights? What would you recommend running in SoCal. Thanks.
The M1 10W-30 results are about the same as the M1 5W-30. If you use a 10W-30, which is just fine for SoCal, then I would go with the Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30. Better performance than the M1 of the same weight. It's a great oil for regular drain intervals of 3k miles and no track days.

Will
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