Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

Nederlander75 is right on the money. Castrol Syntec 5W-30 has done well in several 5k mile OCI, but if you are not tracking the car or running some kind forced induction (any use where high temperature stability is prized) then give GTX a try for 5k miles. I think you will find, as the data collected so far shows, that it is a well-formulated oil for the stop-go commuting of most owners. It won't break down during occasional stop-light drags, sludge your engine, or be a waste of money for the average 350Z owner. If I were you, I'd save some coin and give it a shot. If you want to be sure it's adequate for your needs, then get a UOA to be sure. A UOA and using GTX will give you peace of mind while easily proving less costly in the long run than unnecessarily using a synthetic.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Other VQ35DE engines. The 35HR engines have their own set of averages, but I have seen some techs not distinguish between them in their report.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Well... Thanks for sharing the UOA. This is the first I've seen from Torco. Are you forced induction or is this from a NA build?

First, I think you might be wasting your money. Torco, like most Motul blends and some other specialty brands, are designed with an emphasis on being a racing oil. Racing means high loads, thin viscosity, and extreme temperatures. The thin viscosity is the result of high temps and doesn't hold up well to the high loads. This is why racing oils like to use a lot of ester additives, or a G5 ester base stock. Looking at the Moly, ZDDP, and boron levels to get an idea of the add. pack, I'd be willing to bet that Torco is an ester base stock oil such as the Motul 300. And like the Motul oils, it doesn't shine in a typical application. Most oils designed to protect and maintain film strength in the extreme conditions of racing don't have the properties to excel at protecting the engine internals during the cold-start your engine goes through every time you take a trip in your car. Hence, it is important to decide how you are really using your car.

Now, not knowing if you are FI or NA, and how you use your car, I can still objectively say that 2ppm of Chromium for such low mileage is about the worst recorded for a VQ engine. Your rings might still be seating, but with no fuel dilution issues and after 2600 miles I would expect 2ppm of Chromium total, not for just this one 930 mile OCI. I would also be disappointed in the Pb wear of 6ppm for such low mileage. Now, this isn't to say that your Torco oil isn't protecting the engine adequately, but rather, that there are probably much better options out there.

Much like most people really don't need to be using a synthetic oil, most owners don't need a racing oil, and those who use a racing oil on the street often suffer the downsides of using the product rather than capitalize on the real benefits which racing oils offer.

All in all, this is one of the worst UOA's I've seen from a VQ engine, and you could probably get lower wear for less money if you changed oils. Unless this really is a racing engine.

Will

Mike Wazowski

iTrader: (113)

Will,

Let me know if you need to up date anything on this thread and I will help you out.


John

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I need to update the comparison charts and I have some new data that I would like to add to the first page. Whenever I get around to doing that, I might end up needing some posts bumped to make room, and I'll be sure to ask for your help. Thanks, John!

Will

whiggy

Thank you Will & Nederlander75, I appreciate your input. What I probably should have mentioned in my original post is that I just got the car a little over a month ago and that the previous owner used M1 synthetic on every oil change. He was not sure about the weight because the oil changes were done by his buddy who is a Nissan tech. I was excited about getting the car so I forgot to ask him about the OCI but I still have his number :-). Now I wish he hadn't told me any of this because it would make the choice easier for me.

The car has 81K miles and does not burn any oil and I want to keep it that way. Now, it would make sense to continue using the same oil since it has shown good results... except that I always over analyze things. I gather that M1 other than 0w-40 is not that good for our engines and that GC 0w-30 is very good. To make the decision more difficult for me, I have always used only Castrol GTX 10w-30 in all my cars (live in FL) and changed the oil myself religiously every 3K miles. None of my previous cars burned any oil (and that includes another VQ35DE) so I kind of trust Castrol the most. It probably doesn't even matter but I would be concerned going back to dino oil from synthetic. I do not mind the price premium of synthetic as long as I can go with the 5K OCI, maybe even 6K. Also, I found GC 0w-30 in a local Autozone.

So, am I right to assume I would be OK with either M1 0w-40 or GC 0w-30? Are they about the same thickness?
(Sorry for being so **** about all this)

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Hi whiggy,

I wouldn't say that any one oil is "best" and very few oils would I say are "not good" for our engines. The fact is, most of the average wear metals for each brand and weight are all within one statistical deviation of the universal average. The exception has been mostly high-end racing oils used for street duty, and they would be the only oils I would actually say are "not good" for most people's use.

That being said, what I (and I think Nederlander75) was pointing out is simply that there is often not a noticeable benefit for running synthetic over a conventional for most users. Running a good quality synthetic is fine for your engine, but it might not be needed for most drivers. Therefore, you could save some money going for a good quality conventional instead. The noticeable exceptions would be:
1. -for really long oil change intervals, where a good synthetic would be worth while for the long term stability inherent in the synthetic base stock. If you want to entertain a 10k mile oil change interval, then a conventional oil would not be for you.
2. -high temperature, high stress environments like road racing or turbocharger center sections.

Now, some synthetics offer additive packs that excel in performing other functions of the engine oil better than a conventional oil could. Usually, the synthetic base oil has a higher viscosity index and more stability than a conventional oil base stock, and therefore the additives used in a conventional oil to help meet manufacturer specs could be "replaced" in terms of volume with other additives that are more suited for cleaning varnish, sludge, and other functions. A lot of people run synthetics for this reason as well.

In your case, there shouldn't be a need for a synthetic oil, and there is nothing detrimental to be had in switching back to a conventional oil if you wanted. If you like Castrol products, the the 5W-30 GTX has excellent results in the VQ and would be a great "bang-for-your-buck" oil. Easily one fo the best in terms of wear for very little money. If you wanted a synthetic, then the Castrol Syntec 5W-30 has also shown some of the better wear numbers (not really any better than GTX, though), and should be able to handle a 6k mile oil change without worry. I am fond of saying that of all the M1 products, the M1 0W-40 is the best. I wouldn't see any reason to use it over another oil for your needs, though. And the Castrol options I listed have slightly better wear results, although not so much to be statistically significant. The GC 0W-30 is about the same shear stable viscosity as the M1 0W-40 and along with the M1 0W-40, would be ideal for the user doing heavy track days and/or running some kind of FI. You could certainly use either of them for your car without worry, but I don't think you'll be getting your money's worth out of them.

Hope this helps clear things up.

Will

mthreat

iTrader: (16)

Thanks for the feedback Will. This is an N/A build. The car usage is street (aggressive/spirited driving) and I track it at least one weekend a month (very aggressive, but not wheel-to-wheel racing). I can get the Torco at the same price I pay for Mobil1 0W-40 - about $6.50 per quart. But the cost of the oil is really not the issue -- oil is cheaper than a new engine, so I want to use the best oil whether it's $2/qt or $10/qt. That said, I have read your high opinions of M1 0W-40, and I'm going to try that for my next oil change (this week). I'll put 1000 miles on the 0W-40, with at least one track weekend, and have it analyzed (and post the results here). Since the engine is still breaking in, I'm changing the oil pretty often. Plus I like to change the oil after a track event anyway, so I usually end up changing it with less than 2000 miles on it.

I'm all for experimenting and looking at the data, so I'm happy to try different kinds of oils for the sake of posting oil analysis results, as long as the oils give at least reasonable protection for street & track driving. Also, in case it makes any difference, I'm in Texas so the temperature will probably be 60-100 degrees F until October.

Nederlander75

You could look at Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 as well given regular track use. The FI guys have great results with it and Wil has had a 1 year 6K run on it that was quite good IMO. This is in the front page results. Rotella is also noticably less expensive than M1, produces better wear typically. My thoughts

Nederlander75

Correct, my thought was that the GTX would be a good choice given the cost to benefit results.

whiggy

Thank you, guys! I told you I overanalyze things :-)
I promise I won't bother you with this any longer.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

No worries, it's no bother.

Will

Robert_K

iTrader: (25)

I've noticed since adding the Rotella that my oil pressure seems to be a bit higher. Even after the oil has time to warm up (180*+).

singh

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I noticed my oil pressure is higher at idle too. Up until I hit 22k on my odometer I have been using Castrol Syntec 5w-30, but I recently changed out and I am now using M1 0w-40. After a good drive, the 5w-30 would idle at 25-30psi. And now the 0w-40 idles at 30-35psi.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

You both were using relatively light 30 weight oils which met ILSAC GF-4 "energy conserving" requirements before switching to thicker 40 weight oils. Viscosity is measured in terms of a fluid's resistance to flow. By default, higher viscosity (aka "thicker") oils will typically increase the oil pressure at operating temps compared to lower viscosity oils. This is normal, and for your TT engine Robert, not really a bad thing. The downside to using a heavier grade oil is a slight increase in pumping losses (more work to maintain same volume of oil flow with a higher viscosity) compared to lower viscosity oil. This typically results in slightly lower mpg.

Will

Robert_K

iTrader: (25)

Thanks Will. Just read my recent report. I'll try to get the full report up by next week.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Cool. Looking forward to seeing it. It's literally blizzarding outside, btw. Horizontal snowfall with maybe 50 yards visibility. Currently 17 degrees outside. Texas looks better and better everyday.

Will

Robert_K

iTrader: (25)

Attached it below. No snow here... T-shirts & shorts here.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Of all the M1 blends, M1 10W-30 has the least amount of PAO base stock, and is in my opinion, the worst formulation they sell. The issue lies in the fact that people still demand an antiquated grade of oil such as 10W-30. This is an issue because XOM spends millions in making arguably the world's best PAO base oils which can achieve SAE grades of 0W-100 with less than 3% VII. This means that in order to make a high-end synthetic 10W-30, they would have to use a PAO whose natural viscosity is easily obtained with low-end G3 base oils. Since all PAO base stocks must use another base oil as a carrier, and XOM's prized napthalene product has a natural viscosity index too high for such a low grade, they simply took the cheap way out and dumped a load of G3 oil in the mix with some PAO. This allows the heavier weight waxes in the G3 oil to naturally "thicken up" when cold, which increases the viscosity of the oil to make the measured 10W-xx grade. Meanwhile, the little amount of PAO they use keeps the pour point nice and low, and still qualify as a PAO synthetic. This is why I say the M1 0W-40, which costs the same as the 5W and 10W blends, is the best option for the money if you want to use M1 products.

All that to say, I'm not at all surprised the M1 10W-30 looks like complete *** in your engine. This oil had the bejeezus sheared out of it, and is nowhere near a 30 weight oil anymore. It's actually thinner than most 20 weight oils I've seen. This is a real issue for you, since an oil's ability to resist shear under extreme pressure is a function of its viscosity. This is why the new VHR engines reduce revs and power when the oil temperature becomes too high, since an oil becomes less viscous with heat. The high Fe content is more than likely coming from the cams or buckets. Possibly timing chain/oil pump interface wear. These areas, especially the cam/bucket interface, have high pressure loads where the sheared oil would fail to protect against wear. The high chromium also indicates that your piston-to-wall wear is rather high compared to most FI engine's UOA results, and certainly worse off than all the stock engine's UOA results I've seen. The fuel dilution isn't a good sign, either. Chances are, your rings are wearing and you've got fuel getting into the crankcase from excessive blow-by. The cheaper base stock used in the 10W-30 is not going to handle fuel (which is a solvent) very well. The fuel dilution only makes the oil shear issue worse.

Drive it the same with the Rotella in as you did during this sample, if you can. Change the T-Syn at 4500 miles and get a UOA. Let's see how much improvement we can get with just the oil. I predict a MUCH better UOA with the T-Syn. (Please tell me you did get the T-Syn 5W-40 and not the regular Rotella 15W-40 diesel engine oil)

Will

Robert_K

iTrader: (25)

Whoa! Again good info!!! Some I understand and some is over my head. However you did give me a fright and I went to the garage and confirmed the Rotella T-Syn 5W-40.

Basically I gather that the M1 10-W30 is garbage for any F/I VQ. You mention ring wear but isn't that a known problem for a stock N/Aed modded to F/Ied vehicle? What also concerns me is the piston-to-wall wear you mention. Sounds like I might need to start saving for a built motor. Hopefully the Rotella will improve/help my VQ to give me some extra time. Again... Thanks for breaking these reports down for the Z33 community!

EDIT: Oh! Don't worry... My driving habits won't change.