wren57

iTrader: (34)

Ok guys, hear me out on my idea and gimme feedback. We all know that the colder the air, the denser, the more power. That being said, most cold-air-intakes draw cold air from the wheel-well area, but by the time the air is carried through the aluminum tubing (which is right next to the engine), it becomes hot, reducing density and power. My parents own a company, and part of what they do is spray spage-age insulation on factories, boilers, basically anything that needs it. It completely keeps the two temperatures seperate. Thermal-wrapping of an intake drops temps from around 150 to ambient air-temp, causing a positive increase in performance. This is spray-on insulation, and it sprays on to look like white paint so can be painted over or polished to look original. I am thinking of offering this service for intake/headers/exhaust to help out my fellow enthusiasts unlock a few robbed HP. I was thinking somewhere around $25+ shipping for intake, $50+ shipping for headers and $100+ shipping for cat-back exhaust... let me know what you think, thanks

here is the info on the insulation:
http://www.envirorem.com/thermalinsulation.html

sschmuve

iTrader: (1)

How long do you think air molecules are hanging out in the intake? Do you think they are moving slow enough to absorb that much heat? The intake manifold is really hot, since it sits on top, connected to the head. Imagine how much power is lost there (Using your logic). The air is moving so fast, I'm sure the power lost is negligable. Does anybody have proof that insulating really helps?

wren57

iTrader: (34)

I see your concern about this, and understand where you are coming from, as I too have doubts about many of the products coming out, but this works. It is simple physics. The more cold air in, the more hot air out, the better. Insulating the manifold would not work because you could not insulate all the way around it, so heat would still get in. Air in the intake does move fast, but if you dont think it heats up very quickly, you are wrong. We are talking about air here, not water, air heats up VERY fast when exposed to high temperatures. As for wrapping the exhaust/headers, it decreases the pressure in the system causing less backpressure, and also substantially decreases underhood temps... Im happy to entertain any and all questions, I want people to be as informed as possible about this.

ares

iTrader: (2)

the piping is aluminum, and plastic, both excellant insulators... not sure how much better it could get, you might have some benifit, but I bet people are going to want to see some sort of gains for it, and since intakes alone are getting near nothing, its unlikely youll get any more.

elektrik_juggernaut

Aluminum isn't really a good insulator....it absorbs heat....I'm extremely interested, but i don't wanna lose the polished look of my intake.....the filter is in the right place....lots of nice flow......then it gets to that hot aluminum part, expands, and slows things down.......please let me know if you would be able to provide a polished exterior to cover the insulation......they were trying to do what you're proposing when they gave out those SS heat-shields with my CAI Kit, but i think the insulation could definitely be better.....and the water jacket mod that SkiDazzle did could help keep the manifold temp low as well.....let me know if the polished look is still possible

wren57

iTrader: (34)

Sometime this week I will get some polished aluminum tubing and spray on the insulation and try to figure out how to polish it. Keep in mind the insulation has the look of smooth white paint, so this might be difficult, but Iwill let you know...

AndyB

Not only is aluminum NOT a good insulator, it is an AWESOME heat conduit. That is why almost all heat sinks are aluminum. It carries a lot of heat quickly.

We do a similar insulation trick on Durangos. There is a large pipe intake kit and the aluminum pipe is ceramic coated to cut down heat transfer. I am not sure if the difference can be measured, but it is done.

You can contact http://intenseperformance.com/ for more information.

Oh yeah, his ceramic insulation (like the kind they use on headers) also looks like metal. It's nice looking.

uklooney

Wouldn't the insulation material need to be coated to the inside of the intake to prevent heat transfer from the metal to air. Any metal parts would be heated by conduction through other connecting metal parts, rather than radiation/conduction through the air/metal surrounding it
This sounds completely mad to me

elektrik_juggernaut

Hmmm.......the INSIDE.........insulation, and polished looks........uklooney, i think you're on to something.........now i'm totally intrigued dammit!........wren57, is the spray nozzle small enough to allow you to spray the inside of the intake?

teh215

iTrader: (8)

I would never spray anything on the inside of the intake tube, especially something that can be polished. The way that aluminum expands and contracts with heat would probably lead to cracking of the spray-on and thus foreign object in the cylinders which is never good. There is insulation tape that can be bought to wrap the intake tubing that will cut down on heat transfer. This tape can also be done on anything under the hood to help reduce temps but, I would be careful since it may promote rust.

Fëanor

This was brought up in a different thread recently. Supposedly, most aluminum intakes are coated with some kind of polymer to give a bit of insulation. But I doubt a thin clearcoat insulates as well as non-metallic piping.

<hint>
A resin/composite intake would be ideal. It's as smooth as polished metal and makes an excellent heat insulator.
</hint>

In any case, this isn't going to buy you very much HP. A cold air intake is going to buy you maybe ten (?) degrees colder air vs. a really crappy stock intake. Heat absorbed through the piping walls, at worst, is going to take back one degree or so. You'd have a hard time consistently seeing the difference on a dyno.

You could also solder a few dozen Pentium heatsinks to the outside of your intake manifold for a similar effect, but you'd open your hood at the risk of ridicule at best, and an *** kicking at worst.

ares

iTrader: (2)

owell take it how you will, off injen.com

MYTH: Polished aluminum piping retains more heat thus reducing horsepower.

FACT: This is false. Injen Technology conducted tests at a certified laboratory to measure temperature levels inside of the intake tube.
No evidence was found to support the notion that heat retention was increased in polished piping.

elektrik_juggernaut

But they sell the intake with a heat shield, if that were true, there would be no need for it.

ares

iTrader: (2)

perhaps thats to sheild it from sucking in hot air?

dvlad

The heat shield is only for the filter element. Not for the lenght of the piping.

This topic is very interesting. But, with Injen being a top brand, their testing and information can't be disregarded.


dan

elektrik_juggernaut

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about?The filter element doesn't have a heat shield. The only heat shield that comes with the Injen CAI goes on top of the stock EXHAUST MANIFOLD HEAT SHIELD . Injen instructions:

3. Position and align the new stainless steel heat shield over the stock heat shield. The bolt pattern will be the same, replace the two m10 bolts removed earlier in step 2.

Injen is a great company, but not perfect. Their first intake design didn't have the inline filter that it now comes with. To make a blanket statement like "their testing and information can't be disregarded" is naive and ignorant. If you even have the Injen CAI at all, dvlad, i would suggest you take a look under your hood right now. Everything on your version may not be where it's supposed to be.

wren57

iTrader: (34)

no, you would not need to coat it on the inside. the insulation works both ways... you say heat will transfer from the metal to the air if you insulate the outside, but how will the metal itself get hot? it wont... I know there arent tremendous gains here, Im not trying to say that, but a 2hp difference, for $25 isn't too bad... thats $12.5/hp... think about that, $1,250 for 100hp... yeah, sign me up for that!

Landbarger

iTrader: (2)

sounds to me like uklooney was talking about where the aluminum of the intake connects with the metal intake manifold. that makes me wonder if you meant to cover the whole thing, including where you clamp it on to the manifold. is this the case?

uklooney

This is probably the wrong thread, but I don't want to sound stupid with a new post.

If you had an o2 cylinder in your car, with a boost button to inject 'pure' oxygen into the intake at a controllable level (vaguely similar to a nitrous system), how long a boost would be sustainable. If it would work at all, that is.

uklooney

The aluminium intake would heat up (very quickly) due to conduction from the intake manifold (metal to metal). No amount of heat shielding would prevent this. If the intake manifold was non-conductive, e.g. ceramic, this conduction would be prevented, and heat shielding would then aid it the reduction of radiated heat absorbed from the engine.