Does the ECU readjust to mods or not???
05-22-2003, 07:20 PM
#21
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Originally posted by westpak
I think the problem is that the performance gains we can get from the mods available are so small (5-8HP) that it is hard to accurately measure whether the ECU is negating them or not due to the lack of accuracy of doing Dyno's, there are so many variables on getting consistant dyno runs that it is almost impossible to duplicate dyno runs.
Someone without mods could a dyno at say 4000 miles and then a follow up at 6000 miles without any mods in between and they will probably get different results.
It would be much easier if we had a mod that made like 25-30HP and was more noticeable to see if the ECU had an effect but as long as we are talking 5-8 HP will not have an answer.
Originally posted by stx
The companies that have investments in programming the ECU's are the ones feeding this misinformation about the ECU negating gains because they want to convince people they need to buy their ECU. What better way to do that then get on the internet and say the ECU negates all mods. Now I do believe you can get some gains from the ECU but I know they don't negate your mods. If it does it didn't negate my mods, so how do you explain that?
I think the problem is that the performance gains we can get from the mods available are so small (5-8HP) that it is hard to accurately measure whether the ECU is negating them or not due to the lack of accuracy of doing Dyno's, there are so many variables on getting consistant dyno runs that it is almost impossible to duplicate dyno runs.
Someone without mods could a dyno at say 4000 miles and then a follow up at 6000 miles without any mods in between and they will probably get different results.
It would be much easier if we had a mod that made like 25-30HP and was more noticeable to see if the ECU had an effect but as long as we are talking 5-8 HP will not have an answer.
Originally posted by stx
The companies that have investments in programming the ECU's are the ones feeding this misinformation about the ECU negating gains because they want to convince people they need to buy their ECU. What better way to do that then get on the internet and say the ECU negates all mods. Now I do believe you can get some gains from the ECU but I know they don't negate your mods. If it does it didn't negate my mods, so how do you explain that?
You two took the words out of my mouth!!!
Last edited by webcarconnection; 05-22-2003 at 07:24 PM.
05-22-2003, 08:14 PM
#22
Originally posted by xZlr8
good post!
1. Maybe the intake and exhaust are "pretty good" but they can be made much better (i.e. 23hp from intake and exhaust)
2.The ECU will detect the increased air from the CAI and compensate by increasing fuel, not retarding timing.
3. You're correct, dynos vary and this is probably the variation some, and i repeat some, are reporting (i've seen no such variation).
good post!
1. Maybe the intake and exhaust are "pretty good" but they can be made much better (i.e. 23hp from intake and exhaust)
2.The ECU will detect the increased air from the CAI and compensate by increasing fuel, not retarding timing.
3. You're correct, dynos vary and this is probably the variation some, and i repeat some, are reporting (i've seen no such variation).
1. your 23hp from intake and exhaust numbers are extremely high. although we all wish those number are true. its just hasnt been proven yet... after seeing the tuning in person with my car.. intake and exhaust is no way near that high.
2. The car is retarding the timing AND adding more fuel... TSI is actively monitoring timing at all times and confirmed this..
05-22-2003, 08:50 PM
#23
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Originally posted by Chebosto
2. The car is retarding the timing AND adding more fuel... TSI is actively monitoring timing at all times and confirmed this..
2. The car is retarding the timing AND adding more fuel... TSI is actively monitoring timing at all times and confirmed this..
so chebosto, what would you say on your best guesstimate on when your ecu can actually make our mods beneficial?
Or - when can I get mine?
05-23-2003, 06:00 AM
#24
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Originally posted by Chebosto
1. your 23hp from intake and exhaust numbers are extremely high. although we all wish those number are true. its just hasnt been proven yet... after seeing the tuning in person with my car.. intake and exhaust is no way near that high.
2. The car is retarding the timing AND adding more fuel... TSI is actively monitoring timing at all times and confirmed this..
1. your 23hp from intake and exhaust numbers are extremely high. although we all wish those number are true. its just hasnt been proven yet... after seeing the tuning in person with my car.. intake and exhaust is no way near that high.
2. The car is retarding the timing AND adding more fuel... TSI is actively monitoring timing at all times and confirmed this..
05-23-2003, 07:08 AM
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Just a theory
Please excuse my limited knowledge...Is it possible that when we add an intake and exhaust, that we see large gains because it isn't running as rich? Then as the Ecu learns over time, adds more fuel to keep 'its' ideal mixture, and negates some of the increase?
05-23-2003, 07:09 AM
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1. your 23hp from intake and exhaust numbers are extremely high. although we all wish those number are true. its just hasnt been proven yet... after seeing the tuning in person with my car.. intake and exhaust is no way near that high.
Injen actually dyno'd their **** to produce more than 23 whp from intake/exhaust. Whether or not I believe that is one thing, but we'll soon find out. So really, 23 is not extremely high, but it is a little ahead of the curve.
Personally, I think that the intake is absolutley fine in and of itself and did not see any reason whatsoever to install a CAI. If a CAI did show gains and there was no ECU conundrum, I could not see it producing more than a couple crank HP anyways. There is nothing restrictive about the intake and don't fool yourself, the stock intake is getting cold air from outside the engine bay.
If you think the stock exhaust is not more restrictive than an AEM you need some help. You can get 2 crank HP by running with an open filter element. When comparing the AEM to stock, there really is no comparison. The filter element can flow more cubic feet of air per minute, smooth metal flows air better than plastic, and the stock resonater, while it does take cold air from near the wheel well, chokes the hell out of the system. The AEM kit makes 8 WHEEL hp on my car. That's 10 at the crank, 1 mph and 0.1 seconds at the strip, it looks better, and it sounds great. I also think the stock intake is fine, but it is in no way better than the AEM or Injen CAI's.
05-23-2003, 04:34 PM
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You know, you are the only one reporting gains from an intake and I am sorry to say that even if they are real and accurate based on the same dyno, weather, etc., they are not substantial. I don't waste my money on piddly mods like 5 HP here or 10 HP there. For 250+ dollars I can think of much better things to do with my time/life than 5-8 maybe HP on my car. If you pick up in the 1/4 mile from 14.2 to 14.12 by putting on an intake, that's great. Cause guess what, I will run a 13.8 without spending a dime. Driving goes a lot farther than starter mods. By the way, you are going to have to prove that you gained 8 whp with your intake for me to believe you and I will tell you now, there is no way that you can.
05-23-2003, 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Chebosto
1. your 23hp from intake and exhaust numbers are extremely high. although we all wish those number are true. its just hasnt been proven yet... after seeing the tuning in person with my car.. intake and exhaust is no way near that high.
2. The car is retarding the timing AND adding more fuel... TSI is actively monitoring timing at all times and confirmed this..
1. your 23hp from intake and exhaust numbers are extremely high. although we all wish those number are true. its just hasnt been proven yet... after seeing the tuning in person with my car.. intake and exhaust is no way near that high.
2. The car is retarding the timing AND adding more fuel... TSI is actively monitoring timing at all times and confirmed this..
05-23-2003, 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by all_bark
so in a sense the ecu is somewhat negating gains. or at least decreasing our gas mileage!
so chebosto, what would you say on your best guesstimate on when your ecu can actually make our mods beneficial?
Or - when can I get mine?
so in a sense the ecu is somewhat negating gains. or at least decreasing our gas mileage!
so chebosto, what would you say on your best guesstimate on when your ecu can actually make our mods beneficial?
Or - when can I get mine?
05-23-2003, 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Mr. Potato Head
You know, you are the only one reporting gains from an intake and I am sorry to say that even if they are real and accurate based on the same dyno, weather, etc., they are not substantial. I don't waste my money on piddly mods like 5 HP here or 10 HP there. For 250+ dollars I can think of much better things to do with my time/life than 5-8 maybe HP on my car. If you pick up in the 1/4 mile from 14.2 to 14.12 by putting on an intake, that's great. Cause guess what, I will run a 13.8 without spending a dime. Driving goes a lot farther than starter mods. By the way, you are going to have to prove that you gained 8 whp with your intake for me to believe you and I will tell you now, there is no way that you can.
You know, you are the only one reporting gains from an intake and I am sorry to say that even if they are real and accurate based on the same dyno, weather, etc., they are not substantial. I don't waste my money on piddly mods like 5 HP here or 10 HP there. For 250+ dollars I can think of much better things to do with my time/life than 5-8 maybe HP on my car. If you pick up in the 1/4 mile from 14.2 to 14.12 by putting on an intake, that's great. Cause guess what, I will run a 13.8 without spending a dime. Driving goes a lot farther than starter mods. By the way, you are going to have to prove that you gained 8 whp with your intake for me to believe you and I will tell you now, there is no way that you can.
05-23-2003, 05:24 PM
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You know, you are the only one reporting gains from an intake and I am sorry to say that even if they are real and accurate based on the same dyno, weather, etc., they are not substantial. I don't waste my money on piddly mods like 5 HP here or 10 HP there. For 250+ dollars I can think of much better things to do with my time/life than 5-8 maybe HP on my car. If you pick up in the 1/4 mile from 14.2 to 14.12 by putting on an intake, that's great. Cause guess what, I will run a 13.8 without spending a dime. Driving goes a lot farther than starter mods. By the way, you are going to have to prove that you gained 8 whp with your intake for me to believe you and I will tell you now, there is no way that you can.
Since when is 10 hp for $213.05 a pidly mod? It looks nice. It improves the sound of the engine, and on top of that it makes a difference when combined with other pidly mods. Spend your money any way you like. Don't critique how I spend my hard-earned money.
Furthermore, I don't know why you assume you are a better driver than me simply because we have differing opinions. Are you some juvenile 16 year old? I'll run a 13.79 all day!
Just as soon as you prove to me that you are a better driver, I'll send over those dyno charts, pal.
05-23-2003, 06:22 PM
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The car Stock (K&N) put 246 HP 243TQ. With the Pre- Silencer remove went to 249 HP and 245.5 TQ. and w the injen it was 259 HP and 255 TQ in 5th gear. w the Grounding Kit put me in the 262 HP & 259 TQ but the car have 7,500 miles when test it.
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