my point in particular was to OP that... he can become a member of copy/paste army or the 101st keyboard brigade but in the end its doesn't matter what matter its as play cause it will all depend on the tuner. and i brought that other thread that the vendor here started trying to imply something which was totally incorrect and out of line.
Sure DDs may have some advantages here and there but in the end that will not turn a better "tune"

 

I was thinking he was in 3rd keyboard ranger battalion..

 

Imagine that another Dyno Dynamics owner trying to justify thier $110K dyno


Im not saying the DD isnt a great dyno (it is) But the misconceptions posted here are pure bs

The mustang, dyno dynamics and Land and sea all work on the same prinicples.

All eddy current dynos, all "simulate road load" (and really not any better than another)

All can hold a specific RPM , ramp rate, etc etc

and all "read lower than a dynojet"

I have dynoed extensively on Land and sea, dynojet, mustang, and DD.

the problem i see with most DD operators is they don tknow how to use the loading correctly
when a Car dynos on a DD then goes on my land and sea and the car spools 900 rpm sooner on the L&S
yet makes the EXACT same HP it shows me the loading was inappropriate.

Using a Dyno Dynamics will by no means make your tune BETTER.
THE TUNER will provided he knows wtf he is doing with his tools.

I can produce the same quality of tune on ANY dyno. Point is you just have to know how to USE that dyno

No limit, is that the extra special DD dyno that your Shop evo blew up on?

 

except this article mentions nothing about DynoJets load based setups.....

a Dyno is a TOOL - it is not the be all and end all in power measurement, it is merely a tool. A screw driver from Sears and a screw driver from Snap On perform the same basic function. The person TURNING the screw driver determines if the job is done properly. The same goes for dynos.

Which is MORE accurate? NONE...simple, plain and true. It is a tool for measurement, and can be a tool for tuning, but it is relative unto itself, and itself only. There are correction factors, and different manipulations one can make to various software to alter, ammend or otherwise change the results but none are a final authority. The best you can do is as logic would dictate. Use the same dyno for ALL tests, same correction factor (if applicable), same wheels, etc as you move through your rounds of modifications. While this will not give you the definitive power, it will, if nothing else, show your relative gains over time, as mods increase and as tuning is done.

 

Your forgetting 500whp on a Dyno Dynamics tuned car will drive cleaner than a Dyno Jet tuned car, every time.

 

hardly the case, unless you're giving a sales pitch to people (insert your favorite clutch, flywheel, dyno, injector, engine mgmt, dyno, etc etc here)

a well tuned car runs well on ANY dyno, and on the street. A poorly tuned car never runs well, under any condition. The tuner makes the tune successful, not the dyno.

 

Unless of course you prefer the old road-tune with a laptop and someone else driving technique

 

should always be done at some point with the datalogger, regardless of the dyno

 

Well, there are some things that a load based dyno can do, that an inertia dyno will never do. Notice I am intentionally NOT mentioning brand names.

When we tune with real-time standalones, like AEM and FCON, I tell customers they can watch, but the first hour or so is BORING. No sweeps whatsoever. I hold the load on each cell of the map, and adjust AF ratio and timing in real time, while observing the instanaenous power output readings that the dyno provides. This is how the OEM's calibrate the engines on the engine dyno, and the textbook way to calibrate an EMS.

I am not saying you can't get a solid tune from road tuning, or from interia dyno tuning. What I am saying, is that it can be hard to find the holes in your map, and maximizing power across all usable load sites, without some way of holding the load at a given RPM and load (boost, MAF voltage) while making changes in real time.

Sweeps serve a very important purpose as well, and any dyno can easily do this for you.

With system like the UTEC, or others that do not allow real-time tuning, you have to resort to sweeps, and doing some part throttle loading and datalogging...then making changes.

Z1 and others are right. The dyno is a tool, but the end result is in the hands of the tuner, and the car he is working with. But that's not to say that some tools can't better than others, and some tools make the tuners job easier, faster, safer, or smoother.

 

That's about the best way I've heard it explained.

 

i got this from mustang web,Mustang Dynamometers are unique. All Mustang Dynamometers are loading dynamometers designed to duplicate real world operating conditions This is by the website.

 

Perhas I should have explained myself differently. A true load based dyno, makes the job of tuning easier, and safer than going out on the public roads with a laptop. The sweeps, that Sharif described make tuning much easier and cleaner. It took me 4 hours to do an fcon tune in parth throttle on a inertia dyno, where as it can be done in 1-2 hours on a true load based dyno. Makes life easier IMHO.

 

absolutely agreed Shariff - some will, without a doubt, make it easier, quicker, and in the end, you pick your tuner by his abilities, not his dyno

 

Thanks Sharif!!! Great comments...

 

i dissagree in your case it would be just cause you are good tuner not just becuase you had a DD

 

I guess to ad a little more clarity to this conversation as a whole, there is one overarching point that has been made a few times.

Given a situation where all things are equal--experienced/well rounded tuner, all the tools necessary to complete a tune, etc--a load derived dyno will serve as a better tuning tool overall, than a inertia derived dyno. Reason being; a load derived dyno not only serves as a better tool for measurement but also provides better tune clarity overall when compared to an inertia derived dyno. Simply put, it can log and monitor conditions that cannot be as easily simulated via inertia dynos.

Yes, it is possible to get good results from a inertia derived dyno as we have seen from some of the best tuners in the world still using them. But as stated by several, the actual steps involved in achieving the same end results are
more easily and accurately achieved through load derived dynos; as a tune is simulated in one single environment versus differing environments (i.e. road tune, dyno tune, etc...).

And to another great point made. A Dyno like DD is worthless if a tuner isn't experienced on the device. A tool is only as good as the craftsman using it.

On a similar note, one could argue that a power saw is a better tool for building a house than a handsaw, not because they create different end results but because one is faster at accomplishing the same end result. How happy would a home owner be--considering hourly rates--if a contractor showed up to a job with a handsaw only?

 

Exactly..a better dyno will not make up for a poor tuner.

 

Yeah but deer and trees dont jump out in front of you on the dyno.

 

The XX% lower stuff is crap, like you say. But, I will admit that I readily correct sharif's numbers by 7.5%.

I've had my car on Sharif's DD twice, and within a week dyno'd on a local dynojet. Both times, peak hp(STD) on Sharif's DD was exactly 7.5% lower than the local dynojet's registered peak(SAE).

 

LOL!!!!