I have posted this in the Private classified thread, PM'd and emailed with no response, so I'm posting this here too. Note that while I love the short throws and feel of your short throw shifter we've still got problems. I either want it fixed (preferrabley) or a refund (if it can't be improved):


quote:
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Originally posted by Dweeb
The new bushing solved the noise/rattling, but I modified the socket just to make sure that there is no noise from it. Some people (originally from factory) have a lot of clearance/slop in the socket / yolk part, that can contribute to the noise. Just to be safe...

Dweeb
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No it didnt.

My mechanic just installed the titanium shifter with the new bushings. I helped him so I went through the process first hand.

1. The shifter as supplied would not allow the transmission to engage 5th or 6th gear. This was due to the reverse lock out tab being too long and its end not being tapered down from its top to its bottom like the factory part. Even with the 3 screw hold down bracket moved fully to the right position in its mounting holes the lock out tab would block the shifter from being able to move far enough to the right to engage either 5th or 6th gear. We had to solve this by both filing down the lock out tab on the new shifter and drilling out the mounting holes on the hold down bracket so it could be shifted further to the right. Oh yeah - the whole install was done using generous quantites of a silcone based noise damping grease.

2. After install I drove it home. All was fine - until I hit 4,000rpm. At that point a rattling mechanical clatter emnated from the shift **** and continued on up the rev band. And touching and even slightly moving the shifter to change gears at the 4,000 or higher level caused the sound to literally quarduple in volume. When shifting at 4,000+ were not talking rattle here. Were talking a mechanical chorus of rattling / clattering / whining that is of such riduculous proportions it would make listening to the radio a relatively fruitless pursuit.

I've had this shifter for well over a month and waited to install it until the "fix" was shipped. If this is fixed I dread to think what this thing would have sounded like without it.

As it is it is unusable. I now see you have a new O ringed plastic shift support. I was not aware this even existed. But I've got my doubts it would cure a problem as severe as this. In fact it strikes me that this is attacking the problem at the wrong end. Looking at the stock shifter after removal makes it clear how Nissan deals with this problem - they have a two part shift lever the top half of which is:

- Coated over about 2/3rds of it's top part by a damping plastic sheath.

- Physically decoupled by an elastomer from the lower part of the shifter, so that it is literally mechanically decoupled form the lower part of the shifter / bushings / plastic support housing and transmission.

It is obvious looking at their design that these choices were not done on a whim.

Your single piece metal shifter simply serves as a direct mechanical pathway for vibration to travel straight up to the metal ****. I sincerely doubt you can ever overcome this limitation with softer bushings and O rings. It strikes me you need to mimic Nissan's decoupled / damped two part shifter approach - or maybe make only the lower half of the shifter and put the decoupled Nissan upper half on the top of it. That would preserve the mechanical decoupling and surface damping of the original part and probably avoid this whole problem completely.

As it is I'm now an additional $60 in labor in the hole and facing having to remove the part to get rid of the noise - unless you've got some other ideas.

joe

 

after paying close attention to the rattle, I thing most of the noise is coming from the metal sleeve the bolt goes through. I know it's dampened by the bushing but I can hear it when going into second gear the most. Just a light tic sound but it's there... without the high rev. On high rev i bet that thing is where all the noise comes from. I was going to try plumbers tape around the bolt as thick as it would go and still get the sleeve on but I managed to strip the bolt or nut it goes through trying to tighten the thing enough to get rid of the rattle.
I suppose I will have to cut the end of the bolt off and try to extract the thing somehow when I need to take the shifter off.
I'm with you Joe... if the rattle isn't fixed I do not want to keep the product.
The plastic pivot holder is snug on mine also.

 

I still have the noise too , I think the extra length changes the angle of the linkage connection contributing somehow to the vibration. The slightly different design of the stock shifter doesn't look like all it would take to get rid if the bad vibes. like the short thows though

 

Sorry guys. i was out of town as usual. i will respond to all later today...

Dweeb

 

And I thought all the problems were fixed. I just ordered one, but now I'm having some serious doubts. Dweeb, please tell me with no BS why I shouldn't cancel my order.

 

Believe me, the differences are not slight. The effect of constrained layer mode damping (putting a tensionsed layer of dissimilar material over something that resonates - the plastic sleeve on the stock part) and the elastomer decoupling of the original two part shifter does do the job. The proof is that the stock shifter does not rattle. The decoupling of the stock two part shifter is so great that when you try to remove the stock shifter it will rotate over 90 degrees before the threads actually start turning. Thats literally the top half of the shifter shearing the damping material bteween the top and bottom parts of the shifter before it finally breaks the thread lock loose.

You add these two features up and thats how Nissan eliminates the vibration. I'm certain that if the stock shifter were a one part metal link it would rattle like hell too. Otherwise Nissan would not bother with thier design because it is both more costly and complex than a 1 part shifter - and auto companies don't make things more coslty and complex unless they have to.

I'm wondering if the stock shifter is a friction fit of the top and bottom sections. If so, in theory, they could be pulled apart and Dweeb could simply make a new bottom half with the necessary features on top to insert into the bottom of the top half of the stock part. That would preserve both damping techniques at work on the stock part while giving us nice short throws. The aspect of pulling apart and reassembling the stock part might be beyond the average user - it might require tools only a well equipped shop might posess. It might mean Dweeb would have to do it on a core part exchange basis, i.e., you send him your stock shifter and he returns you a modded one.

joe

 

Sanderman, sorry that I didn't respond to you sooner.

to all:

Actually I am not fulfilling any orders till I get this resolved. So anyone who ordered on this “shifter production run” batch can get their money back no problem.
I will be working on this issue again this week.!!!! Arghhhhhh............
What I don’t get is on some cars the setup is quiet, yet on others it makes noise. They are all exactly the same. They are done on a CNC machine with an accuracy of .0001”, so I am baffled. I am beginning to think it has to do with individual “Z”. Something that is a bit looser on one than the other.
Heck, trust me, this is pi****g me off more that you guys.
If anybody is in the Toronto area, and is willing to help out ( I will install and give them a free SS shifter) please let me know and I will show that it does not make excessive noise on their or on my Z. All I am trying to do is show that it does not happen to all the “Z”. And you will get a non-bias comment from someone else on this board.

One of the things I may end up doing is making it a kit that has the (shifter, new bushings, metal insert, control socket and the “O” rings) as one item. Then I will test fit everyone’s in my “Z” to make sure it does not make noise and then ship them. Will take time, but…. If it works in my Z, then there is something else wrong, not the shifters fault.

Dweeb

 

Thanks for the frank response Dweeb. I trust your integrity, and I'll keep my order with you open pending your further research. I think what really bothered me is the 5th/6th gear fitment issue (of course if the shifter needed that much retooling to fit, it's possible the extreme noise results from a related issue).

 

There is a possibility that I may have made the "reverse ****" a little longer on a few of them, they are done at the end, and a “bit” broke on us while doing one of the *****.
But if something like that occurs to anyone, (not a proper fit), please call me and send the shifter back, and I will replace it with out a question.

On another note....
If anyone sends me email, PM or any other communication, and I don’t respond to it right away, please be patient for a few days. As my job requires me to travel almost every day, and sometimes I DO NOT have access to the internet, hence no way of checking email, PM’s or the forums.

Remember, I do this as a hobby, not as a business.

Dweeb

 

Thanks fo the info Dweeb.
Just as an FYI, if it helps, my metal insert is loose on the bold that goes through it. If your's fits snug then there is a huge difference right there.
The size difference is minimal but the insert can/does have free play.
Also... in the proces of installing the new bushings, REALLY packed the grease in the bolt/bushing assembly. For about the first 30 or so shifts there was much less noise but the rattle quickly came back.
I know I'm harpin on the bolt thing but do you think a really firm Delrin insert to replace the metal insert is an option??
Thanks,



Steven

 

Judge, and all

The metal bushing should be tight (not loose) within the tanny’s linkages “U” fitting. Make sure there is no “slap” or “free play” there. If there is. it WILL cause a lot of noise. Make sure you tighten the bolt well.
If you look at the attached picture, (a bit exaggerated) the BLUE is the metal insert. You want it tight between the “U” shape GRAY fork that is the shifter linkage. The metal insert is NOT supposed to move / rotate. If that "BLUE" metal insert is loose, you will get a lot of noise coming from it.

Dweeb

 

i sent you a pm dweeb and a regular e-mail. please let me know what you can do!!!!!

thanx,
john