I had my Z serviced today at 12,000 miles with an oil change, oil filter, and air filter replaced. I was given a service maintenance schedule and noticed that the dealer recommends an engine oil flush every 18,000 miles for a mere $139.95. I never heard of this and decided to check out Click and Clack to see what its all about. Found the following exchange with someone with a Camry who was offered this "service" at 12,000 miles. Just another scam to get money from us car buyers. How sad. I had a lot of respect for the dealership service department but it all goes down the drain when they attempt to fleece you with a rip off like that.

"While having my 1996 Toyota Camry (45,000 miles) serviced recently, the service technician handed me a brochure and told me it was time to have my engine flushed (to the tune of $129) by something called the Bilstein R-2000 Engine Flush System. I politely declined, saying I would consider it next time. The brochure says it should be done every 12,000 miles. In my 30 years (and my husband's 30-plus years) of driving, neither of us has ever heard of such a recommendation. Is this the latest attempt by dealers to "extort" more money from we unsuspecting drivers? Is such an engine cleansing REALLY necessary? I would appreciate your comments, please. -- Marilyn

Tom: I suspect this device is known around the dealership as the Bilstein R-2000 Wallet Flush System. And, in fact, my brother has already called Bilstein about leasing one.

Ray: What this thing does is pump a heated solvent through your engine, presumably to wash away any sludge that's built up on the valves, rings or other engine components.

Tom: And it's really quite unnecessary. Particularly for a car with only 45,000 miles on it. Changing the oil serves the same purpose -- de-sludgification, if you will -- and if you change the oil every 5,000 or 7,500 miles, you shouldn't HAVE any significant sludge that needs to be washed out.

Ray: While it's possible that such cleaning may help the engine last longer, the engine on a Toyota Camry should easily last 150,000 miles without flushing. And if you followed the advice in the brochure and flushed the engine every 12,000 miles, you'd spend $1,600 on engine flushes in 150,000 miles. That's almost enough to buy a rebuilt engine!

Tom: This is what's known in the business as a "profit center." Something the garage can use to beef up the amount each person spends per visit. So unless you've got a very old car, and are trying to solve a specific, sludge- or carbon-related-problem, I'd skip the R-2000."

 

I work for a dealership in the service dept. have been for 12yrs as an
advisor-i am very familiar with engine oil flush machines and i use them
on my own cars. i do it about every 30k miles on my dodge dakota
i change the oil every 3000 to 3500 miles each time and when it is flushed
some buildup still comes out
i tell my customers to consider it at 30k miles as well but don't push it
i tell the folks who go over on the oil change too far each time to consider
it to prevent a clog in oil pump or pick up screen because a drop in oil
pressure can cause serious damage in dodge vehicles-especially intrepids
and concordes
i also tell folks that normally change it regularly but who come across
a situation where they go over 3-5k miles more than the usual service
to flush it then because the oil gets very tar like
i do not recommend a flush to peope who have engines that are totally
sludged because it will just break loose a big chunk and clog up pump
and then engine is screwed
then i will recommend to remove oil pan and valve covers and manually
scrape out the goo and wash down with brake cleaner or carb cleaner
as much as possible and then replace pump and screen and hope for the
best(as long as no bearing material was present in pan upon inspection)

 

where's the published data from a controlled study?

 

i think it takes deposits that were tucked away safely for the life of the motor and circulates them through your engine.its like paying the dealer to wipe out you engine.

 

i have no published data to show you, my dealer uses the wynns oil
flush machine, and i have seen the results before and after and have
even seen oil pan off before and after because my previous manager
had a tech do so to see if the machine was crap or not back when we
first got it about 8 yrs ago

 

Garbage scam as is most of the good,better,best oil changes out there.Its there to just increase the bottom line and thats it.I have allways called the cleaners,additives and such as snake oil cause it dosent do squat.
Oh and ive been in the auto repair industry for 32 years.

 

Bob ---Air Gauge questioner -----Tell them they are Liars, Cheats and Thieves---Thats beyond ludicrous

And add to that ---Anti Freeze Flushes and AT Flushes and PS Flushes and Window Washer Flushes


I'm not being a Smart *** ---I'm in the business----I couldn't look at my self in the mirror if I offered those "services"

I'm Poor but Honest

 

been around for a long time.

 

You are going to group in garbage chrysler engines (which are well known to suffer from sludge issues) with one of the best, if not THE best, V6 engines in the world (the VQ)?

You should not need any sludge removal service, because if you change your oil and filter regularly, and use quality oil, you will not have any significant sludge to begin with.

 

just "value-added services" people. everyone's trying to make money. no need to get upset. like anything else, it's up to you to decide whether you think it has value at the price, or not.

 

Interesting to see a decent amount of people in here are also in the trade.

Edited:

 

Iv turned wrenches since I was tall enough to hold one --I built my first motor at 12. I copped 2 engineering degrees through the years and built Harley Strokers and every Detroit Iron from the early 50s Hemis to the Boring 350s Chevs ---YAWN.
Iv seem most scams and reconize the remainder

We really need to educate one another to the scams out there and quit this Fad BS that makes Scammers millions-in all the Fluff Crap

If you need input PM ---I AM in the business--but I get pissed at the Crap-----I get pissed at me, making a honest living and others scammin me and you.

 

UGH ---I can NEVER be serious

 

as i mentioned earlier in my post i do not push this service on people
who service thier cars regularly, i only promote it when they go way over
on a service by a bunch of miles to prevent buildup from occurring
and i was not saying our engine was the same as crap v6 in intrepid just
saying it is important to keep those engines clean because they have
tendency to sludge easier-cat converters are right next to cylinder heads
and have very small oil passages-causes poor circulation and bearings run
dry and get scored start to knock/tap

 

I think a lot of people hate on dealers because they bought a car they can't afford the regular maintenance on. Dealers are in business to make money. They can not compete with online vendors that reach a wider purchasing audience therefore having reduced prices on items. West Co and Performance Nissan are exceptions to the rule because they have online businesses that service the whole board. They have purchasing power with vendors that get them better pricing.

A Nissan dealership in BFE does not have that luxury therefore charges standard rates for service and mark ups on parts. I think you would all be surprised if you handled your local dealer with a different attitude. You walk in assuming they are going to screw you over. Yes some do, but most don't. Get to know one of the service reps and use that person every time. You would be surprised how much of a discount a 12 pack of Corona for the service rep will get you. Mine floats goodwill warranty work all the time and i am out of warranty by 10,000 miles and 2 years.

I'm not a dealer nor do I work for one. Just food for thought. I did the Induction flush you speak of and I noticed a huge difference in smoothness of idle and revving.

End rant

 

Im not Bashing Dealers as a whole --I just bash the Manipulative scare tactics some businesses come up with. Joe B Average is at the local beer bar spouting how he just had his tires flushed with Imported Air from the Swiss Alps air and all the John and George and Jack B Averages rush down the next day to have they're tires flushed. Fine.

But we, that are more into cars need to know and be above the scams that are offered by those that need that compensation either because of Greed or Failure to make a Buck honestly

 

Also keep in mind--Psychology is a powerful tool in the advertising business

 

I understand what you are saying, but is not a scam, it is more of an optional/recommended service. It does make difference on how the engine runs, and it is something most DIY'ers can not do themselves. I just like to do whatever makes my car run better so I am for it.

I know what you mean with the whole nitrogen instead of air in your tires because it last longer blah, blah, blah. I'm not sure how I feel about cramming a flammable substance in my tires.

 

Maybe we can get a group buy on this

 

Amen to that. The problem is most people don't use their brain and the general public is viewed as consumers by big business. Hence the need for a $50,000 -$100,000 off road vehicle that will never see a day off road in it's life but instead will haul around 1 child in a car seat.