Ziggyrama

iTrader: (15)

I think you're getting it now. So....what is quality? A good spark plug serves 2 roles in an engine:

1. Consistently ignites the air/fuel mixture
2. Evacuates heat from the chamber

to do #1 well, the spark plug needs to produce consistent spark most of the time. To do that, it needs to heat up hot enough to burn off deposits to clean itself (heat range needs to be matched well with the engine) and it has to have good electrical conductivity to create the spark with minimal energy requirement. All spark plugs experience some misfiring where the fuel won't get ignited sometimes or the spark won't exist long enough to produce a good flame front. Good spark plugs just do it less often than crappy ones.

So, considering what I just said, pulstars claim low misfiring frequency. OK. How much lower? 5% less? 50% less? Compared to what? Old, crusty platinums with 100K miles on them? If I were a betting man, I'd say that a new, fresh set of NGK coppers and these pulstars would be close in that regard. Copper is the best plug for performance. Lowest electrical resistance and if made my a good manufacturer like NGK and with properly matched heat range, you'd be hard pressed to top it.

What makes me wonder about the flame front footage posted on the pulstar website is the fact that they claim a faster flame front propagation. The speed of the burn is dictated by the fuel you use. So, hwo can they speed the process up? The only way I can think of is to ignite more fuel initially to create a larger initial flame front. So, is the plustar spark actually larger? I have a hard time believing that. This is where I think the marketing is taking over just a bit too much.

Now, let's talk about #2. How well do pulstars work in that regard? Will they start fouling after 10K miles because they are not heating up enough? How well do they evacuate heat from the engine? Haven't seen much talk about that. I want to see what they look like after 50K miles.

Shadrackc

CSF, I agree. And johnnylaw, as you notice, it isn't what you say it is how you say it that got my back up. For sure, you are trying to get more info, and I don't think that Butt Dyno is accurate at all, I'm just putting up info I find in other places. In a perfect situation, there would be the proper tests as I am sure there will be. 150 dollars isn't really a lot when you consider what people are spending on intakes that actually remove horsepower. If they gave a realistic 5-10 HP, that would make it 15-30 dollars per HP. Now I said IF. A turbo charger installed is what.......7000 dollars? For 100 HP. Using simple math, that is around 70 dollars per HP.
I hope someone takes a range of non-FI 4/6/8 cylinder engines and does before and after tests with a few different plugs to really see what the deal is. If they do what they say, I will buy a set, if not then they will go on the turbonator crap heap with the rest of the gimmicks out there.
Now my high speed lug nuts and muffler bearings.....those are another story.

Jay'Z

iTrader: (118)

Ibtl.........

raykwok

iTrader: (6)

haha i read the article in a magazine too, and i was always wondering how spark plugs were giving our car 5 whp... guess i was wrong :P good job

-ray

Ziggyrama

iTrader: (15)

Lol....I never got that. Good way to bump that post count....like I am doing right now

I think you can only claim that on page 1 of a thread. After that it just looses it's extraordinary status. Sorry to burst your bubble

go-fast

even if initial dyno tests showed small gains you have to consider the ecm's reaction to this hotter plug(thats all you are buying),it is going to adjust a/f ratio and retard timing accordingly until it sees the desired parameters return.as others have said the final result of these plugs may acually cause loss of power,or no change.btwy 5 plugs are supposed to cover 75% of vehicles?that alone should scare the crap out of you and raise a bs flag.instead of gearing up to supply plugs that are ranged for your specific vehicle only 5 numbers is flawed even without my engineering degree.that kind of product marketing only serves one purpose and that is cost of production.so 150 dollar plugs are saving cash on production costs and telling you everything else is inferior?c'mon,i can't believe this is even being debated.spend 3 dollars a piece on coppers and have a true performance plug that is properly ranged for your car.

Shadrackc

Here is my issue with your thoughts go-fast, even though they may be true. If this were the case, why were patents issued, and why hasn't any of the major magazines, poplular science, or tons of people on the internet found that these are not worth it? There are tons of people that speculate what they do, or why they aren't worth it, but to date THERE IS NO PROOF. I want to read proof from legitimate sources, not opinions. I haven't bought them, but am interested in all the reports from different web sites, forums of other vehicles, where people are finding that they are doing something.

go-fast

the burden of proof lies with pulstar,and to date they have shown me little more than slick marketing.butt dynos and skewed tests only confuse the issue if you decide to give them unjustified llegitimacy.pulstar started selling these plugs as a performance product until they realized educated consumers new they were full of crap,now they are trying to market fuel economy to a much more suseptable segment and apparently doing better.next month it will be a million mile plug and they will rope a whole new group of suckers.they are counting on inquisitive minds like you to insure their survival,do the math if 1% of car owners "give it a try" they have a viable buisiness regardless of verified claims.did you buy a flobee after seeing the satisfied customers on tv?same thing here.

Ziggyrama

iTrader: (15)

Hmm....generally, with me, I would not bank on the masses to do the right thing as a group and go with what majority perceives to be beneficial. Most people don't know enough about technology to sufficiently scrutinize the product and placebo effect can really change the perception. I guess I always took the stand that I have a brain of my own and I'll make my own decisions. I can look and see what others have done as another data point but in the end, saying that something must be good because most haven't rejected it doesn't hold up with me personally. Just because lots of people think drinking milk is good for you, you won't see me touch it

Patents are a funny thing. They are usually very focused and just because you got a patent on something, it doesn't mean it's a good idea . You could try and get a patent on a square wheel and you may get it. Does that mean square wheels are useful? Maybe if you like to make life difficult for yourself There's millions of patents out there that really make no sense but someone thought it was a good idea and reserved their right to own it. Also, is it: "patent pending" or is the patent actually approved? BIG difference. The reason why I say this is because plenty of people apply but only a fraction of those are actually granted.

I think we're all entitled to our opinions, right? I say it's OK to disagree and we all should take the time to make up our own minds. In the end, if you want to shell out $150 for these, go right ahead. You earned that money, you can blow it anyway you want. BUT.....if you come here and claim you gained 50whp from it, I reserve my right to laugh at you

dcmaxclub

iTrader: (12)

A patent protects your property from being copied / sold by someone else. It also shows that you are the originator of it (if the idea/product is public knowledge or has been previously done you shouldn't be able to patent it). It does not mean that the product works as marketed.

We have patents on compounds as treatment for some medical conditions and still have not proven that they work. They have not even made clinical trials yet. The only thing the patent shows is that it is our original product and someone was willing to invest the hundreds of thousands of dollars necessary to obtain the patent and protect the product.

Never assume that a product works just because it has a patent.

Shadrackc

I'm not assuming, but I work in an industry where there are many hoaxes but once in a while things work as claimed. There is also more chance of something being legitimate if it is patented (because it costs time and money) and marketed (because it costs time and money). That doesn't make it a valid product, but does increase the chance of it being so. Usually, when somthing is total crap, it doesn't take that long for it to be exposed. These plugs seem to have been around for longer than most products before being exposed.
Nope, didn't buy a flowbee, didn't buy these either, as I said, I came on here to see if I could find unbiased opinions and really, there is a lot more bias than not. Obviously some of you guys have been burnt before hence the negative twist on most of your messages. Did someone buy a turbonator that isn't admitting it?
As in any hypothesis, I was taught that you form NO opinion before there is a burden of proof. I have no opinion on these at all, the concept sounds scientifically sound, but I agree that real science lab tests need to be conducted before any opinions can be formed.
Also, in the last Pulstar ads in the new issue of Road and Track, their add reproduces the dyno test by the other magazine and is back to the claims of additional horsepower, not fuel economy.
Along those lines, some people have made comments that they notice they are not getting as much residue on their pipes due to a cleaner burn. Is this a valid statement? Again, asking because I don't know so no jumping on me like it is me making the claim.

gothchick

iTrader: (12)

Lol @ this thread

go-fast

i give up....here's another new product you can research.

Shadrackc

Hey go-fast, what is your problem?
Anything I'm saying that seems to personally offend you? Are you 12 or something? Comparing something stupid like that to something that may have merits is ridiculous. This is why people complain about coming on these forums. Are these forums for pessimists only? Are you the almighty dictator that determines what people can ask questions about? Notice how some others who were once on this thread have left? Maybe you have something to do with that.
I truly hope that these plugs end up getting good press, end up really doing something, and seeing you all eat crow as you crawl to the store to buy a set. Then again, maybe you are so stubborn that you would still refuse to admit it, sighting some other reason why a nasa scientist didn't test properly.
I have a product you could research too, but thought I might have some class and not post it.
Pathetic.

go-fast

i was trying to save you from yourself,but i see i am wasting my time.btwy if you don't think that burger cooker is hysterical your skin is way to thin for this site.

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

...and they're a match for the motor w/o additional tuning. If these lean out the AFR out of the box at lower rpm to midrange, wtf? Most people who buy this kind of crap are going to just put them into the car and add it to their forum sig line.

Spark plug BS just never stops.. I run NGK's in 3 different Nissan motors, have tried other plugs, and I always have come back to the NGK's for performance, value, and reliability. Last word being key - wtf are you supposed to do if one of these plugs dies? Run to the corner store for a replacement? Not likely.

No sane person would run anything else for competition, other than similar plugs from other manufacturers. I've even stopped running the platinums in my SE-R's SR20, because I'd rather just run the NGK copper core and change them more frequently, I'll spot any issues sooner - for about $4 a plug.

The $$$ for 80% of us would be better put toward an AP, UTEC, etc. and some quality tuning time, instead of dicking around looking for a few hp out of spark plugs with tons of dyno time, which for most of us, isn't free, either.

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

Who can argue with the manufacturer's ad? If they pay to have it printed in a magazine, it must be true, no bias there.

As for a hypothesis = NO opinion? I guess education has really tanked everywhere. Try again - not only is a hypothesis an opinion, it also allows for an assumption, an unproven opinion:
Like every other overblown spark plug claims I've seen, my hypothesis is these also suck, as does whatever education system produces morons who don't even know the meaning of the word.

+1 for the Coleman-Nightrider poster, lmao!

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

N...G...K.

Nissan and NGK have done at least a little testing

genegoesfast

iTrader: (16)

Did anyone else see the 11ft/lb gain in the bottom end of the torque curve....that to me seems to be the most remarkable gain on that dyno graph. That gain seems to be too big to just be "the car cooled down" I'm certainly not arguing whether or not the plugs or the tune did it, but 10-12ft/lb is a noticable gain.

Shadrackc

Anyone can google a word and copy and past the meaning from the online dictionary.
Your opinion is that the spark plugs suck.
Your posting of the word is verbatim the description from Merriam-Webster.
I'm without theory on this one as there is no fact disproving the claims either. There are a lot of things that were impossible years ago that are fact now. Sure there were a few people that swore the world was flat and that the sun revolved around earth.
I'd rather take a "wait and see" attitude before I buy.