Traction Control Off - Terrible Sound and Rear End Hopping
10-22-2008, 10:31 AM
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Traction Control Off - Terrible Sound and Rear End Hopping
I tried searching for this but I have no idea what to call it ...
When I feel doing some back road wheel spinning starts from a stop I shut the TCS off and let it go. The tires spin, but then it's like there is still something keeping the wheels from just spinning. What is this? Is it just tire hop or is there a system keeping you from spinning the tires to your hearts desire? I've got an '07 Enthusiast, so obviously includes an LSD.
I think I've heard someone talk about a system that is there to keep you from doing drifting or straight-line burnouts, but the part I don't understand is that I can slide the car out in a wet parking lot with the TCS off and then there is no wheel hop/electronic leash to stop me. (I like to practice so I can get a feel for what the car will do if a skid comes up in real driving). So why won't the car do a straight line burnout but it will do "drifts" (For lack of a better term) all day long?
Flame if you want, but I'm new to the Z world so I'm just trying to get to know my car a little better.
When I feel doing some back road wheel spinning starts from a stop I shut the TCS off and let it go. The tires spin, but then it's like there is still something keeping the wheels from just spinning. What is this? Is it just tire hop or is there a system keeping you from spinning the tires to your hearts desire? I've got an '07 Enthusiast, so obviously includes an LSD.
I think I've heard someone talk about a system that is there to keep you from doing drifting or straight-line burnouts, but the part I don't understand is that I can slide the car out in a wet parking lot with the TCS off and then there is no wheel hop/electronic leash to stop me. (I like to practice so I can get a feel for what the car will do if a skid comes up in real driving). So why won't the car do a straight line burnout but it will do "drifts" (For lack of a better term) all day long?
Flame if you want, but I'm new to the Z world so I'm just trying to get to know my car a little better.
10-23-2008, 07:00 AM
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well, i think the power is still limited, why dont you pull your rear brake light fuse out and give it a go? this is what i need to do to get the car to do a burn out. something about the car still limits power even with the traction control off.
10-23-2008, 08:02 AM
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Does turning the VDC and/or Traction Control off provide benefits on the MPG department? Why do some dudes turn them off? Down here it rains so often, I wouldn't do it.
The power decline could mean a tune-up's needed. Timing?. Clogged injectors?
The power decline could mean a tune-up's needed. Timing?. Clogged injectors?
10-23-2008, 08:51 AM
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trust me and try it with the rear brake light fuse out and let me know how it goes.
and for why people turn off the traction control, its because our traction control isnt very ummm nice? its very obtrusive and j ust immediately turns the power down at the slightest moment of slip or whatever. thats why alot of people turn them off, but its also caused accidents cause its off, like in rain/cold weather when the tires keep sliding.
and for why people turn off the traction control, its because our traction control isnt very ummm nice? its very obtrusive and j ust immediately turns the power down at the slightest moment of slip or whatever. thats why alot of people turn them off, but its also caused accidents cause its off, like in rain/cold weather when the tires keep sliding.
10-24-2008, 06:03 PM
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10-24-2008, 10:55 PM
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^what the last two said, ignore everyone else. the wheel hop is NOT from traction control, do not pull your brake fuse and forget about your sway bars. completely ignore 2-6.
wheel hop is common. it's a weird inbetween of 'burning out' (spinning) and gaining traction.. the suspension movement causes the wheel to start bouncing or skipping if you will... like if you've ever drug your shoe across a floor and had it skip/grab/skip/grab you will know exactly what the car is feeling.
this is very bad for your car, stop doing it. your VLSD will not help with this issue. your tires could be worn, too high air pressure, you simply are giving it too much gas before it has traction, etc. it just comes down to traction. modify how you feather the clutch/launch the car and you will eliminate the problem. there is nothing else to be done except swapping parts.
I eliminated wheel hop I got from having lowering springs by getting coilovers, changing the tires, alignment and getting solid differential bushings. my car never hops now. it spins, or it grabs. very predictable.
wheel hop is common. it's a weird inbetween of 'burning out' (spinning) and gaining traction.. the suspension movement causes the wheel to start bouncing or skipping if you will... like if you've ever drug your shoe across a floor and had it skip/grab/skip/grab you will know exactly what the car is feeling.
this is very bad for your car, stop doing it. your VLSD will not help with this issue. your tires could be worn, too high air pressure, you simply are giving it too much gas before it has traction, etc. it just comes down to traction. modify how you feather the clutch/launch the car and you will eliminate the problem. there is nothing else to be done except swapping parts.
I eliminated wheel hop I got from having lowering springs by getting coilovers, changing the tires, alignment and getting solid differential bushings. my car never hops now. it spins, or it grabs. very predictable.
10-24-2008, 11:25 PM
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if your rear suspension is too stiff you will shock the tires on launch.the tires will literally bounce off the pavement.if you watch pro stock cars leave at the track you will see the car actually squat and suck down towards the ground when launching.this is what you want.
10-25-2008, 11:12 AM
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^what the last two said, ignore everyone else. the wheel hop is NOT from traction control, do not pull your brake fuse and forget about your sway bars. completely ignore 2-6.
wheel hop is common. it's a weird inbetween of 'burning out' (spinning) and gaining traction.. the suspension movement causes the wheel to start bouncing or skipping if you will... like if you've ever drug your shoe across a floor and had it skip/grab/skip/grab you will know exactly what the car is feeling.
this is very bad for your car, stop doing it. your VLSD will not help with this issue. your tires could be worn, too high air pressure, you simply are giving it too much gas before it has traction, etc. it just comes down to traction. modify how you feather the clutch/launch the car and you will eliminate the problem. there is nothing else to be done except swapping parts.
I eliminated wheel hop I got from having lowering springs by getting coilovers, changing the tires, alignment and getting solid differential bushings. my car never hops now. it spins, or it grabs. very predictable.
wheel hop is common. it's a weird inbetween of 'burning out' (spinning) and gaining traction.. the suspension movement causes the wheel to start bouncing or skipping if you will... like if you've ever drug your shoe across a floor and had it skip/grab/skip/grab you will know exactly what the car is feeling.
this is very bad for your car, stop doing it. your VLSD will not help with this issue. your tires could be worn, too high air pressure, you simply are giving it too much gas before it has traction, etc. it just comes down to traction. modify how you feather the clutch/launch the car and you will eliminate the problem. there is nothing else to be done except swapping parts.
I eliminated wheel hop I got from having lowering springs by getting coilovers, changing the tires, alignment and getting solid differential bushings. my car never hops now. it spins, or it grabs. very predictable.
10-26-2008, 06:16 AM
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^what the last two said, ignore everyone else. the wheel hop is NOT from traction control, do not pull your brake fuse and forget about your sway bars. completely ignore 2-6.
wheel hop is common. it's a weird inbetween of 'burning out' (spinning) and gaining traction.. the suspension movement causes the wheel to start bouncing or skipping if you will... like if you've ever drug your shoe across a floor and had it skip/grab/skip/grab you will know exactly what the car is feeling.
this is very bad for your car, stop doing it. your VLSD will not help with this issue. your tires could be worn, too high air pressure, you simply are giving it too much gas before it has traction, etc. it just comes down to traction. modify how you feather the clutch/launch the car and you will eliminate the problem. there is nothing else to be done except swapping parts.
I eliminated wheel hop I got from having lowering springs by getting coilovers, changing the tires, alignment and getting solid differential bushings. my car never hops now. it spins, or it grabs. very predictable.
wheel hop is common. it's a weird inbetween of 'burning out' (spinning) and gaining traction.. the suspension movement causes the wheel to start bouncing or skipping if you will... like if you've ever drug your shoe across a floor and had it skip/grab/skip/grab you will know exactly what the car is feeling.
this is very bad for your car, stop doing it. your VLSD will not help with this issue. your tires could be worn, too high air pressure, you simply are giving it too much gas before it has traction, etc. it just comes down to traction. modify how you feather the clutch/launch the car and you will eliminate the problem. there is nothing else to be done except swapping parts.
I eliminated wheel hop I got from having lowering springs by getting coilovers, changing the tires, alignment and getting solid differential bushings. my car never hops now. it spins, or it grabs. very predictable.
i would look into a stiffer suspension setup.
10-26-2008, 07:23 AM
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The solid diff mount mentioned above makes a world of difference eliminating wheel hop. SPL sells a solid aluminum mount for $119. You have to drop the diff to install it, but it is a GREAT mod.
10-26-2008, 12:01 PM
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if the car is new,try installing springs from an earlier car.i'm willing to bet they are plentiful.even if the spring ratings are the same,a used spring will not be as crisp.this might sort you out.
10-26-2008, 01:14 PM
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Wheel hop is part of your rear suspension set-up. As your tires spin forward, the rear differential will try and twist the opposite direction, or in othe words, the pinion angle will raise towards the body of the car. Some one earlier mentioned the prostock and that they squat, all cars will try and squat, the squat is what you do not want to happen.
An independent suspension is the worst for trying to tame, it's good for cornering but bad for launching. Your typical dragster will use the twisting action of the differential to apply lift to the front of the car (ladder bars) which in turn puts more pressure on the rear. Our cars do not have this.
A solid diff mount woud help, but make for a rougher ride.
PS, if you really want to spins the tire, get a cheap harder rubber tire, they'll spin easier.
An independent suspension is the worst for trying to tame, it's good for cornering but bad for launching. Your typical dragster will use the twisting action of the differential to apply lift to the front of the car (ladder bars) which in turn puts more pressure on the rear. Our cars do not have this.
A solid diff mount woud help, but make for a rougher ride.
PS, if you really want to spins the tire, get a cheap harder rubber tire, they'll spin easier.
10-26-2008, 01:36 PM
#20
What are you talking about? Firstly, you absolutely want squat in a suspension. The squat is rearward transfer of the weight of the car and results in increased traction. why do you think ultra stiff race cars have such terrible 60ft times? it's a compromise between purposes but EVERY car for any purpose is made to have squat. from the race car that needs it to launch out of a corner to the drag car that needs it for launch.
Secondly, harder rubber can exacerbate the problem as the grip profile leads to loss of traction. You want grip not slip and I don't think the OP was wanting to spin at all.
Thirdly, solid differential bushings in NO WAY lead to a harsher ride. The only negative aspect is increased gear whine transmitted through the chassis. You get more consistent handling better lateral traction and force the suspension to act more positively. the car has soft bushings between the subframe and the frame that absorbs the harshness.
so your whole post was wrong, and leads members to the wrong conclusions. don't do that.
In a related note to a post someone made: a VLSD will not help your car on launch. They simply do not function that way, if anything they make it worse because of the slip difference they allow before affecting any sort of positive influence. A mechanical LSD helps, but I can tell you it cannot and does not cure it. Addressing this issue with anything other than bushings or spring changes are simply a bandaid and do not address the root cause of he behavior.
Another note from my direct experience (something it seems a bunch of you lack and thus the ridiculous assertions in this thread) is that the stock carrier bushing (the liquid filled one) is prone to failure. I would even venture to say a large amount of Z owners have a failing bushing and don't know it. Every modified Z that is increasing grip levels (wider tires, better rubber, stiffr suspensions, aftermarket aggressive LSDs) is abusing this bushing and experiences negative performance they don't realize if they don't address it. As little as two launches at the strip has been shown to destroy the integrity. You can check yours by looking under the car the next time you arer so inclined: if the bushing has torn, you will see black streaks running down the subframe that holds the rear bushing and possibly on your exhaust pipe if you can see yours (spl's pics on their site show how theirs broke as well if you need a visual aid) or if the front-side of the rear bushing tore you can tell because the actual center metal portion of the bushing will not be centered and will be 'sagging'.
So why pay to have the same piece of **** bushing installed again? get a solid bushing. These bushings are integral to isolating suspension loads to be handled where they should be: the suspension.
/end
PS: support SPL as they are the one of the only companies (in the US no less) putting out the suspension parts we crave and that benefit the whole community. Their service is beyond amazing, their products are wonderful and their pricing is very reasonable for the amount of RnD they perform.
Secondly, harder rubber can exacerbate the problem as the grip profile leads to loss of traction. You want grip not slip and I don't think the OP was wanting to spin at all.
Thirdly, solid differential bushings in NO WAY lead to a harsher ride. The only negative aspect is increased gear whine transmitted through the chassis. You get more consistent handling better lateral traction and force the suspension to act more positively. the car has soft bushings between the subframe and the frame that absorbs the harshness.
so your whole post was wrong, and leads members to the wrong conclusions. don't do that.
In a related note to a post someone made: a VLSD will not help your car on launch. They simply do not function that way, if anything they make it worse because of the slip difference they allow before affecting any sort of positive influence. A mechanical LSD helps, but I can tell you it cannot and does not cure it. Addressing this issue with anything other than bushings or spring changes are simply a bandaid and do not address the root cause of he behavior.
Another note from my direct experience (something it seems a bunch of you lack and thus the ridiculous assertions in this thread) is that the stock carrier bushing (the liquid filled one) is prone to failure. I would even venture to say a large amount of Z owners have a failing bushing and don't know it. Every modified Z that is increasing grip levels (wider tires, better rubber, stiffr suspensions, aftermarket aggressive LSDs) is abusing this bushing and experiences negative performance they don't realize if they don't address it. As little as two launches at the strip has been shown to destroy the integrity. You can check yours by looking under the car the next time you arer so inclined: if the bushing has torn, you will see black streaks running down the subframe that holds the rear bushing and possibly on your exhaust pipe if you can see yours (spl's pics on their site show how theirs broke as well if you need a visual aid) or if the front-side of the rear bushing tore you can tell because the actual center metal portion of the bushing will not be centered and will be 'sagging'.
So why pay to have the same piece of **** bushing installed again? get a solid bushing. These bushings are integral to isolating suspension loads to be handled where they should be: the suspension.
/end
PS: support SPL as they are the one of the only companies (in the US no less) putting out the suspension parts we crave and that benefit the whole community. Their service is beyond amazing, their products are wonderful and their pricing is very reasonable for the amount of RnD they perform.
Last edited by Motormouth; 10-26-2008 at 03:26 PM.