Anybody tried this as an alternative/supplement to grounding kit?
Anybody tried this as an alternative/supplement to grounding kit?
Direct Power System by K&G of Japan:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/dps.php
Looks kinda pricey for what it does, but every little bit helps, right? Any thoughts?
http://www.automotiveforums.com/dps.php
Looks kinda pricey for what it does, but every little bit helps, right? Any thoughts?
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I'm not laughing at you MustGoFastR. That ad is one of the most absurd things I've read in a long long time. It's amazing how much they can write up about the product without giving any actual information.
I love it that they even claim it makes the turbocharger spool up faster. What jackasses. Oh, and gues what, millions of dollars were spent developing this revolutionary technology.
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Some quotes I just love.
WTF??
How the hell do you get a unusable current out of a battery and how do you 'inject' it back into your car when the wire just goes to ground?
Wow this thing effects your exhaust gasses, absolutely amazing.
I guess diesel engines don't use batteries.
Amazing how the wires only go from the - and + of the battery to a ground on the engine. Sounds like a weak *** grounding kit to me with the positive wire going into shiny metal box.
This is the abstract from their "patent" For those of you who aren't electronically trained, this means that it does absolutely nothing. Basically it's just a bunch of technical sounding words that when put together sound like it does something important.
Its unique manufacturing method ensures that nothing goes in or out of the box on a molecular level.
Your battery is filled with currents that are unusable because they are either too weak or of a bad origin. The Direct Power System filters the current flow, correcting any unusable currents, and then 'injects' it back into your car.
Faster turbo spooling
However, it is not compatible with diesel engines
A grounding kit is often confused with the DPS simply based on the fact that they both use high current wires. Upon closer examination however, these two are not even remotely similar. A grounding kit is a very low frequency product, which is comprised of several high voltage wires that connect parts of the engine. It discharges bad currents in the engine, and has them removed. The DPS, on the other hand, extracts this kind of current, and filters it. The DPS then injects it back into the system as a usable and more powerful current, built to work with the existing currents to increase power in several different forms, including horsepower and torque
A power conversion apparatus includes a current component control section which outputs q axis and d axis negative-sequence components and q axis and d axis positive-sequence components based on a detected current value or a voltage value, a current component control which compares a current component with the current instruction value from an instruction value generator and outputs to an adder/subtractor the result, a converter converting a control signal output from the adder/subtractor into three-phase components, and an adder adding these three-phase components to respective phases and outputting the result to a power conversion section.
Call me crazy but I think these actually work
Well, i'm trying the product they said is a rip off and copied theirs, the Sun Automotive Hyper Voltage MR system. I read the sun documentation before i bought it and i think it does what they claim. Sun claims the car runs better because the voltage is set at a stable 14V with accessories on or off. The product does seem to keep the volts set at that voltage and the car seems to run better, like it gets a better spark or something. It sort of feels like when you reset your ECU and you get that extra power, well it's like that all the time now with this product. I'm not promoting it, you don't have to buy it, just my opinion on the Sun product.
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Hey guys,
I just wanted to let you all know that I am the guy behind AF and we are currently working on extensive 3rd party tests of the DPS to gauge its effects as accurately as possible.
When I was first approached to distribute this product I was also quite skeptical of its claims, but I was pleasantly surprised when I actually put it on my Z.
Immediate effects were:
-much stabler and smoother idle
-smoother and slightly quicker revving
-smoother engine response that follows a switch in gear.
In fact, I got so excited that I rushed the launch of the DPS here in the United States - which, to be totally honest, I now see as a miscalculation on my part since we currently do not have enough convincing evidence that it lives up to its claims; hence the full money back guarantee including shipping charges both ways.
I am indeed very confident that this product delivers results. If it did not, we'd lose lots of money since every return would cost us over $20 (due to shipping charges) - not exactly a smart business model for a 'scam' product.
I know that hearing this kind of stuff from the salesman himself may not convince many, especially 350Z owners, who are famous for being smart and cautious.
The limited amount of 3rd party experiences that are documented however do point to the fact that the DPS does indeed deliver results.
Here is one from Brian, who goes by the name Texan on various message boards online. He is especially well-known on many Honda ones.
It is noteworthy that, as most tech gurus, Brian was also very skeptical of the DPS before trying it out.
Brian will be running dyno tests on the DPS tomorrow to see what the actual measurable effects are.
He will be focusing more on... well... here is a quote from him:
The reason I am posting all of this now rather than after the dynos is to ensure that you guys know that I will not be trying to hide anything about this product. I am confident that good results will be measured and I will certainly give you guys an update of how it actually goes - no matter whether the results are good or bad.
So, the bottomline - the DPS is brand new and has not been scrutinized enough in the United States yet (although Primedia already gave us a positive on doing a review in some of their mags after they initially tried it out).
I see the full money back guarantee as great insurance for the skeptics however, since you can definately try it out and not lose a penny for your curiosity.
.. didn't intend to ramble on this much, but hopefully this sheds some light into what is currently going on behind the scenes.
I just wanted to let you all know that I am the guy behind AF and we are currently working on extensive 3rd party tests of the DPS to gauge its effects as accurately as possible.
When I was first approached to distribute this product I was also quite skeptical of its claims, but I was pleasantly surprised when I actually put it on my Z.
Immediate effects were:
-much stabler and smoother idle
-smoother and slightly quicker revving
-smoother engine response that follows a switch in gear.
In fact, I got so excited that I rushed the launch of the DPS here in the United States - which, to be totally honest, I now see as a miscalculation on my part since we currently do not have enough convincing evidence that it lives up to its claims; hence the full money back guarantee including shipping charges both ways.
I am indeed very confident that this product delivers results. If it did not, we'd lose lots of money since every return would cost us over $20 (due to shipping charges) - not exactly a smart business model for a 'scam' product.
I know that hearing this kind of stuff from the salesman himself may not convince many, especially 350Z owners, who are famous for being smart and cautious.
The limited amount of 3rd party experiences that are documented however do point to the fact that the DPS does indeed deliver results.
Here is one from Brian, who goes by the name Texan on various message boards online. He is especially well-known on many Honda ones.
Well, it works. Not sure how, not sure if it's just an additional ground and that's where it works out, but it does work. I'll try to dyno it this weekend, and yes I know how to run a legit dyno comparison .
Of note, I DID NOT reset the ECU by disconnecting the positive battery cable during installation. I thought this might be one trick K&G was using (along with placebo effect) to make the car feel quicker, after all I have to fill up with at-best 91 octane here in So Cal and didn't want the ECU using it's most aggressive timing map since it'd been reset. The whole rev range feels just like before, only 3000-3500 RPM seems a bit more stout. VTEC crossover engages abruptly as always, and power delivery feels identical to before by my butt dyno. But the place that it definitely helped, no doubt about it, is from 7400-8000 RPM. In order to shift a Prelude from 1st to 2nd without dropping out of VTEC you have to drive beyond the 7400 RPM redline to 7800-8000 RPM (8k is fuel cutoff). The engine will do it, but it's clear that the ignition/fueling doesn't like it and that area up there is a good bit rougher than anywhere else in the RPM band. I actually used to think I was experiencing the onset of valve float near 8k, but now I know that it was just the ignition running out of breath. Because from idle to fuel cutoff, the engine is now exceedingly smooth. 7000-8000 RPM is smoother and more quick to rev out than ever before, even when I'd run 98 octane.
Anyhow, I'll drive it around for the next two days with and without the box to see if the newfound revability follows whether or not the box is in. Cheers.
Source: http://www.automotivetech.org/forum/...5&pagenumber=3 scroll to the bottom of the page
Of note, I DID NOT reset the ECU by disconnecting the positive battery cable during installation. I thought this might be one trick K&G was using (along with placebo effect) to make the car feel quicker, after all I have to fill up with at-best 91 octane here in So Cal and didn't want the ECU using it's most aggressive timing map since it'd been reset. The whole rev range feels just like before, only 3000-3500 RPM seems a bit more stout. VTEC crossover engages abruptly as always, and power delivery feels identical to before by my butt dyno. But the place that it definitely helped, no doubt about it, is from 7400-8000 RPM. In order to shift a Prelude from 1st to 2nd without dropping out of VTEC you have to drive beyond the 7400 RPM redline to 7800-8000 RPM (8k is fuel cutoff). The engine will do it, but it's clear that the ignition/fueling doesn't like it and that area up there is a good bit rougher than anywhere else in the RPM band. I actually used to think I was experiencing the onset of valve float near 8k, but now I know that it was just the ignition running out of breath. Because from idle to fuel cutoff, the engine is now exceedingly smooth. 7000-8000 RPM is smoother and more quick to rev out than ever before, even when I'd run 98 octane.
Anyhow, I'll drive it around for the next two days with and without the box to see if the newfound revability follows whether or not the box is in. Cheers.
Source: http://www.automotivetech.org/forum/...5&pagenumber=3 scroll to the bottom of the page
Brian will be running dyno tests on the DPS tomorrow to see what the actual measurable effects are.
He will be focusing more on... well... here is a quote from him:
I'll be focusing more on time to RPM points than raw output numbers, since the motor's feel suggests one of increased responsiveness and high RPM willingness to rev out. This will show up more readily in how quickly it builds RPM than in the power numbers, which absolutely will wander around a few horse in peak numbers from one run to the next. Truth is, the place I'm going to always stresses the time to RPM plots anyway. It's the true measure of how quick the car is going to be.
So, the bottomline - the DPS is brand new and has not been scrutinized enough in the United States yet (although Primedia already gave us a positive on doing a review in some of their mags after they initially tried it out).
I see the full money back guarantee as great insurance for the skeptics however, since you can definately try it out and not lose a penny for your curiosity.
.. didn't intend to ramble on this much, but hopefully this sheds some light into what is currently going on behind the scenes.
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I know that hearing this kind of stuff from the salesman himself may not convince many, especially 350Z owners, who are famous for being smart and cautious.
I don't know what you "claim" your product does, but if you're going to go into the whole. "It takes voltage variations out of the battery" then that can be done with a $.50 capacitor.
You need to rewrite your ad on automotiveforums because pretty much everything you say it does on that ad is complete bullsh*t.
It's good that you offer a moneyback guarantee, but the thing is that most people will notice a difference. Simply because their brain doesn't want to comprehend the fact that they just paid $250 for a shiny silver box that does nothing more than a grounding kit would do.
Here is how I see the DPS business model.
$1 in parts to manufacture
Charge $250 to sell to 100 people
Figure a 30% return from dissatisfied buyers.
That's $100 in mfg costs, plus $600 in return shipping costs.
$700 total costs.
The other 70 people keep it giving you a gross proceeds of $17500
Total profit from only selling it to 100 people with a 30% return rate:
$16900 in your pocket. Not bad for a scam product. This is assuming you only sell 100 of them. Now I'm sure with the thousands of guillable ricers out there you'll sell a lot more making it even more profitable.
Sorry to ruin you here, but I don't want to see people get taken by a scam.
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Now with all that said. Explain to my little brain how this thing works and maybe I'll change my tune. Until then, DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THIS SCAM PRODUCT.
The same thing can be bought here plus you get two of them.
The same thing can be bought here plus you get two of them.
Last edited by jesseenglish; Nov 15, 2003 at 08:44 AM.
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From: Lexington, KY
First off, not kissing ***, just stating facts as they are.
Second, that's your opinion that you have built from your expertise and I respect that.
You say "It's good that you offer a moneyback guarantee, but the thing is that most people will notice a difference. Simply because their brain doesn't want to comprehend the fact that they just paid $250 for a shiny silver box that does nothing more than a grounding kit would do."
However, certainly you are not one of these gullible people and you will not be fooled. Why not try it out personally without a financial risk to you before so confidently stating that this is a scam?
Second, that's your opinion that you have built from your expertise and I respect that.
You say "It's good that you offer a moneyback guarantee, but the thing is that most people will notice a difference. Simply because their brain doesn't want to comprehend the fact that they just paid $250 for a shiny silver box that does nothing more than a grounding kit would do."
However, certainly you are not one of these gullible people and you will not be fooled. Why not try it out personally without a financial risk to you before so confidently stating that this is a scam?
Last edited by igor@af; Nov 15, 2003 at 08:49 AM.
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Send me one, and I will try it out for the My350z.com forum members. I will include Zand02Max in on this trial if he'll do it to prove that I am testing the product with an open mind. I will pay actual shipping costs. If you do what it says it does I will confidently post it here, publicly apologize and retract my last statements. Believe it or not, I do have an open mind.
Last edited by jesseenglish; Nov 15, 2003 at 09:01 AM.
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Good of you to man up, hopefully we can take care of this quickly so I can give the forum, my results.
I will be doing all testing with my supercharger disconnected so as to not skew any results. I have also PM'd Zand02Max, and hopefully he'll consent to have it tested on his car which is bone stock. So we'll have two separate independent tests for you.
I will be doing all testing with my supercharger disconnected so as to not skew any results. I have also PM'd Zand02Max, and hopefully he'll consent to have it tested on his car which is bone stock. So we'll have two separate independent tests for you.
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This product is a complete waste of money. Anyone who claims otherwise better have more than 8 years of college education and explain its benefits in terms of basic science . . . you know that crazy logical **** they teach in school.
Dr. Garrett
Dr. Garrett
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Well, I tend to agree with you MSGarret1, but since I have offered to keep an open mind, that is what I will do.
My plan is to not only use it on a stock, supercharged and slightly modded car with a grounding kit, but I will also subject it to more subjective tests on my bench using a Spec An, signal generator and Oscope. I don't have 8 years of college education, but I can work my way around a circuit like this thanks to a years worth of EE training compliments of the US Army.
BTW, igor@af has contacted me already and assured me that the DPS will be shipped out Monday.
My plan is to not only use it on a stock, supercharged and slightly modded car with a grounding kit, but I will also subject it to more subjective tests on my bench using a Spec An, signal generator and Oscope. I don't have 8 years of college education, but I can work my way around a circuit like this thanks to a years worth of EE training compliments of the US Army.
BTW, igor@af has contacted me already and assured me that the DPS will be shipped out Monday.
Okay, I'm in. My car is bone stock except for the K&N drop-in air filter and the Optima Yellow Top battery. I also am running 1800 watts for my stereo sytem. FYI.
So count me in Jesse, I just need help with the install, ect. I'll be more than happy to fork over the $, if it indeed does what is says.
So count me in Jesse, I just need help with the install, ect. I'll be more than happy to fork over the $, if it indeed does what is says.