doyle4281

Hello all, I wanted to get some information from those of you that are running big power numbers (750-1000 whp) on E85. Being that E85 fuel systems require a great deal more fuel, what pumps are up to the task?

Being newer to the 350Z platform, I would appreciate the information you could share. With the siphon setup to draw fuel from the other side of the tank, it makes things a little more complex.

In-tank options seem to be an off the shelf option, is anyone using external pumps or a surge tank setup?

Thanks again

abushong504

iTrader: (87)

I had a KB boost-a-pump on my CJM dual 255 hanger. Made 822rwhp, limited only by clutch.

CJM modified his hanger with the new Walbro 485 e85 pump and one 255. Testing is currently being done. Should handle 1000rwhp easily.

Once testing is complete, I will modify mine.

I also have ID2000 injectors. There are many options which I am sure people will chime in on.

doyle4281

Thanks man. So you made 822 whp on the boosted dual 255 Walbros? What voltage?

I am eager to see the results from that 485/255 setup, and how the siphon system works with it.

My only issue right now is that my injectors are undersized for the power I want to run. Even though my engine is a 2.6 liter, my ID1000's will need to be run at very high pressures to yield the 750 whp I would like to reach. I know this is being done with dual Bosch 044's as this is the same setup as the Full-Race R14, but I also see that Walbro 255's really die off at high pressures. I know the answer is "get bigger injectors", but right now I cant.

Thanks again, I will look out for that new setup from CJM

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

I run in that power range as well with a boost a pump the CJM twin pump. I am using a denso to replace one of the walbros. You can drop a walbro 485 in no problem as well. I just had the denso around.

But I also run 40psi base fuel pressure on my ID2000s. You will need to run almost 60psi base fuel pressure and at 90psi static (as you probably need well over 30psi to make 750 on a 2.6L), those pumps will probably not cut it on E85. Maybe twin walbro 485's.

doyle4281

Yeah the base pressure will need to be pretty high to achieve 750 whp. Geoff at Full-Race runs dual 044's at 70 psi base pressure, and yields 750 whp @21 psi. I wish there was a way to run these pumps either in tank or external, as they great at high pressures and extremely reliable.

doyle4281

Is anyone successfully running external fuel pumps? Aeromotive, Weldon, 044's, esc?

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

then run them external with a surge tank.

very simple to do. just use the stock pump to feed the tank.

doyle4281

My original intentions were to run the surge tank below, as it would allow me to run the 044's, and it would likely be pretty quiet. However, I was warned that the siphon system may not work correctly with a surge tank. My other concern was fuel leaks, as there is a fair amount of plumbing involved.

If I were to run this, I would consider installing it under the car where the original fuel lines were. I have't done a lot of measuring yet, but I feel that there might be enough ground clearance to install safely.

http://www.intengineering.com/integr...ith-pumps.html

doyle4281

Is anyone running external pumps without a surge tank, while maintaining the siphon operation?

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

thats not too bad of a price. my 1/2 gallon stainless tank, fittings, and 220gph external pump were about that much. I just have to get around to welding it up. No rush though since my twin setup works just fine for now.

Personally, i wouldnt bother with 2 044's. That means you will still have 3 pumps to fail and heat up the fuel. 1 big single like the weldon 2345 will run the pressure you need with ample amount of flow.

doyle4281

Yeah, it is a pretty cool setup. You can also purchase just the front piece so you can make your own tank to your dimensions.

I understand what you are saying about the multi-pump setup, as there is more to fail. However, the big single pumps are quite loud, and the car is not a track dedicated vehicle. It is certainly something to consider, however I have not seen anyone running a large single external fuel pump with the stock tank. Again, I am new to the 350Z, so I have not seen many fuel setups. If you have any information on how to plumb external pumps without a surge tank properly, I would be interested? Thanks again

http://www.intengineering.com/fueling.html?cat=172

binder

iTrader: (8)

I was limited with clutch at 652. CJM twin pump walbro 255's. e85 fuel and I wasn't close to running the pumps out. I'm running hks 1000cc injectors with 60psi base fuel pressure.

I'm planning on pushing up to 800hp now that i have a triple carbon clutch but I just haven't had time to get back on the dyno.

There are a number of surge tank external pump setups. Check the FI forums. I wouldn't use 044's either like stated above. The inlines only flow 300LPH which isn't much more than walbro 255. If you are using an external and taking the time to design it use something larger. There is a guy with the v8 350z and runs a full inline pump setup with a custom setup. It doesn't not have a pump in tank like most inline setups. He has a large build thread on here.

doyle4281

Let me know how far those 1000's and dual 255's take you, as our goals are similar. Obviously, we are pushing the limits of our 1000cc injectors, which will require us to bump the pressure to near the limit to reach 800 whp. Based on simple injector calculators, and using a recommended .75 BSFC for E85, to reach around 800 whp, at least a 1300cc injector would be needed. In the the case of my ID1000's, this would require you reach the limit of the injectors pressure range. I am curious if the Walbros can reliably run these types of pressures? Base pressure would need to be set at about 70 psi

binder

iTrader: (8)

The walbros inside the twin pumps don't have that 90psi pressure relief or whatever it is because I've seen over 100psi on my fuel pressure regulator.

I'm at 73% duty cycle right now with 60psi base pressure. The calculated fuel flow for the dual 255's would be right at 1300cc injectors which is why I'll never waste money on ID 2000's. 700cc of injector paid for that won't be used. I think I'll be able to hit mid 700's on these injectors based on the duty cycle. If I run out of injector before my goals (doubtful) then I'll probably put 1200cc precision injectors in and run them with a slightly higher base fuel as well to max out my twin pump.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

pretty much, thats why i have a 220gph external pump going on

binder

iTrader: (8)

exactly! i'm not against id2000's by any means but I laugh when people do'nt have near enough fuel pump to support those injectors so it's a ton of wasted injector therefore wasted money. I kind of like my money so buying more injector than I need doesn't work for me.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

This was a helpful thread. My plan is to run higher base fuel pressure with 1000cc injectors and a dual 485/255 to obviate the need for larger injectors. Any issues with this? Thinking 70 psi base pressure. Still don't see how I could hit anywhere near 1000 flywheel hp:

binder

iTrader: (8)

My base fuel is at 70psi Raj. I idle at 62psi with my FPR hooked up.

Helped me make the most of my 1000cc hks with e85.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

By my calculations to get dual 485/255 pumps to reach 800 whp, you need about 500 liters/hour of fuel, for 750 whp, about 450 l/h. Using the following real world test data that might mean you could hit 750 with a base pressure of 60 psi (at 25 psi of boost):



I am having my HKS injectors flow tested to see what they actually flow. I should ask that they test at 60 psi... Unfortunately I don't think the ID 1300 cc injectors will be available in time for me, but I think they may be needed to not be injector limited.

I told Hal to get rid of the BAP. Maybe I should have it still power the 485 pump (it is a single pump unit, limited to 20 amps).

Total D

iTrader: (5)

I think I'll still have to go with the ID2000 injectors for my goals. I have thought of running my CJM dual 255 to a surge tank with 3 485's or run just weldon 2345a and boost a pump. My car will still be a street car, so really trying to figure out what will be best. I know of some of the GTR's are running the 3 485's setup. Just want to see what my setup will do with E85 or E114, no goals in mind with E. Just want to see what my setup will be capable of. What do you guys think? Keep it simple or run the surge?