Toneloc

Wouldn't a built overbored na be cheaper to build/tune/ more reliable then a blown/turboed built low compression engine?

This is a pipe dream at this current moment looking for 350 to 400hp out of overbored na would be plenty. (no ls1 swap) sleeper look

500 to 600 would be great with forced induction but with more heat and more components comes less reliability and more of a gamble with induction.

Opinions?

terrasmak

iTrader: (8)

The Cosworth motor Fontana Nissan built built for there Z is a stroker and pushes 450+ costing well over $60k . Even at a lower power level of 400hp it going to be expensive. Also, a stroker crank is not cheap.

MI 35th

iTrader: (16)

Raced a 4.1BC stroker at the track His motor and setup cost roughly 2.5x what my setup did, the results were embarrassing. I gave him 8 cars in a 1/4 mile and still pulled him. Also with my suspension setup I am still faster in the turns.

3.5L stock bore (eagle rods, cp pistons) made 400 ft/lb of trq at 2500 rpm and 600 ft/lb at 3200 it stayed flat until 8200 rpm redline. Also managed just over 700hp with that setup, with less than 30K into it. Now I am tearing down and going for more but that is a different story, still staying 3.5l, its all about the revs.

Toneloc

well that ended that pipe dream lol... so ill drive my na engine until it dies and rebuild it low compression and buy a supercharger kit (cheaper easier to buy.)

I don't see why a stroker cost so much (other then a lot of one off parts). I don't understand why it wouldn't be cheaper if someone made a kit? 4liter jeep strokers are easy to come by lol (I know not relatable but same concept)

Aslong as the 350z has been out someone should have been stroking boring it out and making a kit to sell it like hot cakes... instead of boost it only

mcarther101

iTrader: (8)

Just because no one has done it right yet doesn't mean it's not possible. A proper NA build is going to cost you twice what a proper FI build will for similar performance levels though. Obviously NA performance will taper off around 400-450whp whereas FI performance isn't as restricted.

Tuning NA will be more difficult than FI also.... as in, you're going to spend money buying the wrong parts, tuning them, buying new parts, tuning them, etc... NA requires a lot more mechanical fine tuning than just slapping on some high quality parts, and turning up the boost (not to downplay FI tuning).

NA ~400whp+:
Stroker kit $5-6k
ITB's $3k
ECU $1k
Head work $1500
Cams & springs $1500
Want oversized valves, and bullet-proof valvetrain for 9k RPMs? $1,500 more for that at least
Dry sump oil supply $5-6k
Custom one-off long tube headers made for specific engine $2-5000?
Assembly labor $3-4k?
Tuning cost, who knows...?

FI ~400whp+:
Built short block $3k
Vortech supercharger used $3k
Labor $2-3k?
Uprev osiris tune $1k

Was that a G35? And also, what's your thoughts on say an NA car's potential around a track with stroker kit, ITBs, aggressive cams, and 4.36FD gearing? I just imagine at some point between lower horsepower (400-500whp) cars, there is an equal point between a high revving, aggressively geared NA track car, and a low revving FI track car with much less aggressive gearing. 3.5FD vs 4.36FD is 23% difference in torque, that has to factor in tremendously I would imagine, and even worse if an FI car used 3.3FD. At some point it just comes down to tires and suspension I imagine.

MI 35th

iTrader: (16)

It was against a Blue 350Z coupe.

I was JWT TT on stock block w/a 3.9FD and my current suspension and a square setup tire. I am 3.5 again but yes, on tight tracks the gearing is sorely missed. I see 8000+ and soon 9000 in my fi setup. I will have more leeway for the track. But yes at my current setup its about how I can effectively transfer my trq and power to the wheels and rely more on my braking action (Carbotech XP10 on a slotted rotor brembo setup) and well balanced tire setup. 295x18x35 245x18x40. I may lose 10ths in the entry but there is more usable trq band with the help of anti-lag from my Haltech. I am able to be back on the power sooner and more aggressively as well with the boost by gear and traction profiles that can be tailored to each track. Faster tracks is what it is catered towards though it really comes down to cooling and keeping the parts from breaking. Suspension wise, I set my car up to favor off throttle push more so I can modulate more oversteer with my pedal and keep the turbo spooled longer without killing the turbo with anti-lag. The suspension was designed and built by 350Evo & Wright Motorsports, it is actually the spare setup from one of their grand-am cup cars in 07 or 08 season. If I tracked the car more I would switch back to a 3.9 or even 4.1 and run a more square tire setup again, but for now this is a great setup that is both fun and quick. I run with a lot of Porsche guys and it surprises quite a few people how fast I am on the straights and quick to accelerate out of mid to high speed corners. 2-3 gear corners are much better suited for my setup than a slow 1st gear turn in.

To be quite honest there are a decent amount of 1st gear corners I go through in 2nd because I can fudge it with all the trq and not lose much pace.

mcarther101

iTrader: (8)

Wow, 3.9FD on an FI setup, I am not up to date on what people are doing now-a-days entirely. Last I heard people were installing 3.3FD in FI cars for traction...

I suppose if you're able to track the car with a good suspension setup and quality tires FI, and with more aggressive gearing, an NA setup really wouldn't have much of a chance even if they went with a 4.36FD setup. It sounds like your car, given the suspension setup is likely above and beyond most track cars even though so... I'm inclined to think a well designed NA build could still be competent at least. Maybe not 1st place time attack material, depends on the driver always I guess, but I am a fan of the road less traveled.

taywan

iTrader: (53)

Hey MI35....I'm assuming you have bearings, studs, diff oil pump, etc on the lower block?? And stock heads??

Edit: have a build thread? And what comp ratio you running??

Toneloc

I think somebody with a budget instead of building a block for fi...it would be cheaper to just keep putting used engines in (probably 2 or 3 used would equate to building one block right?) with a 350hp supercharger setup (mild hp for longetivity)

MI 35th

iTrader: (16)

I had a build thread, The problem is I don't keep it up to date and my setup is changing for the 3rd time in 4 years.

Previously I had a Stage 1 Dynosty Motor.

ACL Bearing, L19 Studs, ARP Mains, Dynosty HGs, Stock Rev-up Heads, Eagle Rods, CP Pistons @ 9:1, Billet Girdle, New Oil Pump, Larger Oil Cooler, Koyo R Radiator, Nismo TSTAT, bunch of other little things...

New Setup is similar, still a 3.5 .020 over Carillo Rods, Kelford 272 Cams, Ferrea Valvetrain and valves and some other little things.

Longer gears for traction absolutely right Mcarther, I went from 400 whp/400 trq and instant spool with the 3.9 FD setup to a higher hp/lag single BP turbo setup.

taywan

iTrader: (53)

Thanks. I'm so back and forth on building this spare motor or not. Just curious on everyones builds and how long its lasting them.
Tone-350-400 is just not fun anymore. Well its fun, don't get me wrong, but just been boring.

Toneloc

Until you cant get any traction in all 6 gears then you also will get bored lol

taywan

iTrader: (53)

True.....true....

MI 35th

iTrader: (16)

500-600 is great for a Z, above that and Honestly its just scary as hell, On street tires I can peg the throttle and do a rolling burnout at 60mph. I actually miss the car more at 440 whp w/ 3.9fd because I could really thrash it. Now the car will honestly kill me if I am not respectful and mindful of my right foot. I will say though there is no greater feeling than pulling a brand new 458 or LP 670 on the highway spitting fireballs at them as you shift past.

QTB

iTrader: (9)

I 100% agree with this! I'm sitting around 450 rwhp and it's a blast. I can still drive the car pretty hard at lower speeds (assuming the tires are in good shape) but I can get nice controlled power oversteer @ 100 MPH at the track as long as I respect it. Though I've spent a lot of time dialing in my alignment.

That being said when the tires are heat cycled out I've nearly lost it pulling out of tight corner on to straight sections and get wheel spin to ~85 mph (2-3 shift) on R888's

taywan

iTrader: (53)

I want 500 so bad...I may just build the spare eventually in the near future.

MI 35th

iTrader: (16)

Here is the thing I will say after several kits and builds. Don't look for a number, Number envy is a bad game. Go for a goal in quantifiable results. Break a specific 1/4 mile, hit a certain track time, increase MPH on standing mile. You'll enjoy the results more. All that being said call Sasha up @ BP tell them I told ya about it and run 500 all day long on a twin scroll and basic build.

taywan

iTrader: (53)

OK. Thanks. Will due when time is approaching. Mine is still pretty darn healthy (knock wood). And will beat it until it comes. I def would like to have the spare assembled so I can just swap over when time comes. But can never determine that. Appreciate the info. Some people are a pain to talk to about it.

Toneloc

What made you want to build a block (other then higher hp) when you could put a used one back in and thrash it till it dies and still have more money in the pocket?

taywan

iTrader: (53)

If I were to put the other one in w 115k ish miles....turn boost up and try 450-+ pop..then I won't have a spare block to build. A friends G threw (1) rod and put 2 holes in the block..