I'm not really knowledgable about the Z I'm just starting to learn. But I do know BMW's and there are 330's (3.0L engine) running 400rwhp on NA kits (with only Intake, ECU, Headers, Camshafts, Throttle-Body, and Ported-Head). Why is it that this doesn't seem possible on a Z is it the high compression ratio or something else?

 

The Z has been around since late 2002. That's your answer.

There hasn't been enough time to fully develop a good NA solution. Headwork is the area that hasn't really been explored.. and most people agree, that if there's power to be found, it's in the heads.

 

I have a hard time believing they can make 400 whp with only that. Got any dyno's with that? My friend has an e36 and we can't anywhere near that number... With F/I. The VQ is a new engine, and people are still figuring it out. It just takes time.

 

UF350Z,

I'm from the BMW world (having concurrently owned an '00 328Ci and '01 330i) and I still remain very close to it, particularly the e46 sector and I can't recall any of the "pioneers" pushing those numbers on a supercharged 3.0L M54, let alone NAd.

 

i agree. give the z more time to be studied and some one will find a way to open the motor up in a hole new way.

 

400whp NA 330 with just bolt-ons and cams? Got any evidence of this? You're talking over a 200hp gain at the crank.

Even E46 M3's have a hard time reaching that kind of performance. Few have done it, but it's very very uncommon and expensive to do correctly.

As far as we know now, the VQ can't really be tweaked above 260rwhp without going inside it. Cams and other internals have shown us gains of 280-300 so far. 300rwhp is a realistic NA goal for this engine with what we have now.

Edit: Some posts popped up before I finished typing... I see i'm not the only one calling BS on the 400hp 330.

 

I'd like to see this magical 400 rwhp N/A beemer also

 

I was a moderator at wwwe46Fanatics.com and I have never seen anyone with hp numbers like that, hell its barely attainable with an ESS or ASA Supercharger...

 

Go back to the Chevy Cavilier forums you troll.

 

One thing that is cool about the Z is that it looks like on a lot of the parts Nissan did their studying and got it done right the first time. Some cars see HUGE gains in HP/TQ by simply upgrading intake. In an import magazine i saw a supra get something like 30 HP just from the intake. We see basically no gains on intake upgrades, that means Nissan knew what they were doing when they designed it. But if we keep working at it we will find some things that they could have done better i am sure.

 

I'm telling you, ITB's (Invidiual Throttle Bodies) will be sick! Lolz. No, there isn't anyone out there making it. Supposedly Tommy Kaira and HKS have them, so just can't wait to see. It's an all motor setup. I think with bolt ons right now, the only thing holding up the power (besides upping the compression) is the intake manifold. Maybe with a better redesigned intake manifold and thinner head gasket (without touching the block; too costly) and all the best bolt ons, I would think it's possible to achieve 340-350 hp. Don't quote me on that. But studying the design of the motor, I think it's achievable. Or maybe I'm just rambling off, and I'm crazy. Yeah, tell me that when 4 years ago, I said deck plates on Honda motors would be sick. They, "Import Builder" said I don't think it's gonna work. 4 years later, tell said deck plates are the ****. Lolz. Ehh...just call me crazy...haha...

 

Whoh... Saint... Wrong!

All the cars with the Crawford Package are showing well over 260... some into the 270s.

Check your figures before you say things!

 

I don't know, well over 260 and into 270 for only plenum, HF cats, and headers seems to be pretty aggressive. Especially considering that in your own sig you have 2/3 of the Crawford Package as well as two additional mods and you are about 13-20 HP shy.

It seems to me that 300 HP is tough with our relatively low redline and our significant torque drop off at high RPM. Increasing that high RPM torque is what will get you the big power increases, and I really think you need to get Cams to do that. Maybe some head work can increase the flow in the top end as well, but I haven't seen to many people tackle that yet (although maybe I've missed their posts).

-D'oh!

 

I have just about every N/A Z mod you can think of. The car runs somewhere between 280 and 310 rwhp depending on which dyno you believe. I am happy with it, but it is damned expensive. A claim that an E46 330i can get 400 rwhp with a few bolt ons is preposterous. I can run circles around that car. Your friend is seriously deluded.

 

I'm not 100% on the HP numbers i'm guesstimating cause someone running the Stage III NA kit on the 330 is getting somewhere in teh vecinity on 300rwhp and I thought i remembered someone saying 400 but that might have been crank...I do know if you go to www.renn-sport.net you can check the engine mods section for the 3 series and the Technik kits (stages I-IV) are available...Everyone is saying that this is not possible on "bolt-ons" but these are bolt on mods. A) it's almost 6 grand for the stage IV kit and B) the head is ported (more displacement) you send them your head they rework it and send it back. They don't have much info up on the website about the specific i'm just going on what people have posted in regards to the numbers...i'd post the link to the posts but the forum was closed down. (E46 Forum of DTM Power, I believe the guys name was Amir or Samir with the Stage IV kit). Again I might be significantly off on the HP numbers but I can say with confidence that it is well over 300. Which I can very well believe considering that the displacement of the engine is now just about what the M3 is (around 3.2L) and it's got a larger TB and cams and proper ECU tuning.

 

UF350Z:

I was/am still a DTM Power member here in australia and I used to own a euro ac schnitzer fully tuned e36 3.2L m3.... and speaking 400 HP either at the crank or at the wheel is very hard even for a m3 (E46) to achieve because the HP is really at the limit on that work-of-art engine already. that's why the new CSL only adds 17HP at the crank with that large CF airbox + extra large throttle body + many other things, and the only way for it to go faster is to reduce the weight of the car. So I guess the guy who owns that car might be just saying out an amazing number to make himself looks proud and POWERFUL amonst his mates...

cheers,

richie

 

No NA BMW 3series makes 400whp.
I have a friend who makes that power with a 3,3l block, some
engine work and
a supercharger blowing with 1 bar!

 

Corrected -- I meant in the 260's

Vandy is at 259 with the crawford package, intake and ECU.

Doug himself maxxed out at 263 with the same package plus the borla exhaust (which has consistently shown ~8rwhp gain)

Bolt on intake and exhaust modifications are good for bringing the Z up to the 260's. Adding more stuff hasn't shown to free up more.

Haven't heard of anyone getting 270+ SAE without cams (or other internals). I'd really love to see it tho!!

 

Porting the head doesn't give you more displacement, it allows more airflow. The only mod to a head that could add displacement is increasing the volume of the combustion chamber.

 

Alright apparently 95% of people missed the point of the post (thank you to the people that did answer it with "the Z is a newer car/engine" and "headwork hasn't been explored")...I'm not sure of the hp numbers..if 400 is inflated then it is...I never saw a dyno of these NA cars so I'm just goin on what people posted...the point that i'm trying to get at is that a 3 liter engine made about more than 100rwhp gains through NA tuning (rwhp on the 3L is about 190ish and the rwhp on the final is no less than 300). The best gains i've seen on an NA 350 is 50 or 60...if you look at HP percentages thats a 50%+ gain on the 3L and a 20% gain on the Z...so i'll ask again...why is it that a 3L can make such a huge percentage gain in HP while the Z, a bigger engine can't make those same percentages.