View Poll Results: Would you like to see Max back?
Hell yeah, unban him!!!
87
64.44%
He deserved it, leave him banned.
29
21.48%
Who Cares: What a Mess
19
14.07%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll
Vote here to bring Max back
08-24-2003, 08:56 PM
#23
Registered User
Bring Max back!! Thats the bottom line, he's a pioneer of the Z33!!! Whats wrong with a bit of controversy between 2 members? Max has passion with what he does, take the good with the bad, or else the site won't be the same and it should be named my350maxlessZ.com.
08-24-2003, 09:09 PM
#24
Oh MaxHax Max. He seemed a little edgy, but I thought he was a good guy. And I'm not really for banning anyone, because if we can't stand up to plain text and occasional bitmaps, what can we stand up to?
08-24-2003, 11:01 PM
#25
There are rules to follow, when you sign up to this forum, there is a blurb that many people dont read, and when you click 'agree' that's saying you personally understand what can and cannot happen on a forum that isnt technically a 'public' forum since it is owned by Tako... yes he did offer some good insight to products for the Z, it was truly unfortunate that he had problems with the ATI kit, a bit of drama here and there would be an understatement... but moderators are here for a reason. to maintain the level of civility in the forums so that ppl can enjoy a good car site.
08-25-2003, 05:26 AM
#27
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whats the problem anyway? are the mods or owner of this site afraid of getting sued for someone elses comments? also, does this mean that we cant give bad reviews about products that we use in fear of being banned ourselves. i think max just felt he was being silenced becuase he wasnt "towing the party line" about the ati and that the mods were in cahoots with the installer. i think this whole episode has got people feeling less free to share their thoughts or express their impressions of certain companies or parts. ive specifically seen stillen trashed over and over again on this site, but when max said something (verified or not) he got banned. so i ask the mods, are we allowed to talk about certain companies only if its a fact that they botched an install or parts? also, if max can prove that the install was what blew his engine, then can he come back? essentially that was the problem right; that he was saying negative things without them being verified first.
08-25-2003, 07:01 AM
#28
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Guilty as Charged!!
The problem is not Max... it's the poor example (in some cases) example that many members of this forum have as socialization. Mike (mod) has a bad habit of jumping on the bandwagon along with many other lemmings. So, when you 'see' that happen, it's only natural to think that it's OK to bash things & companies well beyond what's really necessary - Call it beating it to a bloody pulp if you will.
The ATI thing went on much too long. And the forums provide a painless way to bash and moan more than anyone would ever personally do in a face to face scenario. Some people need this to 'get it out'. Others take advantage of it to inflict pain without consequences. It's easy to hide behind the monitor. What's funny is that MANY members will never post anything because of the core group and how 'grade school' the conversations are....many of these 'types' go over to Fresh Alloy where their 'silly' questions or 'stupid' rants won't get bashed by the 5th grade bully and his/her minions. People take a Sh1tload of typed abuse on this website - that's too bad. But it's a product of the moderators.
In my opinion - which everyone has just like certain anatomy, is that Max is being singled out. There's been a lot more b/s that others should have been banned or disceplined for... I can think of a certain moderator here... (you know who you are).
Kids running kids comes to mind. This will **** many off - but it is after all a forum right? The smilies should give new-comers a quick glimpse of what goes on a lot here.
Ask a question and run like hell is what I tell people about this forum. Sh$t, you can't even relate an experience without somebody taking a nice big D*mp on it and calling somebody an idiot - A lot of ***** envy here. Maybe others just weren't breast fed enough - who friggen knows?!
I have many manufacturers (clients) who would advertise on sites like this - but are afraid its members would invalidate their brand. This would bring more money to the site which would allow things like HIN participation and your very own MY350Z.COM models and such - but they fear the retribution. Here is where a group will interject - "then build sh@t that works forever and never lets us down - always adds horsepower and costs less than I have in my wallet" - [watch the Homer Simpson episode wherein he builds his own car.] I have even more manufacturers that would love to use this forum as a sounding board for products and possible focus group recruiting - this pays also. But .... you can't ask a question without fear of redicule or immediate persecution. It's too bad. This forum has LOTS [and I mean LOTS] of potential to be more than it is now.
The MAX scenario is a product of the moderators' lack of constants (sorry to point this out) IMO. It is an example of what happens when forum discussion all of a sudden becomes 'real' and pain begins to be felt. The moderators can only blame themselves (IMO). I DO APPLAUD them for taking action. But, as in many cases, somebody had to be picked out to be the example... and is always - hind sight is indeed golden.
Stepping off the podium - and now running straight over to Fresh****y another forum....I'll check back on this in about 1 hour when I have a couple of aspirin in me before reading the diatribe that will undoubtedly be hurled in this proverbial direction.
Peace.
The ATI thing went on much too long. And the forums provide a painless way to bash and moan more than anyone would ever personally do in a face to face scenario. Some people need this to 'get it out'. Others take advantage of it to inflict pain without consequences. It's easy to hide behind the monitor. What's funny is that MANY members will never post anything because of the core group and how 'grade school' the conversations are....many of these 'types' go over to Fresh Alloy where their 'silly' questions or 'stupid' rants won't get bashed by the 5th grade bully and his/her minions. People take a Sh1tload of typed abuse on this website - that's too bad. But it's a product of the moderators.
In my opinion - which everyone has just like certain anatomy, is that Max is being singled out. There's been a lot more b/s that others should have been banned or disceplined for... I can think of a certain moderator here... (you know who you are).
Kids running kids comes to mind. This will **** many off - but it is after all a forum right? The smilies should give new-comers a quick glimpse of what goes on a lot here.
Ask a question and run like hell is what I tell people about this forum. Sh$t, you can't even relate an experience without somebody taking a nice big D*mp on it and calling somebody an idiot - A lot of ***** envy here. Maybe others just weren't breast fed enough - who friggen knows?!
I have many manufacturers (clients) who would advertise on sites like this - but are afraid its members would invalidate their brand. This would bring more money to the site which would allow things like HIN participation and your very own MY350Z.COM models and such - but they fear the retribution. Here is where a group will interject - "then build sh@t that works forever and never lets us down - always adds horsepower and costs less than I have in my wallet" - [watch the Homer Simpson episode wherein he builds his own car.] I have even more manufacturers that would love to use this forum as a sounding board for products and possible focus group recruiting - this pays also. But .... you can't ask a question without fear of redicule or immediate persecution. It's too bad. This forum has LOTS [and I mean LOTS] of potential to be more than it is now.
The MAX scenario is a product of the moderators' lack of constants (sorry to point this out) IMO. It is an example of what happens when forum discussion all of a sudden becomes 'real' and pain begins to be felt. The moderators can only blame themselves (IMO). I DO APPLAUD them for taking action. But, as in many cases, somebody had to be picked out to be the example... and is always - hind sight is indeed golden.
Stepping off the podium - and now running straight over to Fresh****y another forum....I'll check back on this in about 1 hour when I have a couple of aspirin in me before reading the diatribe that will undoubtedly be hurled in this proverbial direction.
Peace.
08-25-2003, 07:48 AM
#29
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I will make this short and sweet.
I agree with the moderators choice. I understand that it must have been a hard choice, but I have to say congrats. I will be let down if I see a reversal, of the banning. (don't show weakness
)
Reson why I support this banning is......
Post Quantity DOES NOT equall Quality.
EA
I agree with the moderators choice. I understand that it must have been a hard choice, but I have to say congrats. I will be let down if I see a reversal, of the banning. (don't show weakness
) Reson why I support this banning is......
Post Quantity DOES NOT equall Quality.
EA
Last edited by TheSVTKid; 08-25-2003 at 07:51 AM.
08-25-2003, 08:54 AM
#31
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Well as allways I do not agree with it being counter productive.. A reversal would be a good thing for the Mods.. Simply cause they didnt fallow a system that we agreed apon for banning people. They made a mistake and for them to go out on a limb and fix it would show the true greatness of what a mod can do..
If you think about it banning him has be counter productive..
If you think about it banning him has be counter productive..
08-25-2003, 08:57 AM
#32
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Re: Guilty as Charged!!
Originally posted by BLOBYU
The problem is not Max... it's the poor example (in some cases) example that many members of this forum have as socialization. Mike (mod) has a bad habit of jumping on the bandwagon along with many other lemmings. So, when you 'see' that happen, it's only natural to think that it's OK to bash things & companies well beyond what's really necessary - Call it beating it to a bloody pulp if you will.
. . .
Stepping off the podium - and now running straight over to Fresh****y another forum....I'll check back on this in about 1 hour when I have a couple of aspirin in me before reading the diatribe that will undoubtedly be hurled in this proverbial direction.
Peace.
The problem is not Max... it's the poor example (in some cases) example that many members of this forum have as socialization. Mike (mod) has a bad habit of jumping on the bandwagon along with many other lemmings. So, when you 'see' that happen, it's only natural to think that it's OK to bash things & companies well beyond what's really necessary - Call it beating it to a bloody pulp if you will.
. . .
Stepping off the podium - and now running straight over to Fresh****y another forum....I'll check back on this in about 1 hour when I have a couple of aspirin in me before reading the diatribe that will undoubtedly be hurled in this proverbial direction.
Peace.
I understand the mods
I understand MAX
I even understand FFP
Everyone made some good points. But somebody has to understand that every time we loose such involved member as MAX, the site suffers. This ban was a bit extreme IMHO. Most of us treat our car like a living/breathing thing. I can only imagine the things I would say/do if someone screwed with my baby. My point is that this should be a friendly community. Lots of people come to this site with problems, angry, posting into the wrong forums. We, as a community, should try to help each other.
Max helped hundreds of forum members, myself included, by providing valuable information. But as soon as he has a problem himself what do we do to say our thanks? We ban him! To add insult to the injury we ban him for issuing one too many warnings about posting in the wrong forum!? BLOBYU is right: this is 3rd grade. I am more than willing to sort through all his rants and posts just to see if I can find a bit on information that would help him get his car back on track.
Just my .02
Peace
Dmitry
08-25-2003, 09:09 AM
#33
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Being a Mod on our local car message board ( http://www.tidewaterracing.com/forums/ ), something that has worked when a member is zealous about subject and won't let go of it is to put them in a "Time out Status".
By Banning a popular member you get everyone into a furball and nothing good comes out of it. I think some PM's between the parties and a little cool off time does wonders vice hitting the BAN button. And I have used the BAN button before and then asked the Admin to reset the account after a few emails. Matter of Fact one of our Mod's was a twiced Ban member before, and now he is one of the best Mod's we have. Guess we are little different that we can talk to most of our members on any given weekend out at the local hangouts.
And to be honest, till there is some way of controlling the timing I won't be putting an ATI on the wifes car. I have a D1-SC on my 99 Formula and it would not take 8 psi on a stock tune no matter how much fuel I add. The rule of thumb is 2 degs for each pound of boost. I don't think Nissan left that much timing out of the stock program. And Knock will destroy an engine in nanoseconds.
Just my $0.02.
By Banning a popular member you get everyone into a furball and nothing good comes out of it. I think some PM's between the parties and a little cool off time does wonders vice hitting the BAN button. And I have used the BAN button before and then asked the Admin to reset the account after a few emails. Matter of Fact one of our Mod's was a twiced Ban member before, and now he is one of the best Mod's we have. Guess we are little different that we can talk to most of our members on any given weekend out at the local hangouts.
And to be honest, till there is some way of controlling the timing I won't be putting an ATI on the wifes car. I have a D1-SC on my 99 Formula and it would not take 8 psi on a stock tune no matter how much fuel I add. The rule of thumb is 2 degs for each pound of boost. I don't think Nissan left that much timing out of the stock program. And Knock will destroy an engine in nanoseconds.
Just my $0.02.
08-25-2003, 01:23 PM
#34
to the last 2 posters, I agree with some of your points.
first off max was given a cooldown period(read only) a while ago. after this period, his actions persisted.
also the ban was extreme, and was not what any of us wanted to do. we continuously asked him to cease his crusade based on accusations and not facts. repeatedly he ignored us(far beyond the 3 strikes). he left us with no other course of action.
first off max was given a cooldown period(read only) a while ago. after this period, his actions persisted.
also the ban was extreme, and was not what any of us wanted to do. we continuously asked him to cease his crusade based on accusations and not facts. repeatedly he ignored us(far beyond the 3 strikes). he left us with no other course of action.
08-25-2003, 03:28 PM
#36
Registered User
Let Max back on!
What's the the problem here Mods?
It sounds to me like you guys are taking this thing on more of a personal basis rather than a justifiable basis.
What, are you going to ban me as well for speaking the facts?
There's no reason for keeping Max out?
What rule did Max break????
Max is a valuble commodity to this forum, you need to do whats best for the community and bring him back asap!!!
I wouldn't normally speak out like this but its a just cause and for the good of the forum.
later
Craig
What's the the problem here Mods?
It sounds to me like you guys are taking this thing on more of a personal basis rather than a justifiable basis.
What, are you going to ban me as well for speaking the facts?
There's no reason for keeping Max out?
What rule did Max break????
Max is a valuble commodity to this forum, you need to do whats best for the community and bring him back asap!!!
I wouldn't normally speak out like this but its a just cause and for the good of the forum.
later
Craig
Last edited by zoasis; 08-25-2003 at 03:51 PM.
08-25-2003, 04:39 PM
#38
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Why all the censorship? We are just trying to speak in a calm civilized manner. I have a feeling the mods know they screwed up and made a decision that the vast majority are against (as demonstrated by the poll), and are now trying to drop the subject and cover up for their mistake and hope it all magically goes away. I generally agree with what the mods do, but to let someone like Stewie, who has had NO positive posts and has instigated a firefight many times is still here, but Max who has helped hundreds of people and has a disagreement with one person gets banned, is ridiculous. Will this post get deleted too?
08-25-2003, 05:22 PM
#39
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Just because Max spent a lot of money paying people to modify his car does not mean he is special. He made a lot of posts, but as far as total quantity of technical information, there wasn't a whole lot of it. I don't want Max or anyone else that contributes to get banned, but he brought it on himself over and over and over again.
Mods, you made the right decision. There is only so many times you can tell a person to STFU before you finally have to shut him up by force. This is not a public forum, this is a privately owned business.
It would be similar if I went onto a medical forum and posted that a doctor told him that Tylenol contains trace amounts of cyanide. Max didn't know what the hell was going on with his car any more than you or I did, but he continued to bash another company without knowing the facts.
The site will go on just fine, possibly better without his negativity. There are many people here who can do the same thing he did who won't take criticism as a personal attack. Don't forget Max can still log on under a different username so if he really wants to come back he will.
I think that there are maybe 10-15 people here who love to bicker and this is just your opportunity. I really don't understand why the mods keep responding to the childishness of this. Mods... don't waste your time explaining yourselves because it's never gonna be good enough for the people who want to fight about it. If you unban him they're gonna bash on you because it's a validation for them if you don't they're gonna call it a conspiracy.
Mods, you made the right decision. There is only so many times you can tell a person to STFU before you finally have to shut him up by force. This is not a public forum, this is a privately owned business.
It would be similar if I went onto a medical forum and posted that a doctor told him that Tylenol contains trace amounts of cyanide. Max didn't know what the hell was going on with his car any more than you or I did, but he continued to bash another company without knowing the facts.
The site will go on just fine, possibly better without his negativity. There are many people here who can do the same thing he did who won't take criticism as a personal attack. Don't forget Max can still log on under a different username so if he really wants to come back he will.
I think that there are maybe 10-15 people here who love to bicker and this is just your opportunity. I really don't understand why the mods keep responding to the childishness of this. Mods... don't waste your time explaining yourselves because it's never gonna be good enough for the people who want to fight about it. If you unban him they're gonna bash on you because it's a validation for them if you don't they're gonna call it a conspiracy.
08-25-2003, 07:25 PM
#40
Registered User
Originally posted by luvdatz
Just because Max spent a lot of money paying people to modify his car does not mean he is special. He made a lot of posts, but as far as total quantity of technical information, there wasn't a whole lot of it. I don't want Max or anyone else that contributes to get banned, but he brought it on himself over and over and over again.
Mods, you made the right decision. There is only so many times you can tell a person to STFU before you finally have to shut him up by force. This is not a public forum, this is a privately owned business.
It would be similar if I went onto a medical forum and posted that a doctor told him that Tylenol contains trace amounts of cyanide. Max didn't know what the hell was going on with his car any more than you or I did, but he continued to bash another company without knowing the facts.
The site will go on just fine, possibly better without his negativity. There are many people here who can do the same thing he did who won't take criticism as a personal attack. Don't forget Max can still log on under a different username so if he really wants to come back he will.
I think that there are maybe 10-15 people here who love to bicker and this is just your opportunity. I really don't understand why the mods keep responding to the childishness of this. Mods... don't waste your time explaining yourselves because it's never gonna be good enough for the people who want to fight about it. If you unban him they're gonna bash on you because it's a validation for them if you don't they're gonna call it a conspiracy.
Just because Max spent a lot of money paying people to modify his car does not mean he is special. He made a lot of posts, but as far as total quantity of technical information, there wasn't a whole lot of it. I don't want Max or anyone else that contributes to get banned, but he brought it on himself over and over and over again.
Mods, you made the right decision. There is only so many times you can tell a person to STFU before you finally have to shut him up by force. This is not a public forum, this is a privately owned business.
It would be similar if I went onto a medical forum and posted that a doctor told him that Tylenol contains trace amounts of cyanide. Max didn't know what the hell was going on with his car any more than you or I did, but he continued to bash another company without knowing the facts.
The site will go on just fine, possibly better without his negativity. There are many people here who can do the same thing he did who won't take criticism as a personal attack. Don't forget Max can still log on under a different username so if he really wants to come back he will.
I think that there are maybe 10-15 people here who love to bicker and this is just your opportunity. I really don't understand why the mods keep responding to the childishness of this. Mods... don't waste your time explaining yourselves because it's never gonna be good enough for the people who want to fight about it. If you unban him they're gonna bash on you because it's a validation for them if you don't they're gonna call it a conspiracy.
10-15 people here who love to bicker??
This is a serious issue, banning an active member who has done so many positive things for the Z33 community for reasons that I feel are not justified.
It looks like the vast majority think Max should be brought back so lets bring him back. These mods who banned Max are only a few individuals who have decided to ban him, they screwed up bigtime IMO and if they don't bring him back, they are doing an injustice not only to themselves, but an injustice for the entire my350z website.
Come on Mods, do the right thing and listen to what the members are saying, Re-instate Max!!!