350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

so... i am going to be building my motor very soon here (ordered almost all of my parts...just waiting for them to get here)
i know that it is recommended to not go WOT and take it easy for the first 1000miles...
...my question: when the engine is assembled and the car is immediately tuned on a dyno: do you have it tuned for say 9-10psi and not push it and then retune it 1000miles later? or can you tune it for 17-18psi right off the bat..but make the dyno session the only time you push the engine until 1000miles later?

Thanks.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Ask 10 engine builders on the correct way to break in a motor, and I guarantee you will get 10 different answers.

Personally, I would go with the advise of the piston manufacterer, since the most critical piece to the break in process is seating the rings against the piston wall. Only the piston manufactuer can advise on what they recommend, based on the type of rings you are using, and the type of application the pistons are designed for.

From what Arias tells me, and others seem to agree....the motor should be first idled for 20 mins at first start. Then the car should be put on the dyno, and progressively run at WOT to higher and higher RPM levels. The break-in process can be completed in a day.

Again, this is just one man's opinion, and there are a zillion other methods that could work. But I would be fearful of baby'ing the motor....the rings may never properly seat.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

heres what I do with a turbo engine break in...


start the car... let it idle up to temp and give it a few revs here and there after the oil temp is starting to get near normal. Then I shut it down and change the oil. Then I fire it up and drive it around somewhat spirited but not beating the crap out of it and make sure its got a break-in worthy tune and I put maybe 50 miles on it. Then I change the oil. Then I hop straight on the dyno for low boost passes and make sure its all good and then thats it... after 800-1000 miles and one more oil change im ready to see what shes got.

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

so u dont dyno it right off the bat??? isnt it dangerous to go put 50 mile son the car if it hasnt been tuned at all? running too rich or worse yet running lean on this brand new built motor??? i don't know, so that's why i'm asking, thanks for your imput phunk and gq_626...
am i making sense or am i crazy???
(i know i'm a little crazy, i just spent a crap load of money on my car in the past 4 days, but u know what i mean=-)

phunk

iTrader: (21)

why would it not be tuned? if the car ran well when you took the engine out, it will run well when you put one back in. if you made changes to the injectors or something maybe i can see that... but typically you get it running on a known good tune and then go from there. lowering compression and doing headwork and stuff isnt gonna make it so you can drive the car around normal withou a retune, you just need to retune for full throttle... again unless you changed the fuel system and/or engine management while the engine was out it will run just fine.. especially cause its got a MAF sensor.

ZRAYGO

I was told by both the builder and xs engineering (installer of the HKS FCON VPRO) and also the future tuner of my car, Brainstorm Engineering that a good break in period is from about 1500-2500 miles. because it alows the sleeves to settle in the car. Stop and go traffic is the best. The worst part abou the whole thing is the wait. They stressed to me that I have to be patient. So on the 19th of Feb of 2005 I will be posting my numbers (before and after). We are shooting for 515-520hp. I will have my return fuel system installed that same day and the car will be done. Again, like Sharif said, every tuner is different.

350Zteve

iTrader: (6)

About 20-30 minutes of idling will do most of it. Then drive for about 20-30 miles. That's ALL you need. If your installing new cams and a new clutch, I give those a few more miles.

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

with my install...i am changing to 550cc injectors and installing the aam fuel suystem..i assume that will change the tune , right?

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

It will change the tune, since you will now have stable, and then rising fuel pressure as the boost builds...exactly as it should be. The injectors will be scaled with the eManage, so the car will run and start OK. It's most likely just going to run very rich at the top end...but its not unsafe to drive without tuning. You'll just want to get it retuned ASAP. And make sure you have a wideband O2 gauge hooked up at all times after the rebuild...just to be 100% certain you arent running lean.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

why not just install the engine with the fuel and tuning you had before and drive it nice for engine break in, and then swap out and tune later??

running an engine rich is just as bad as lean... rich washs the oil off your cylinder walls and wears at your rings and hone due to excessive friction from lack of cylinder wall lubrication.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

I dont think he'll be running that rich just by changing injectors...do you? The 550's will be scaled...just like the 440's were.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

i have no idea how it will run since I have no control over what he is doing with his car. I always recommend that you break in an engine on a known good tune... what is the point in driving around on your new fuel system while breaking in your engine if your not gonna tune it for 2000 miles anyway... especially if it leaves you in questionable tune.

booger

iTrader: (6)

I tune the Vortech with the Split Second . DFW350Z [ I think it his name ] sent me his 550 injector fuel map . He had to scale them back alot to get it to run on the vacuum side of the map . A [10] is no change and with the 550's they got it back to [9.1] . He still has his Vortech FMU in place [8to1 rising rate] and I have the return System [1to1 rising rate] . So after cacuum and starting to go into boost I will have to tune it
I plan on running the new motor for 20 minutes on start up . Then stay out of boost for 500 miles , change oil , then tune for boost

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

phunk,
excuse my ignorance, i dont understand your point or suggestion

are u saying to rebuild the motor, hold off on swapping the injectors or aam fuel system, drive it around for a few hundred miles (with 27 oil changes thrown in) and then swap out the injectors, upgrade the fuel system, THEN retune?

is this what you are saying?, please elaborate

thanks,
ps: kidding about the 27 oil changes, of course

g356gear

iTrader: (12)

Exactly !! The biggest problem with the new motor is trying to break it in with larger injectors and no tune for them. Too much fuel will toast the rings in no time....then back apart it comes for a fresh hone and new rings at the least. Phunk is right .... break it in on a known safe tune and them play with it when you can dyno right after doing the fuel system changes. Save yourself some headaches.

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

is thia what everyone does? there's no way to get the bigger injectors and aam fuel system done at the same time as my engine build? i'd like to save on having my car in and out of the shop, for one,......and like to save on some labor costs, for two...but not if its gonna damage my motor in the longrun...is there a safe way to break the new motor in, get everything installed at once, and dyno it immediately...i dont mind re-dynoing it a week or two later??? any advice guys?

phunk

iTrader: (21)

we gave you our advice... if you wanna do it right break the engine in on a known good tune.

not only that, but the more things you do all at once you are multiplying you chance of someone screwing something up.

just get the car running and break in the engine and enjoy it at low boost for a little bit and then go crazy.

you gotta understand that it appears that very few are able to keep a FI Z with decent boost levels in 1 piece anyway.. if i were you i wouldnt rush things just to save money.

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

the not staying in one piece comment...are you referring to even forged internals? has anyone blown on an engine rebuild?...or are you ONLY referring to all of the bolt on kits blowing up stck motors? i want to do things right...cheap is not an option at this point, my 30k car is now a 50k car!

dansouliere

I dont think the stock APS tune would work on a freshly built block since the compression ratio is droped.

Not sure about the stock Greddy tune but im sure both apply the same.

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

my car was previously tuned to 8.5 lbs or so putting down approx 465 (corrected) rwhp...again, that equates to approx 380rwhp here at 5500ft altitude.
it was tuned to maintain an a/f ratio of 11.4-11.6 across the band (for the most part a pretty healthy tune) i was pulling 5 degrees of timing with the greddy ignition harness.
...so that was the current tune...wouldn't putting lower compression pistons thus changing the cylinder pressure, make the previous tune be pretty far off anyway???
i DO appreciate the feedback, believe me, i want to do this right the second time around(should of would of could of-donr forged internal from day one)
THANKS