I agree that "resume" was not the right word so maybe I should have worded it differently but I haven't heard anything bad about AEBS. You will see that I also said I assume that they are more than up to par since I do not have experience with them. But if you research a little bit, you can find sunken sleeve stories with every sleeve manufacturer, that seems to be the downside of sleeving, there is always that risk. The tuner crowd that has the most experience with sleeving is no doubt the Honda crowd. They predominantly use Benson and Golden Eagle but people that have AEBS seem to like them. Before Gurgen's car and Greddy's car that you mention, I have not heard of sunken sleeves myself with the little experience I have. So considering there are not too many AEBS built 350z's out there, I would not bash them. Instead, I would look into why the sleeves sunk.

But regardless, the sleeving is not the issue we're discussing here. It's the shortblock package that AEBS offers without the sleeves. What is their process and how does it compare to what SGP offers in their upgraded longblock. If one is better than the other, what is exactly better to justify a price difference, that's what I am wondering. Something tells me AEBS just doesn't slap the pistons and rods together either but then who knows, I could be wrong. Is that what you suggested they do? I'd like to figure out what's included in their package, then compare.

Please don't take this as bashing anyone, I'm only trying to give a chance to every tuner since I think we need to look outside the box (box meaning forums in this case) because not every info about every good tuner/engine builder is available on the forums.

 

AEBS is starting a record with the 350Z's and G35's...they already have a bad record with other Nissan owners (I think Sentra owners had ALOT of sunk sleeves).

AEBS doesn't really sell "packages"...not the same as what SGP Racing sells.

 

So - lets say I pull the motor myself (probably a stretch that I could do this, although bruschi gives me hope), pull the heads, and manage to get it to a 'reputable' shop. I either have to do all that work myself or pay someone to do it even if going with the SGP option. What would people estimate the labor to cost for pulling apart the stock block, and 'creating' what the SGP 'Ultimate Short Block' is with me providing the parts

Ultimate short block: $3900 + $1000 core

Block oil passages cleaned
Block redecked
Block Bored and Honed using a Torque Plate
Crank balanced
Crank journals polished
New Main and Rod bearings w/ceramic coating
Pauter Rods
ARP Rod Bolts
CP Pistons .020 over(8.5:1 or 11.5:1)
*Ceramic coating on Pistons
*ARP Main Studs

Going Deep or someone has the 'How to do twins right the first time' thread, and the only parts that need to be purchased are:

New Main and rod bearings ($200) - I don't put a lot of stock in the 'ceramic coating,' personal opinion
Rods / Pistons ($2000)
ARP Main and Head studs ($500)

That's less than $3K in parts (assuming gaskets and other small parts along the way run things up a little). Since I live in the DC area, freighting my original block to them and having the built short block freighted back will cost at least $750. That almost covers the core charge! It'd probably make more sense to keep the stock block just in case something bad happens. So assuming I choose not to send in the stock block, this shortblock is going to run $4900+$750 shipping, ~$5650.

No offense to SGP, because everyone who has had them do their work seems happy (no mean feat given the crappy service and lack of attention to detail most 'shops' seem to have), but I'd offer some other guidance. Get friendly with some real racers near you. Find the guy who builds their motors. Ask nicely if he'll build yours for you. That's what I'm planning at this point.

If you're local to SGP (or someone else reputable), I think that's worth a lot. Being able to walk around a shop and see for your own eyes the employees attitudes, workspaces, and what else is being done there has a lot of value to me. Not to mention, heaven forbid, there is a problem with the work... The freighting alone is likely a major cost impediment to getting it rectified.

Just because the Z is a (relatively) new car does not mean the motor is some super-special thing that someone who's been building race motors for 25 years can't work on. Anyone whose livelyhood is earned screwing together internal combustion rotating assemblies and has a reputation for doing quality work will be able to do this, and probably for less money when all the variables are factored in.

 

You know what amolaver, I think you are right about shipping back the stock block. If I was to go with that package, I might as well keep my core since it is going to run about the same price for freight. That is the package that I am looking at. 3900 for the package and pay an extra 1000 for the block. so that puts me at 4900. Most likely there will be more things to buy and it will add up quick. Seeing that my budget is only 10K, that gives me more space to work with. So I assume the shop will charge me about 2K to pull my motor out and put it back in. That still leaves me with only 6900. Now is when I need to get the full system and the larger injectors and a good reliable clutch. so that should put me between 2500. It will fit my budget really well.

Also, I called up Scott Performance, and they quoted me for 10K with parts and install with the unichip unit as well as dynotuning. And also, they will try to work everything to fit my budget. They been in the business for over 25 years. I will have to stop by their shop in person to talk everything over. They seem real friendly. Now I cant decide to either do the SGP package or the Scott Performance deal.

 

I would take off the heads and etc. and assemble them onto the shortblock, then just take out the block and install the new setup. (do that at the shop) Not sure if that might be cheaper than just taking out the whole engine all at once.

The pistons alone are ~$1200 for all 6, and Pauter rods are about $1200, so you are about $400 off on the $2k quote. The installing of the parts are pretty good, probably even better than most shops.

I'd only take my car to a place that has worked on a car like mine and had success...otherwise they will most likely make a mistake for some reason of another. JMO...I just know that there are very very few that go to shops that don't work with similar cars and have success.

 

Pistons are only in the 600-800 range.

 

Not CP pistons...

 

agreed - Sharif has arias for $750

 

Shipping of a short block to most parts of the US is under $300 each way. In most cases it is $200-$250 to most major cities. A complete long block runs $350-$500 each way.

Again I will say....do what ever is best for you. I am not here to say come to SGP or else . If you have a local machine shop that you feel comfortable with and it works out cheaper to get it done locally then more power to you.

I just want to make sure people who come on here saying we are overpriced take into consideration exactly what they get for the money. You will find that our pricing is just as good if not better with all services considered.

 

Kyle,

How much hp could I achieve with the ultimate short block and my set up? Look in sig for my mods.

 

Actually it's $680 for 8.6:1 CR and .020 overbore, that's beside the point. Arias pistons aren't included in the kit that SGP Racing sells. The CP pistons are over $1000 if you check around.

 

Nis, are you lowering my prices again? They are, and have been $750 shipped for a while now.

 

Like I said in my post - I'm not trying to bash SGP in any way. Having some positive feedback from folks who've had you do the work goes a long way in an environment like this where bad press can crush any possible business, but good press makes you the defacto standard. All I'm saying is that *IF* you have a reputable machine shop / engine builder nearby, and I think most people in metropolitan areas do whether they know it or not, it may be cheaper to work with someone locally. I absolutely believe that having someone local *CAN* make the process much simpler - not that it absolutely will, but it can make what should be small bumps in the process easier to deal with. That being said, given the experience SGP has with the VQ, it may give someone piece of mind to pay a little more (never mind the work/parts themselves, just factoring in the freghting). I can understand that even if I don't agree.

My main point is that working with someone locally has some advantages *FOR ME*, and *I* think it does for others as well who may just not realize it. Everyone's situation is slightly different, so the answers to what appear to be the same question on the surface really can (and probably should be) different. Factoring in whether their Z can be down for 3 months (re-using the existing block as opposed to something like an SGP core swap), cost considerations, whether you can do some of the work yourself or not (be it a technical / time / space issue), whether packaged offerings like what SGP does meet your needs/expectations, etc. All of those variables should be factored in to how someone goes about doing their build.

Food for thought, nothing more.

ahm

 

Now it is getting too out of hand. This thread is not meant to flame SGP or any other companies out there. I was looking for guidence not trash talking. So please help the needed and stop arguing about who is better than who, but rather give some good advice to my engine building needs.

 

I always hate to post when these threads get violent, but there have only been a handful of VQ motors built, and by sheer numbers, SGP has built the most, followed by Z1, followed by AEBS, and then a few other shops. There are shops like the one Ernie and Todd went to that have now built 2 Z motors successfully. Sharif's shop did a great job as well. So, yes, other shops can do a good job.

But the fact is, AEBS has only done a few sleeves and they have had some sink, that "appears" to be a problem. If it is not, you would think the owners would let us know since they are on the board. Z1 sold a core that should not have gone into a car. (Sorry Gurgen) So 2 of the top 3 shops have had issues. SGP has the best track record so far with the most built VQ's and 0 major problems.

Feel free to spend your money the way you like, but don't hate on a shop that has not failed yet. Numbers speak for themselves. The more you build, the more problems you will have based on statistics. So why are shops with only a few built motors having problems while the shop with the most has 0?? You have to at least ask yourself these questions before you drop a large amount of cash building your motor. It is not rocket science, but as witnessed on this board.. lots of things can and will go wrong. At the end of the day what really matters? Who will stand behind their work? Answer this, and you have found your shop. A few of the companies will not do this. SGP is not one of them. They offer a warranty included in the price and allow you to purchase a longer one. SGP, AEBS and Z1 were all at the top of my list 1 year ago and 1 year later, my decision was easy.

 

Dude, you seriously need to chill out. Your calling Kyle a child when your actions are no where near the maturity level of an adult.

 

D'oh, my bad.

 

Last time I checked, you don't have to search Yahoo for SGP Racing, ask any Nissan enthusiast what they have heard about SGP Racing...

I had never heard of AEBS Racing until they came out with a stroker kit for the 350Z...

Building a motor isn't rocket science? What does that say for AEBS installing sleeves improperly and them failing then?

So a shop has to make parts to be "worthy" now??? AEBS started to sell products, and the products they sell they would rather do the work themselves to insure it was done properly (which, isn't saying much, look how many sleeves have failed). AEBS is not a "shop" you can take parts to get installed...

Any 18 year old can? Can any 18 year old start a 90% positive reputation among all Nissan enthusiasts from installing parts and making good head-way with Nissan's on the drag track? No...

You need to watch your attitude too, i'll let this one fly since it doesn't sound like you know much of what you are talking about, the next immature outburst like this will get you warned.

 

This guy is obviously a troll with all of his 2 posts. Either that or he works for AEBS.

On another note, I think I will get my built motor sooner than I thought. I just had the greddy tt installed and they were tuning my car today when it started making noise. My shop says it sounds like the valve springs or rockers. They are going to check it out in the morning. The shop is speculating that because I had the rev limiter raised to 7100rpms the valves springs took a crap. I called TS and they said they have never had any problems before.

The car is still strapped down on the dyno. If it is anything major where they have to pull the motor, I plan to get my built motor.

Kyle do you have any ultimate short blocks available? If not, how long will it take if I ship you my block?

 

One thing I want to ask Kyle, I am just worried if I was to get the block from SGP, that the shipping might cause a problem with the block. Shipping can cause some damage to the block and just was wondering how you guys ship them out. Is it crated and strapped down somehow? Just wanted to insure myself when I order the block. That is the only thing that is holding me back right now. I gotta shop around for prices and a good tuner/installer.