Brandon@Forged

In the Z/G world, yes. Thanks, and I hope your engine build-up goes smooth as well.

Brandon@Forged

Tim, sorry for the thread hi-jack.

joshbrittain

this is the dumbest post ever. It started off as a post I checked often, because Im doing an engine build up soon myself, but quickly deteriorated into a pissing contest to see which AEBS fan could be the most childish.

to the AEBS crowd- your immaturity is doing more damage for AEBS than anything positive you have to say. I'll admit it- I dont know much about this- thats why Im here- but your attitude is turning me off to AEBS more and more with each post of yours.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

It's such a waste when a perfectly good thread turns into this.

ImportPartsPro

iTrader: (512)

Yeah agreed...

Again if anyone would like information about our motor builds or even any questions for that matter...shoot me an email and I will be more then happy to answer them

westpak

iTrader: (19)

The problem is that most of the people that get into the imature back and forth probably don't have any intentions in getting a rebuild or a TT kit.

Everyone needs to make their own research and decide which avenue is better for you but to sit and bash companies is childish.

cquence 350 [Z]

No problem Brandon! Lets get back to the subject now can we? Here is another quote I got from Scott Performance:

They quoted me for 10K (thats parts and labor). What is included is all the main stuff I need like rods and so on. You get the idea. Now what I just wanted to ask you guys is it worth it? Also included is the Unichip. I guess that will control my timing since the E-Manage is not fully capable of doing. And it will also adjust my A/F ratios. All this included with time on the dyno as well. Ted from Scott Performance is also a very nice guy and I stated my budget and he is willing to work out a reasonable price for me. Not like Z car, they wouldn't work it out with me and told me that he is on a learning basis, so the more cars he does the cheaper he can charge people.

Now what do you guys think of Scott Performance? I still have to ask him about me going the SGP Racing block package and how much they are willing to do the install and tuning for.

G35cTT

iTrader: (2)

I'm doing a build myself as well, I'm choosing to go to AEBS. I was trying to get some info on the blown sleeves to see if it was a Z or G. How's that childish?

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

I had some problems with my motor and my build is coming sooner than later. My motor will be pulled from my car on Monday and I am shipping it to SGP for the ultimate short block package. I would not trust anyone else with the work. Knowing that SGP is builing my block will help me sleep better at night for the next 4 weeks or so till I get my motor back.

westpak

iTrader: (19)

Man that sucks you just got it back and not much time to have fun, good luck.

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

I'm not clear on what Scott Performance is quoting you for. Does the $10K include a turbo kit? Here's my list of necessary parts and estimated pricing - anything marked with an * is optional, at least on stock boost:

pistons 1000
rods 1500
bearings 250
head/main studs 350
*oil cooler 500
gaskets 300
*return fuel system 1000
clutch 1000
turbo kit 6000
tuning 1000
*exhaust 1000
gauges 1000

----

14900 (12400 minus options)

I'm not sure how any shop could charge $10K inclusive of a turbo kit and make money. So I'm going to assume the $10K is the motor work, but no turbo kit. That drops the estimate to $8900 (or $6400 w/o some of the gravy). However, are they going to re-use your existing block, or build a second short block?

Can you get a more accurate read on what they are including for the $10K price?

ahm

edit: added gauges

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

because of my earlier posts re:SGP packages vs local machine shop, i want to clarify my perspective.

all these parts are just pieces. rods/pistons/bearings/etc. they may be the $1000/ea titanium rods from crower. but they are still just parts. one little mistake in assembly - one little mis-measured bearing, and all these parts go bang in big way. finding a machine shop that has the right reputation, and when (if you can) visit them gives you a warm fuzzy that these folks know what the fork they are talking about, can't be overstressed. if you go to a shop and they don't have a hospital-like clean room to do assembly - walk away. this is no messing around, precision work. i'm pretty confident in my mechanical abilities, but would i try handling this job myself, especially given that my only workspace is my single car garage? not a chance in hell. maybe if i had built a dozen motors before, but I haven't, and I will have a *LOT* of money tied up in parts. I want to know that the guy measuring clearances not only has done this many times before, but that he has the right tools, the right environment, and the attitude that this work might as well be for his own vehicle.

as an example of what I mean, in researching rods, i learned that most rod manufacturers don't measure the rod bolt tension in lb/ft. they measure the bolt stretch - as i recall, something along the lines of 5 thou (DO NOT USE - WAG!). another item GQ found out was the use of a torque plate when honng the cylnders. ask if they have one for the vq. if not, find out if they are willing to make one / borrow one / use one you provide. so ask the potential builder about things like this. Do your homework before handing over thousands of dollars.

ahm

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

I never even got the car back...had problems on the dyno . My shop is saying that since I had the rev limiter raised to 7100 I damaged the valves. The bad news is I have to drop more money right now, the good news is a will have a 500whp monster in about 2 months.

westpak

iTrader: (19)

The valves are that delicate that they bend from 500 rpms more?? hmmmm keep us updated when you tear it down.

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, I am not buying it either, but nothing blew through my block. Kyle will be able to give me a better idea of what happened when he tears it down. If it was the shops fault I don't feel I should have to pay the labor to pull and reinstall the motor.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

[QUOTE='cquence 350 [Z]'] Also included is the Unichip. I guess that will control my timing since the E-Manage is not fully capable of doing. And it will also adjust my A/F ratios.

QUOTE]


The eManage retards timing just like the Unchip does. The Unichip, however, captures the crank angle signal pulse, and delays that, wheras the EManage grabs the coil wires, and delays those. They are both accomplishing the same thing.

So he is ditching the eManage completely? I would actually be interested in seeing how a Unchip runs on a Greddy car. The only reason I prefer the eManage is becuase you dont have to be authorized dealer to tune them. But with the eManage setup, with a pressure harness for MAP tuning, and the timing harness for timing control, they work in much the same manner.

cquence 350 [Z]

I am not sure if they are going to ditch the E-manage completely. I havent really go through everything thoroughly with them. It was just a quick quote that I wanted to get. And yes Amolaver, it is without the turbo kit. I already have the Greddy TT. So you are saying that the shop is overpricing my build-up? They are going build it from my stock block. And on your list of parts to buy, you can ditch the gauges and exhaust and the turbo kit.

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

No - not saying they are overpriced. My numbers included zero labor - all parts cost.

So, to clarify, you are going to pull the Z into the shop and leave it. They are going to pull the motor, rebuild with forged goodies, add the turbo kit (which you've already purchased), reinstall the motor, and tune it?

The parts that are included in the $10K price are:

pistons
rods
bearings
head/main studs
gaskets
(?)clutch

According to my numbers, that should be about $3400 w/o the clutch. If they use the clutchmasters clutch, that will probably add ~600, bringing it to an even $4K in parts. $6K in labor? That's 60 hours @ $100/hr. Considering they need to pull, rebuild, and reinstall the motor, that sounds cheap to me. My understanding (hopefully others can chime in) is that just the motor pull is a ~25 hour job. So x2 (pull/reinstall) == 50 hours, then 10 to do the teardown/buildup? Perhaps they charge less per hour, or my pull/reinstall estimate is high. Don't know. Anyone?

That doesn't include any tune time either... I'd expect a good tune to take at least 4 hours, if not a full 8.

ahm

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

I just got a quote to pull and reinstall the motor. If they go by the book it is a 17.5 hour job. My shop charges me $75 because I drop so much cash there, but assuming the $100/hr you stated to pull and reinstall the motor should at the max be $1750.

I am in the process of pulling my motor and shipping the long block to SGP racing. I am going with the Ultimate short block and they are going to assemble it for me. All my shop has to do is pull and reinstall. The Ultimate short block is $3900 and the assemble is another $400. My shop is going to pull and reinstall for $900. I am looking at a total of $5300 not including the shipping back and forth to SGP which is about $500. Here is what I get with the ultimate short block.

Block oil passages cleaned
Block redecked
Block Bored and Honed using a Torque Plate
Crank balanced
Crank journals polished
New Main and Rod bearings w/ceramic coating
Pauter Rods
ARP Rod Bolts
CP Pistons .020 over(8.5:1 or 11.5:1)
*Ceramic coating on Pistons
*ARP Main Studs

cquence 350 [Z]

I was thinking about doing the same package but also wanted to add cams and springs as well. I also was thinking about keeping my stock block and get charged an extra 1000 just in case something happens.