New Arias Extreme Duty pistons...take a look!
06-05-2005, 09:10 AM
#1
New Arias Extreme Duty pistons...take a look!
Over the past three months, I have been working with Arias on developing an extreme duty piston for the VQ35, that could potentially sustain 1500whp+ worth of abuse, but still be streetable for those shooting for 15-20psi of boost pressure with the current kits on the market.
Designing pistons, much like anything, is all about compromises, and balance. The current Arias piston that we sell comes is made with high silicon AL, which is a terrific material for street driven cars. High silicon AL is much stronger than a casting, but experiences heat expansion that is very similar to OEM cast pistons. What this means to the user, is that you can run much tighter piston to wall clearances, and you have an engine that sounds near stock...even at cold idle. At ZDAYZ, where over 200 Z owners converged on Deal's Gap in western NC, eastern TN, people were amazing that my motor sounded so quiet....literally just like stock. The Arias high silicon forgings are also very strong, and suitable for 15-20psi of boost pressure on the VQ.
However, in my opinion, as you breach the 550whp mark, more strength and durability is needed. Running a car once on a dyno is one thing, but continuous abuse, for instance, while engaging in road racing, or freeway racing (shame on you) can generate an incredible amount of heat and stress inside the combustion chamber.
So I worked with Arias on developing a custom piston design for the VQ35, that will only be available through ForgedInternals.com. This piston design is unique in several ways....and will be stocked by us in 9.0:1 CR, and custom CR availble upon request.
1) We chose 2618 Zero Silicon Aluminum. This material is roughly 25% stronger than high silicon AL, and about 15% stronger than low silicon aluminum. This is the same material used in most 1000whp+ drag cars
2) The ring lands have been redesigned to be nearly twice as thick on the top land, and about 50% thicker on the second land. More protection from heat and the damaging effects of detonation.
3) Tool Steel Wrist pins: Stronger and more durable than regular steel pins. Wrist pin failure hasnt been an issue yet on these motors, but it never hurts to strength every area of the piston
4) Buttons instead of wrist pin locks: Instead of locking the wrist pin in place with a lock (circlip lookiing device), we use buttons. The buttons are machined from the same 2618 zero silicon forgings, and actually are fit between the wrist pin and the cylinder wall. They also act in supporting the lower ring land, and finish the grove for the oil ring. This design strengthens the lower land, and minimizes the changes of wrist pin failure.
Now...we get to the part about compromises that I mentioned earlier.
1) Due to the thermal expansion qualities of zero silicon AL, you must run piston to wall clearances of 4 thousands, rather than 3. So your motor my experience some additional piston slap...mostly when cold. Once warmed, they should be in nearly the same alignment as stock..with minimal noise. Todd will be the first customer to report back on his findings.
2) Because we are strengthening and enlarging the ring lands, we have to make the skirts slightly shorter. This can result in a bit more rocking of the piston in the cylinder.
3) Cost is the final drawback, it costs more to machine and produce this type of piston.
Any comments or suggestions? The pistons will sell on the website for $1050 shipped, which is a bargain, compared to the other high end pistons.
Any questions? Here are some pictures posted below....give me a second to get them all up. THANKS!
Designing pistons, much like anything, is all about compromises, and balance. The current Arias piston that we sell comes is made with high silicon AL, which is a terrific material for street driven cars. High silicon AL is much stronger than a casting, but experiences heat expansion that is very similar to OEM cast pistons. What this means to the user, is that you can run much tighter piston to wall clearances, and you have an engine that sounds near stock...even at cold idle. At ZDAYZ, where over 200 Z owners converged on Deal's Gap in western NC, eastern TN, people were amazing that my motor sounded so quiet....literally just like stock. The Arias high silicon forgings are also very strong, and suitable for 15-20psi of boost pressure on the VQ.
However, in my opinion, as you breach the 550whp mark, more strength and durability is needed. Running a car once on a dyno is one thing, but continuous abuse, for instance, while engaging in road racing, or freeway racing (shame on you) can generate an incredible amount of heat and stress inside the combustion chamber.
So I worked with Arias on developing a custom piston design for the VQ35, that will only be available through ForgedInternals.com. This piston design is unique in several ways....and will be stocked by us in 9.0:1 CR, and custom CR availble upon request.
1) We chose 2618 Zero Silicon Aluminum. This material is roughly 25% stronger than high silicon AL, and about 15% stronger than low silicon aluminum. This is the same material used in most 1000whp+ drag cars
2) The ring lands have been redesigned to be nearly twice as thick on the top land, and about 50% thicker on the second land. More protection from heat and the damaging effects of detonation.
3) Tool Steel Wrist pins: Stronger and more durable than regular steel pins. Wrist pin failure hasnt been an issue yet on these motors, but it never hurts to strength every area of the piston
4) Buttons instead of wrist pin locks: Instead of locking the wrist pin in place with a lock (circlip lookiing device), we use buttons. The buttons are machined from the same 2618 zero silicon forgings, and actually are fit between the wrist pin and the cylinder wall. They also act in supporting the lower ring land, and finish the grove for the oil ring. This design strengthens the lower land, and minimizes the changes of wrist pin failure.
Now...we get to the part about compromises that I mentioned earlier.
1) Due to the thermal expansion qualities of zero silicon AL, you must run piston to wall clearances of 4 thousands, rather than 3. So your motor my experience some additional piston slap...mostly when cold. Once warmed, they should be in nearly the same alignment as stock..with minimal noise. Todd will be the first customer to report back on his findings.
2) Because we are strengthening and enlarging the ring lands, we have to make the skirts slightly shorter. This can result in a bit more rocking of the piston in the cylinder.
3) Cost is the final drawback, it costs more to machine and produce this type of piston.
Any comments or suggestions? The pistons will sell on the website for $1050 shipped, which is a bargain, compared to the other high end pistons.
Any questions? Here are some pictures posted below....give me a second to get them all up. THANKS!
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; 06-05-2005 at 09:17 AM.
06-05-2005, 09:32 AM
#5
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,593
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had these type of pistons in my Honda. No big deal. For the first couple of minutes in the morning your car will sound like chitty chitty bang bang, then it will go back to almost normal.
06-05-2005, 09:34 AM
#6
very nice, but why in the world would anybody ever need these? i could understand for somebody who has a track built drag car, but in a street car, isnt this a little overkill. come on--1500hp?! would you be willing to redo your engine to swap out for these?
but mad props to you once again GQ for setting another bar.
but mad props to you once again GQ for setting another bar.
Trending Topics
06-05-2005, 11:30 AM
#8
Originally Posted by tig488
very nice, but why in the world would anybody ever need these? i could understand for somebody who has a track built drag car, but in a street car, isnt this a little overkill. come on--1500hp?! would you be willing to redo your engine to swap out for these?
but mad props to you once again GQ for setting another bar.
but mad props to you once again GQ for setting another bar.
People are finding that an engine can run perfectly on the dyno....but them tear itself up on the road...if beating it very hard. I guess that is the decision that the customer has to ask themselves. If you intend to rarely engage in very aggressive and continous WOT operation, and primarily intend to stay in the 15psi or so range, then I would suggest the high silicon pistons. If you plan to really beat on the car, and or run 18psi or more, I would suggest the zero silicon variety, with the thicker ring lands. Forged motors are not indestructable....no motor is.
Also keep in mind that as power increases, the demands on the cooling system increase dramatically as well, and some are finding that the stock cooling system is not sufficient. The demise of any motor, is directly related to heat...no question about that. If you can strengthen the cooling capabilities, and use materials and techniques that are more resistent to heat damage, this can only be a good thing.
These pistons are about $250 more than standard Arias pistons, so not a huge increase in cost, for a significant increase in strength.
I appreciate the input.
![cquence 350 [Z]'s Avatar](https://my350z.com/forum/images/avatars/27.jpg)
06-05-2005, 12:15 PM
#10
Originally Posted by cquence 350 [Z]
are these pistons already on your website Sharif?
http://www.forgedinternals.com/store...cat=248&page=1
click on the link above.
06-05-2005, 03:41 PM
#13
Any idea what the weight difference is?
Sharif, I was really interested in going FI. Can I PM you? I have some questions.
06-05-2005, 06:55 PM
#15
Sponsor
builtZmotors
builtZmotors
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 2,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sharif:
The pistons look awesome, I'm excited to get me motor running with these bad boys (should be able to report back on the audible piston slap by thursday of this week (we'll get the motor back together real quick)
Again, you helped me out when I was in a pinch...I owe you more than one!...Thanks for all of your support through my project!
ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!
SHARIF IS THE MAN...
www.forgedinternals.com (buy all of your birthday, anniversary, kwanzaa, and new years presents here!!!)
The pistons look awesome, I'm excited to get me motor running with these bad boys (should be able to report back on the audible piston slap by thursday of this week (we'll get the motor back together real quick)
Again, you helped me out when I was in a pinch...I owe you more than one!...Thanks for all of your support through my project!
ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!
SHARIF IS THE MAN...
www.forgedinternals.com (buy all of your birthday, anniversary, kwanzaa, and new years presents here!!!)
06-05-2005, 08:03 PM
#17
Originally Posted by g356gear
He always seems to sneak it into his product promo pics 
I can never get the angle right, without some manual manipulation of the product in my hands.Todd, glad we could help. It was shear coincidence that the super duty pistons were ready in time. I ordered the initial batch about 4 weeks ago.
06-05-2005, 09:17 PM
#19
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Man in the Sun
Posts: 2,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gq_626
ROFL....believe me its not intentional. I am holding my Nikon D70 with flash in my one right hand, and the product in my left....what's a guy to do? I can never get the angle right, without some manual manipulation of the product in my hands.
.
I can never get the angle right, without some manual manipulation of the product in my hands..
06-06-2005, 01:05 PM
#20
Originally Posted by nis350ztt
Sharif, any chance you can change this to include customer specified material? (it'd save you from having to make a whole other product page)
Good idea, but my software has some limitations...so I cant do a drop down box easy.
Also, if you are refering to the Extreme Duty Pistons, they totally different from the standard Arias piston, so it deserves it's own page.
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; 06-06-2005 at 01:08 PM.