Well, I finished my wiring this past weekend and was able to log a handful of runs today. Let me just say that the Emanage Ultimate's data logging is exceptional. I can now see what my car is doing in fine detail. I am waiting on my Innovate wideband, so I can log A/F and be ready to start fine tuning. Right now my maps are all zeroed out. I have only a TS flash for my mods, actually several flashes, thanks to Brian, who I am sure doesn't want to see my car again.

Some observations.

Timing: My timing seems to be quite steady. I idle at about 13-14 and as soon as I go WOT it advances to about 20 until about 3.5 psi, then it drops quickly down to about 16-17 and stays flat accross the board to redline(7000).
I was surprised to see so little adjustment, quite flat.

Boost: I have an Autometer Ultra-Lite boost/vacuum gauge. When I hit 7000 I read 10 psi on the Autometer. With the Greddy pressure sensor I see only 8.5 max. That seems like a big difference, I guess the Autometer may be innacurate, but with my 9 lb pullies and 7000 RPM 10 psi should be about right. I just bought a SPA dual digital gauge, we'll see what that one says.

Injector Duty Cycle: When my MAF voltage maxes out at 5.06 V around 5000 RPM, my injector duty cycle levels out at about 94%, and stays there. My duration then slowly climbs up to redline, it maxes out at 17.7 ms. I have the RC 440cc injectors with a return fuel system, baseline fuel pressure is about 55 psi.

Rev Limiter: I hit the factory/Technosquare rev limiter on purpose(not reccommended) to log what happens. The injector duty cycle drops to zero, then jumps back to 94%, back to zero, etc. The timing stays level. I am assuming this verifies that we lose only fuel and not ignition.

Does anyone have any info on the correct amount of timing I should see?
What about the injector duty cycle? Is that how they work?
Any other comments?

 

2 weeks ago, I worked with a tuner from Miami helping out on an SRT4 tune, and he said that in his experience, the GReddy boost gauges always read 1.5 lbs less than actual. I had never heard of that, but maybe there is something to it. I'd like to see the readings from your new gauge...

-D

 

Just curious what you dynoed at, I am just guessing as I don't know the exact stock timing but it seems like the reflash retards your timing quite a bit.

 

I had it on the dyno with my 7 lb pullies and the ATI FMU with stock injectors and I put down 342WHP. This was with the limited TS flash. I am now running the 9 lb pullies, return fuel, 440 injectors and TS flash. I put down a whopping 345WHP. I obviously was dissappointed! I feel the tune is way off from my flash. That is why I got the EU, so I can tune it right. I don't know how people are getting a proper tune by sending out their ECU and getting it flashed. Brian at TS flashed mine, at least, 10-15 times! I still think it is off. The dyno A/F showed me extremely rich from 3000-4500, below 10, as the dyno's A/F does not go below this. From 4500-5500 it gets slightly leaner aroun 11.0 then goes rich again to 6500, aftere 6500 it leans to about 12.2 to redline. I do not think he touched my timing during the flashes, he also said that he could not get it to come down at the top end and couldn't figure out why. I live about 45-60 minutes away from TS, I drove down and sat in their small office for hours almost everyday for a week, trying to get this tuned right. After I had gotten the first flash, brian sent me on my way thinking it was good to go. I went to the dyno the next day and the A/F went from way rich to very lean at about 4700 rpm. The dyno guy shut it down because it was skyrocketing, past 14! We did 3 runs and it happened everytime. I then went to get it fixed and a few days later, same thing happened, only this time it went lean at about 5500. This time, I told the operator to push through it and see what happens. The A/F peaked at about 14, and dropped back to 11.0 after 6000. On the next run, it never came back down and stayed around 14, we shut it down at 6500. These were all 4th gear runs. We tried a 3rd gear run, and it was rich all the way across until 6500, then it leaned out a little. I found this very strange, that their would be such a difference between 3rd and 4th gear. I went back to TS, with my dyno sheets in hand and left my car for an entire day. Since Technosquare does not have a dyno, they tune it on the streets. Brian said that he didn't tune in 4th, due to the speeds involved. I have not had it back on the dyno since.

I can say this about the ATI FMU, I had put the 9lb pullies on before my fuel system and flash and it absolutely screamed. I had a thread about it something like "10 psi Rocks!!" My A/F was perfect untill about 6100 where it leaned out, due to running stock injectors. My car right now does not feel like that, yet.

I am going to check for boost leaks, too, just in case I am losing some at higher pressures.

 

Have you incorporated some type of knock sensor input? If so, which input did you use?

 

No knock sensor input. I used the temps for water and intake. My aux inputs are pressure and A/F. I have a meter for my J&S Safeguard that tells me if the unit is sensing knock. Howevere, I have not hooked up the J&S yet, I have to get with John from J&S and see if we can get the EU and the J&S working together.

 

If its not the tune, then it sounds alot like a boost leak to me. Do you have a pressure tester or air comp to use? If you need one, let me know. I live about 20 - 25 minutes from you and you can use mine if you need. Plus I am new to the Z and wouldn't mind seeing a nice fixed up one up close.

 

Yeah that's why I was curious... I too was thinking to use both the water and air temps and trying to decide how I could incorporate a KS signal into the EU without using the 4 inputs you mentioned. I thought of possibly using the analog input, but I'm not sure how well that would work plus you'd have to have a sense of what the voltages you'd see mean in terms of knock.

 

Sounds like you might be better to go back to stock flash on the ECU and tune from there.

 

I was thinking about this today and I think that I have a way to use the temps and the knock sensor. Let's just use the intake temp, for instance. You could tap into the intake temp with wire A, tap into the knock sensor, wire B, then run them to a 3 position switch. The out put of the switch would go to the input of the EU. Then to log intake temp, change the parameters in the software and put the switch to the intake side. For knock, just do the same.

What do you think? I believe that it would work.

 

I have an air compressor, but have never done a leak check before. I had a post asking how to do it a few weeks back, I think I can do it. If you want, we can get together and see if we can get it checked. Shoot me a PM.

 

lol. We seem to be on the same brain wave a bit here.. a couple days ago looking at the manuals and software I too thought of using some type of switch, and yes I think it would work. But I kind of put that idea on the shelf for now because I wanted to see if there was a more elegant solution (ie-having all of them inputted simultaneously without the need to switch), which is why I got thinking about the extra analog input.

I suspect I may end up trying a couple different ways. But if you are making any adjustments via the air temp map then for normal operation you'd want that input always coming through to the EU.

 

It is not hard you just have to make a plug for the intake with a tap for a pressure gauge and a tap to hook up the air source and fill up to 7 psi or so not more and listen for leaks, if you want an air tight system then cover up the exhaust with some tape. This is how it is done with the 300ZX TT not sure if it is the same for a SC.

 

Autometer traditional boost gauges are notorious inaccurate. I would trust the Greddy pressure sensor over the Autometer.

Yes, the datalogging feature is absolutely amazing on the EU. I want hours and hours to play with it..its so much fun!

Very fast sample rates, make it a great tool for tuning, testing, and modding.

 

Well, I just finished my installation of my SPA Design dual digital gauge. I really like it. The SPA shows boost on the top half of the gauge and fuel pressure on the bottom. I made a quick run to get some dinner and was able to hit about 7000 RPM in second gear. The gauge has a recall feature for maximum psi hit. It showed 9.4 PSI @ 60.5PSI of fuel pressure. This was my only run, so far, but it shows almost 1 full psi more than the Greddy sensor. The SPA sensors look to be of good quality. I will hit the freeway on the way home and see if I can get to my 10 psi. I will data log with the EU, also.

I am still looking for info on the correct amount of timing that I should see. I feel that I may have too much pulled. Has anyone logged their timing?

 

With 9 psi you should be running around 20-22 degrees of advance. What are you seeing?

 

My first post details my timing that I saw during some runs. I don't get anywhere near that amount.

 

I think 7Eleven was...I hope....talking about what the stock ECU is spitting out.

IMHO, at 9psi, 20-22psi is much too much on 93 octane fuel. I would shoot for roughly 15-18.....as long as the car isnt pinging. I like to run much less timing in the midrange and towards the trq peak (greatest cylinder pressure and highest likelyhood of knock), and then gradually advance it towards redline.

 

I know there have some scattered posts on what stock timing might be, has anyone gotten what it really is? Since were are retarding and not actually putting the timing.

 

Stock is 27degrees. Brian from TS said that the 8psi reflashes run 22deg at WOT. If he is getting only getting a few more horsepower from 2 extra psi it's due to the excessive timing being pulled.

Badmonkey could you post the dyno sheets? I'm betting you can see where the timing is pulled out and the power stops climbing way before it should.Here is a email Brian sent:

Hi Gary. You can definitely bring the car to us for an in house dyno. With it being as low as 14 degrees, it sounds like Sharif from Forged Internals' situation. He had the same problem and it did happen to be the knock sensor. Being at 14 degrees under WOT is not what our programming does. Checking the program I put into your car, it should only retard around 5-6 degrees of timing from stock. Stock computers tune cars to run around 27 degrees under WOT.

Brian Wong
Technical Director
Phone: (310) 787.0847
Fax: (310) 787.0948