Cooling Mist water injection....
#21
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: SAN DIEGO
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
race gas and water injection
Originally Posted by atlsupdawg#2
I used a homemade version on my Supra when I was boosting the hell out of the stock twins. I was running a 50/50 mix of distilled water & meth and it really reduced detonation and allowed for a little more advance in timing with out using race gas. I do plan to use the system again on the Z when I get around to boosting the car. If you were to couple this system with the use of race gas and a solid tune I don't see why you wouldn't be able to boost pretty high on the stock block.
blend say 95 octane ? Or just a tank full of 100 + octane race gas ?
I wanna daily driver too ya know
#23
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pacific Island = Saipan
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 002-M-P
Thanks a bunch for those pics nitrous 350...
Also, what size tank are you running and where is it located (any pics would be sweet too )
Also, what size tank are you running and where is it located (any pics would be sweet too )
I don't had a water Injection water tank , I'm used stock window washer tank
as you guys know 350Z with F/I mod. The engine room is confined place
so I just used stock window washer
#24
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
let's say you don't have any detonation and everything looks great at 12 psi and you're pushing 500 whp...Aren't you seriously risking for the rods or anything else to break at this point if you're running a stock block? I thought 480 whp is pretty much as high as you can push the stock rods and pistons.
#25
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by nitrous350
Sorry about that I can't take a Pics. of tank
I don't had a water Injection water tank , I'm used stock window washer tank
as you guys know 350Z with F/I mod. The engine room is confined place
so I just used stock window washer
I don't had a water Injection water tank , I'm used stock window washer tank
as you guys know 350Z with F/I mod. The engine room is confined place
so I just used stock window washer
I was actually thinking about running it from the hatch area (both pump and tank would need to be there if I did) and just run the line to the engine. It is a long way, but I can fit a bigger tank and the water would be cooler as it entered the engine.
#26
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mrtomcat
let's say you don't have any detonation and everything looks great at 12 psi and you're pushing 500 whp...Aren't you seriously risking for the rods or anything else to break at this point if you're running a stock block? I thought 480 whp is pretty much as high as you can push the stock rods and pistons.
I think the reason so many people where blowing motors before at the 400-450 rwhp mark wasn't because of power but because of a slight inperfection in the tune, but now people are more experienced and whatnot, so the limits are just getting extended.
#27
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought that the stock rods and piston are only certified to hold up to 480 (or around that). I guess only time will tell we'll see how long the above 500 whp stock blocks will last...
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ATL-What U Know About That???
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JAMBO
Will this combination be as useful or as effective if i just use a higher octane
blend say 95 octane ? Or just a tank full of 100 + octane race gas ?
I wanna daily driver too ya know
blend say 95 octane ? Or just a tank full of 100 + octane race gas ?
I wanna daily driver too ya know
Originally Posted by mrtomcat
I thought that the stock rods and piston are only certified to hold up to 480 (or around that). I guess only time will tell we'll see how long the above 500 whp stock blocks will last...
As far as rods are concerned I think the only time you would really need to swap them out is if you planned on running some ungodly amount of power or you raise the stock rev limiter significantly. Contrary to what many believe rods endure more RPM related stress than they do from raising the HP via F/I. Granted though your engine doesn't per-ignite. Corky Bell's book got into the physics of why this is true. The only rod failure I have seen, other than from pre-ignition, was a guy that ran an 8500 rev limit which essentially just sheared the rod end right off.
#31
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
atlsupdawg, thanks for that info...
Also, what if you were to run a methanol/water mix...is 50/50 best? What kind of methanol should be used (if there are any variants)? How much does it cost and where is the best place to buy it in a large enough quantity?
Also, what if you were to run a methanol/water mix...is 50/50 best? What kind of methanol should be used (if there are any variants)? How much does it cost and where is the best place to buy it in a large enough quantity?
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ATL-What U Know About That???
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 002-M-P
atlsupdawg, thanks for that info...
Also, what if you were to run a methanol/water mix...is 50/50 best? What kind of methanol should be used (if there are any variants)? How much does it cost and where is the best place to buy it in a large enough quantity?
Also, what if you were to run a methanol/water mix...is 50/50 best? What kind of methanol should be used (if there are any variants)? How much does it cost and where is the best place to buy it in a large enough quantity?
Hey no problem man glad I can contribute. I actually got 100% Methyl Alcohol (methanol) from a friend of mine and can't remember for the life of me where he got it. Try contacting some chemical stores in your area, I'm sure they'll point you in the right direction.
As far as mixing, usually 50/50 is good but no more than this of the meth. Some people use lower percentages to use only as an anti-freezing agent but again the more you add the more it'll positively affect your fuels octane level. You don't necessarily have to go with 100% meth. You can also use windshield washer fluid (not windex ) which is basically diluted meth or denatured alcohol from Home Depot or Lowes.
#33
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nor Cal.
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 002-M-P
Thanks, I was thinking of doing this too, but wasn't sure if I would or not.
I was actually thinking about running it from the hatch area (both pump and tank would need to be there if I did) and just run the line to the engine. It is a long way, but I can fit a bigger tank and the water would be cooler as it entered the engine.
I was actually thinking about running it from the hatch area (both pump and tank would need to be there if I did) and just run the line to the engine. It is a long way, but I can fit a bigger tank and the water would be cooler as it entered the engine.
Also cooler water from the holding tank yields measurably " nothing".
The measurable cooling effect is due to the endothermic (sucks up heat) phase change (water to vapor) in the combustion chamber..
Last edited by G3po; 10-10-2005 at 02:08 PM.
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ive used coolingmists setup, let me raise 5 psi over stock and net me a gain of about 45 hp and 50 ft lbs to the rear wheels, it was on my 4 banger but hey it worked.
#35
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by G3po
Also cooler water from the holding tank yields measurably " nothing".
The measurable cooling effect is due to the endothermic (sucks up heat) phase change (water to vapor) in the combustion chamber..
The measurable cooling effect is due to the endothermic (sucks up heat) phase change (water to vapor) in the combustion chamber..
I have decided I am going to be going with the Coolingmist Dual Stage 100psi kit, w/ the clogged nozzle sensors, a check valve for stage one, a solenoid for stage 2, a 2.5 qt pre-tapped tank, and the relay harness. It should come out to be about $375 or so.
I'm not sure on nozzle sized yet, I guess I will discuss that with coolingmist when i call them later this week, unless you guys know anything more about the nozzle sizes to use.
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ATL-What U Know About That???
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
002-M-P,
Don't mean to hijac your thread here bro. Been wondering something and wanted to see if anyone's got any idea.
I know most people locate the injection nozzle(s) close to the throttle body (as did I) on the intake tubing. Do you think it would make a difference if the nozzle(s) were tapped into the intake plenum itself? Seems like you'd have a wider dispersement of the cooling fluid if you sprayed into the manifold and less restriction from the throttle body (if there is a restriction at all).
Don't mean to hijac your thread here bro. Been wondering something and wanted to see if anyone's got any idea.
I know most people locate the injection nozzle(s) close to the throttle body (as did I) on the intake tubing. Do you think it would make a difference if the nozzle(s) were tapped into the intake plenum itself? Seems like you'd have a wider dispersement of the cooling fluid if you sprayed into the manifold and less restriction from the throttle body (if there is a restriction at all).
#37
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by atlsupdawg#2
002-M-P,
Don't mean to hijac your thread here bro. Been wondering something and wanted to see if anyone's got any idea.
I know most people locate the injection nozzle(s) close to the throttle body (as did I) on the intake tubing. Do you think it would make a difference if the nozzle(s) were tapped into the intake plenum itself? Seems like you'd have a wider dispersement of the cooling fluid if you sprayed into the manifold and less restriction from the throttle body (if there is a restriction at all).
Don't mean to hijac your thread here bro. Been wondering something and wanted to see if anyone's got any idea.
I know most people locate the injection nozzle(s) close to the throttle body (as did I) on the intake tubing. Do you think it would make a difference if the nozzle(s) were tapped into the intake plenum itself? Seems like you'd have a wider dispersement of the cooling fluid if you sprayed into the manifold and less restriction from the throttle body (if there is a restriction at all).
I think I read on the coolingmist website that you need it to be as far from the engine as possible but after the MAF. This way the water could truly atomize and do its work before it even got close to the cylinders. I will see if I can find that info though.
#38
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok I found this under the Install section of Coolingmist's website...
Dual Stage....
Single Stage...
Dual Stage....
Depending on your vehicle the installation can be different. The first thing you need to do is decide where to mount them. For a dual stage we recommend that the larger injector be mounted furthest from the engine and the smaller one be mounted close to the engine.
If you have an intercooler you can mount your injector prior to the intercooler or just after.
We recommend to install the injector after the MAF sensor of your car (if you have one). If you have to mount before make sure you have it far away so it can evaporate completely.
You can drill a hole to install the injector or tap the injector.
We recommend that you install the injector AFTER the turbo or supercharger unless you have no other choice
If you have a carburator you may need to make a spacer to install the injector
If you have an intercooler you can mount your injector prior to the intercooler or just after.
We recommend to install the injector after the MAF sensor of your car (if you have one). If you have to mount before make sure you have it far away so it can evaporate completely.
You can drill a hole to install the injector or tap the injector.
We recommend that you install the injector AFTER the turbo or supercharger unless you have no other choice
If you have a carburator you may need to make a spacer to install the injector
For our single stage kits we recommend the furthest spot from the engine, but after the turbo/sc. If you cannot place the injector prior to the turbo/sc make sure its the furthest spot from the entrance to the supercharger/turbo. For a dual stage kit we recommend the small injector be placed at the throttle body (closer to the engine), the larger nozzle be placed in a similar location as our single stage kits (further from engine). If you have a MAF sensor we recommend the injectors to be placed after the sensor.
1) You can tap these (1/8th NPT thread) or you can drill these and install in your intake pipe.
1) You can tap these (1/8th NPT thread) or you can drill these and install in your intake pipe.
#39
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nor Cal.
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 002-M-P
Its cool man, its the same subject anyway...
I think I read on the coolingmist website that you need it to be as far from the engine as possible but after the MAF. This way the water could truly atomize and do its work before it even got close to the cylinders. I will see if I can find that info though.
I think I read on the coolingmist website that you need it to be as far from the engine as possible but after the MAF. This way the water could truly atomize and do its work before it even got close to the cylinders. I will see if I can find that info though.
Same basic advise is also given by Aquamist FYI.
Another good addtion is to use an in cab oil/fuel; psi guage to monitor nozzle pressure. I've use one for about 8 years now and it provides good visiblity to general WI status and potential impending plugged nozzle(s). I use a simple switch to select either fuel psi -oe-water psi to be monitored by a common gauge.
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ATL-What U Know About That???
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
002-M-P,
Thanks for taking the time to post what you found. I guess you really can't argue with the experts but as G3po mentioned in his reply above, most of the benefit of h20/alky injection takes place in the combustion chamber where there's enough thermal heat to actually convert water to steam. The intake charge just doesn't get hot enough to do this. In essence the intake charge is just a carrier for the h20/alky. Plus, the further away you mount your nozzle the more you'd have to contend evaporation.
When I installed my previous system I mounted the nozzle as close to the throttle body as possible. I did have to play around with different nozzle sizes to find the right one. I didn't really want to go through the hassle of rebuilding a motor that's been hydro-locked.
Anyway, I'm just ranting. The nozzle location has been proven to work well where it is and it did for me. I just wanted to question the "norm" that's all .
Thanks for taking the time to post what you found. I guess you really can't argue with the experts but as G3po mentioned in his reply above, most of the benefit of h20/alky injection takes place in the combustion chamber where there's enough thermal heat to actually convert water to steam. The intake charge just doesn't get hot enough to do this. In essence the intake charge is just a carrier for the h20/alky. Plus, the further away you mount your nozzle the more you'd have to contend evaporation.
When I installed my previous system I mounted the nozzle as close to the throttle body as possible. I did have to play around with different nozzle sizes to find the right one. I didn't really want to go through the hassle of rebuilding a motor that's been hydro-locked.
Anyway, I'm just ranting. The nozzle location has been proven to work well where it is and it did for me. I just wanted to question the "norm" that's all .