Alright guys, I just orded my system from Coolingmist this morning, here's what I ordered and what it costs...

Coolingmist Dual Stage 100 psi kit ~250
-First Stage Control: Check Valve
-Second Stage Control: Solenoid Valve
-Boost Sensor Switch
Dual Clogged Nozzle Sensors ~70
Poly Inline Filter ~8
Upgraded 12 ft. Blue Hose ~10
2.5 Qt. Tank w/ bracket and pretapped ~25
Relay Harness ~7

Total Shipped was $382.xx

This should cover everything I need. They said they would supply the two nozzles to flow about 6.0 gallons per hour, as well.

 

snip nvm

 

Well my problem is where to mount it. I still think I'm gonna have a hard time finding a place to mount the 2.5 qt tank since I won't be installing in the cabin. Also if my calculations are correct, to drain the 2.5 qt tank at 6 gph I will have to have the system running for 6 minutes and 15 seconds with both nozzles open. 6 minutes of full boost sounds like alot to me at least and also since it is the dual stage kit the first nozzle (i will have set for 4-5 psi) is smaller than the second stage nozzle (probably have set for 7-8 psi), so unless I am at full boost i will be using signifigantly less water. But I guess, I will just have to wait and see how it acts...if I need a bigger tank, I will sell this one and get another, no big deal.

 

I have a 3 gallon tank mounted in my trunk... looks like a huge fuel cell....

 

A good way to add tank capcity is to
a) plumb the system primarily off the Windshield washer tank
b) plumb a secondary tank (with it's own "low pressure transfer" pump) into the first tank.This tank can be placed in the trunk and can easily be added /removed if cargo room is necessary. The system still functions with just the primary tank and you get the benefit of the low level OEM alarm.

 

With the greddy tt kit and your relocate the washer fluid tank mine never tells me if it is low. I don't really remember if the sensor was reused with it or not, but I know for a fact that it is bone dry right now and I am not getting any alarm.

Also, i coolingmist sells this twin 3/8" barb that is basically a single 3/8" fitting with two barbs on it so you can feed from two seperate sources. I might end up investing in that and tying it into the washer fluid tank.

Also, very off topic, but does anyone know where i can get a replacement lid for the greddy washer fluid tank, cause i lost mine

 

see some pics!

 

FYI, a source of Big **** WI tanks.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...tegoryId=27849

 

Great yet simple idea. Something like this NEVER crossed my mind!!! One question though, would the pump run continuously? Or, would you use a switch mounted at a preset level that would turn the pump on when the primary tank goes below the limit?

 

Whatever you guys do, the best and IMO the only way to go if you truly want to do it right is to get a setup whihc wll allow a constant fuel/water ratio to be applied, above a certain boost level if yo uwish (I will be experimenting with constant water injection when i get the base kit worked out). This will prevent you from running too much water on the low end just to run the correct amount of water on the top end. If you are injecting a constant stream of water above a certain boost threshold, this is exactly what you will be achieving. As you can tell this calls for a fairly sophisticated system. So far as I can tell, there are a few good options, all of which call for an injector pulsewidth - referenced design.

If your EM allows for custom voltage outputs to be configured based on a map that you can pre-program, you can build a 3D map, with injector duration on one axis, boost/fuel pressure on another. This will result in a programmed 0-5 volt output that will directly and proportionally reference the total fuel flow, which if course depends on the above two axes assumign you have the prper boost-referenced fuel pressure reg). The emanage ultimate and i believe the unichip can do this.

The beauty of the Aquamist is that it (the 2c system and up), will accept a PW signal as if the water injector is just another fuel injector...and with the system 2d you don't even need any kind of em to control the box ...it has got one itself.

Remember that you cannot simply tap the MAF voltage (and certainly not the MAP voltage) as it is not in alinear relationship with air and fuel flow (it's highly exponential especially above 4-4.2volts). Hence the need for a more sophisticated approach...

ANyway.. just an FYI.

 

What approch do you suggest Gurgen? A separate controller? Or Just use MAF?

Cheers Amy -

 

The ONLY way to TRULY do it right, is to use one of EU's two subinjector drivers , write a map, and drive an Aquamist 2d system. The latter also included relays to engage a switch (a safety switch) that will allow you to either cut boost (turn off the boost solenoid and return to baseline) or, what i would do, wire that switch to the EU's map switch option to switch to a safe map, in the event that a wate rline blockage is detected. So, when you tune that car for WI and somethign happens (run out of water, water pump failure, water line blockage, etc.....), you can switch to a lower boost and a non-WI map...which you will undoubtedly have.

From thequality and the look of things....nothing beats aquamist...it just doesn't!!!! As always...you get what you pay for. Although I must say, similar or jsut as good a setup (just not as refined) can be achieved with Snow's or cooling mist's setup...as long as it will accept a 0-5v reference....and NOT a simple boost switch that will turn the system on after a certain threshold, and not even Snow's variable pressure controller...which starts at a certain pressure and ends atanother... it's not a matter of pressure...... there is also the issue of rpms. Bottom line...you need to follow a WI curve that is 1:1 proportional to the (inj.duration)x(fuel press)x(constant) value...Constant here includes all the other variable that go into the equation, including the Injectors' cc/min rating, the differential fuel pressure at which they are rated, diff. fuel pressure that you are running at a given instance..., etc.. Again for the purists, not talking about doing the math and figuring out a number, just that you be linear to that curve.

 

Wow Gurgen you have really done alot of research on the higher tech water injection systems, i'm sure that helps alot of people make their decision.

I would have loved to get an Aquamist system, but the price really reflects its quality (About $750-$800 for the 2c system you were talking about). If I could have pushed the money for that I would have, but with as much success as people have had with the Coolingmist and Snow Performance systems, I figured it was worth it.

I guess what I am trying to say is...low-tech water injection off of a certain boost pressure is better than no water injection at all. Plus, in order to not just be dumping all the water in at say 5psi all the way up to 10psi, the dual stage kit allows the less flowing nozzle to open at a first set point, then the high flow nozzle to open closer to full boost.

Oh yeah...and if you guys are looking Aquamist systems, I really recommend these guys here ( http://www.rotorsportsracing.com/per..._injection.htm ). They tuned my RX-7 a few times and know there stuff.

 

Gurgen
I read what you posted and its pretty much over my head and you may have said this . But could you set it up to increase preasure as boost rises , like a return fuel system . Using some type of regulator to increase preasure , say 10 psi per 1psi of boost ?

 

That's not really needed(Rising rate pressure). At the very least I would suggest a progressive controller that has a start and ramp up(full on) boost reference. The system Gurgen is talking about is ideal but to trully tune would take hours upon hours on the dyno adding timing, taking away fuel, adding WI, taking away timing, etc. In my experiences(WRX, Supras and Mustangs) you can't go wrong with a boost referenced progressive controller. The reason I say this is because as most of us know that Boost and IPW is fairly proportional. Now if I could plumb a wideband or egt per cylinder that would be different story.

 

One method would be to activate the aux pump upon low whsher tank level plus a small period of time (aka. long enough) of fill washer tank ~50%.
Or add a high level switch to the washer tank to toggle the pump off.
A low volume pump no more powerful than the washer pump would do.

 

ANyway.. just an FYI.[/QUOTE]

The ramped controller offered by Snowperformance offers a rough approximation between an AM 1s and 2c method and costs between the two at ~$400 for a full system.
One nice aspect of this setup is onset and max boost are easy to adjust ,so less dinking with nozzle flow rate to fine tune. If you want less real max volume you simply set max boost above real boost and the volume slope is reduced automatically.

 

Just to let you everyone know...I orded my W/I kit yesterday morning and Fedex is showing that it will be at my house tommorow (talk about fast). So, if anybody is at the ZDayZ event this weekend and wants to check out the system, I will have it with me (maybe installed...maybe not). So far it seems Coolingmist has excellent customer service (questions answered fast and fast shipping).

 

Yes but this still doesn't allow for anywhere near the constat water ratio that is needed. You can do amazing things if oyu have the right setup. I am planning to experiment with constant water injection..even with daily drving. there is a promise (and I say this because it has been done MANY times) of huge fuel savings. Methanol is by far NOT an essential ingredient. Water is goign to do almost all of the work. So to fill up a tank of gas and a smaller tank of water..on large trips for example..not always..can asve huge amounts of money. Again...this is still part theory..somewhat..but it has been done.

The dual stage kit's purpose is NOT to allow for a more equal water/fuel ratio than you otherwise would get..it's to increase the W/F percentage on the fly. Say for 15psi of boost you want 12% WFR (water-fuel ratio) and at 20% psi you want 17% WFR. If oyu have a single stage kit, without a programmale map ala EU and unichip, you would have to change the nozzles to deliver higher flow. However...as long as you have a SINGLE stage kit with a pig enough water pump AND a EU WI map like I was talking about, you can do this on the fly as well simply by programming the map that wil lsmoothly deliver a certain desired WFR at any time you wish.

I am just trying to think of a setup with far higher verstaility and felixibility, not to mention expansion capabilities. This is one of the reasons that I LOVE the innovate motorsports MTS (modular tuning suite) over the PLX's and the Zeitronix'.

Yes you can...but again this will not achive waht you need. You mentioned that fuel return system, which will help me explain this. Fuel system provides a certain flow capability (represented by Fuel Pressure), but the total fuel FLOW is also dependent on how long the injectors stay open for...injector duty cycle. If the duty cycle is, say, 74%, which is where it is for me at redline at 12psi WOT, then 74% of the fuel system's flow is being delivered to the engine...crudely speaking. The amount of fuel delivered is not jsut a function of the fuel pressure. Thus referencing boost for WI will deliver only a set amount of water, in this case regardless of RPM. With the RPMs rising, injector duty cycles rises to deliver more fuel...since more work is being done at higher rpms than at lower...more combustion events. Hence you need deliver more water, otherwise as the RPMs rise while your boost is staying roughly the same (or maybe even falling off as the case is with the turbos, that is after the spooled up at about 3500-4000rpm to full boost) and you are delivering the same flow of water, you an see how the WFR will be falling off as you reach redline. HTH

Let's agree to disagree on this.

WADR, this is simply not the case. I explained a scenario above for why this is not the case. IPW goes up as RPMs go up, because airflow goes up as rpms go up. So to maintain, say, a roughly constant AFR of 11.5:1, you will need to increase IPW as rpms/airflow go up. Just look at the MAF (which drectly measures MASS, i.e. amount, of air) voltage to illustrate my point (it goes up with RPM at WOT from 1000rpm to redline).

Bottom line...if you are trying to get as close as possible to having a constant WFR without writing new maps, it is FAR FAR better to reference MAF voltage than any kind of variable boost/pressure. Just make sure the resistances are acceptable on the WI controller that you end up using, so as not to fry the stock ecu's or EU's drivers/circuitry.

Also, on the idea thta one method is right jsut because all/most of the tuners are doing this is always inherently faulty. Many tuners do NOT go beyond the accepted principles of the industry, and jst do it 'like it's always been done'. In this case, doing it right does NOT take thta much more work. Some of the conventional methods will work, most are ok, and none of them is truly elegant...until you do it right. I am not saying go Aquamist...i probably won't myself because of the money difference, but if oyu have an emanage ultimate or plan to use it, just be conservative with the WI until someone comes up with a map for it. I will be doing this myself..but realistically (70% chance) not until mid-December. And whatever i develop, you guys are all free to use.

 

I think I am going to go ahead and dub gurgen "my350z water injection guru"