gringott

iTrader: (17)

I have the PE TT kit. I want to add an oil cooler. Like Cheston and others here, with a TT kit on it is a real problem to get air flow through an oil cooler without a compromise of some kind. I have decided to go with a laminar style oil to water cooler, as manufactured by Lominova of Sweden.
http://www.opcon.se/ subStart.asp?ContentID=13&CatID=104
Here in America this oil cooler is available with the Aeroquip brand and it is also avail with the Mocal brand.

I am attempting to get more information about what size water fitting I will need, and if a thermosatic sandwich plate is needed.

According to Laminova, the thermostat is not needed because the water will actually help to heat the oil to operating tempurature when first running the engine. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

Two Aeroquip part numbers are availible, AER-FBM2194, and AER-FBM2196
Both have AN 12 oil inlet and outlets.
The 2194 has a beaded 1.50" water inlet and outlet. It is 16.10 " long.
The 2196 has a JIC -16 water inlet and outlet. It is 15.91" long.

The inlets and the slight length difference is the only difference I can find.

Injected Performance here in Kentucky, as well as several other online parts shops, have the 2196 for around $350 or more (up to $410).

Summit Racing has the 2194 for $257. This is a $100 savings for the different hose ends. (BTW, Summit also lists the 2196 for $310)

My question - due to lack of experience with plumbing sizes, etc.
Which fitting end will work better on the Z? I understand a 1.50" barb fitting, but what is a JIC -16?

Thanks for any help.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

The 350z already has a water/oil heat exchanger. I am not sure if adding another one, even if more efficient, will help much or not. Personally I have never tried one of these.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

I found this information on a Lotus site, it is relevant because it has infomation on the "doughnut cooler" which is the stock Z cooler for oil.

Water to oil cooler (Doughnut Cooler)
This type of cooler is generally less efficient. They look like a thick take off plate but they actually have the oil cooler built into themand require piping to get the coolant to/from the coller. The engine water coolant system must be capable of handling the extra heat this appraoch puts in to it and the Elise system is adequate on the standard car. higher power variants may not be. These coolers are small and but not easy to install in an Elise. Being about 60mm thick, fitting results in the oil filter being close to the standard exhaust manifold. A smaller filter would resolve this problem though. This type of cooler is the cheapest to fit.
Water to oil cooler (Laminar Flow cooler)
These are two concentric tubes with fins between them to transfer heat between the water and oil. These coolers are expensive but result in minial oil pressure drop. They can be simply fitted by replacing a section of coolant return pipe. An advantage of water to oil coolers is that the water brings the oil up to temperature quicker when the car is started from cold.


Some more information that I found out is that the Laminova cooler is being used in many new cars, the Swedish company has signed contract with several new car manufacturers.

If I can get the 2194 to work, it appears it would be a cost effective and space effective alternative. Two mounting locations are possible, one being lenghtwise on the radiator top, the other inside the bumper cover above the bumper beam. Either version will cause some plumbing nightmare for the water lines, but I think it is doable.

I measured the top water return hose, it appears to be approx 1.50" in diameter, if so, the beaded fitting 2194 would work perfectly. Can someone confirm the hose diameter for the upper radiator return hose? Thanks.

theking

iTrader: (3)

This brings up an interesting point. Could part of the heat issues in High HP cars be related to this "Doughnut Cooler".

gringott

iTrader: (17)

I do think that the stock doughnut cooler is fine for a stock car, but it's capacity is greatly exceeded as a heat transfer device by the high temps added to the oil by turbochargers. The Laminova cooler will use the full flow of the water return, which flows over the inner oil plates, a very effecient design. The stock doughnut uses a small line that comes off the water return line, goes thru the doughnut, and then to the water pump where the water is added to the water returning from the radiator. So water that has already been heated by the engine passes thru the doughnut, and then back to the engine, without passing thru the radiator. So at best, any temps taken from the oil will be mixed with cooler water from the radiator, and then heated again by the engine. Doesn't sound very efficient, and as you heat the oil hotter, it could make the cooling system LESS efficient, I would think. The more I know about the stock doughnut, the less I like it.

Thanks for bring up the point, theKing.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

Here are some charts relating to the Laminova design cooler. Sorry, they are hard to read, that is how I found them. Of course, I am not smart enough to understand them.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

yea the stock oil cooler i always thought was just to keep oil and water temps pretty close. I have oil and water temp gauges and once the engine oil warms up, it typically reads about what the water temp reads.

i was saying in another thread somewhere that we should consider removing the stock oil cooler when we put in other ones because it A: contributes to negate the effects of the oil cooler we had, unless your target is to keep the oil temps about the same as your water temps... and it B: having 2 coolers will reduce pressure a little, so it might be worthwhile just to take it out when putting in an aftermarket one... depending again on your target oil temps.

I havent removed my stock one yet, but I should go take a look at that, maybe we could CNC up something to replace it... it would clean up the engine bay a little too since you can take out the 2 coolant hoses that run to it, especially that long annoying one with the pipe that goes around the AC.

Oleg

iTrader: (1)

This is the cooling setup I was looking at:

B&M has a oil cooler available with a thermostat valve
http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/b...il_cooler_kit/

They also have a similar cooler for the auto tranny
http://www.prostreetonline.com/store..._transmission/

I was thinking about cutting out the sides of the front bumper where the reflectors are at and mounting coolers besides these new vents. You can also add some material (any piece of plastic should do) to guide the incoming air onto the cooler.

Does this sound realistic or did I post something stupid?

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Please God do this...I have been looking to make my own oil cooler for a while now since none of the aftermarket ones fit with my intercooler. Actually would you be able to make a removal kit for this AND a sandwhich adapter? Then I just need to find a Setrab core the will work with my intercooler and plumb it all up..

gringott

iTrader: (17)

phunk - I agree about the removal of the stock doughnut, please keep me informed if you do come up with a part to replace it. I agree that it would be, at a minimum, good to remove redundant parts that are either not doing anything or at worse, increasing engine water temps and decreasing pressure.

The stock design is very puzzling to me, I can't see the advantage of having the water lines avoid the radiator on return.

Phunk: what water tempuratures are you seeing? Oil temps? What water and oil temps does a stock VQ have?

Do you know the inside diameter of the radiator return hose (upper)?

Also, do you still carry that fuel fix for the Walbro fuel pump? I have the PE kit, and according to Gurgen, your kit will fix a problem that occurs when the fuel level is low.
Thanks

Patrick Greene

Thanks.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

Not at all. The problem for FI people, or at least the PE kit, is that the windshield washer tank fills the passenger side, and the water expansion tank fills the other, can't mount in the grille because it will heat the intercooler, so something must be relocated in order to mount a tradititional cooler and get air flow through it. Cheston is removing his windshield washer tank, which should provide enough mounting room, however, I don't know how he will get air to flow thru it. He will vent it to the fenderwell, so if he uses an electric fan like the B&M kit, he will be fine.
I don't want to remove anything, and things are so tight in the engine compartment, I wanted something that could be mounted anywhere, and cool the oil even when stopped. The laminova should do it, and when summer comes, I will put in the PE radiator and PE fan controllers, which should really aid in cooling the beast down.

barthelb

Im currently running an Oil cooler from a 300zx on mine. I don't know too much about the setup but i can take any pictures you guys want me to take. Just tell me what you want me to take, maybe that can help.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

I would like to know, if you have an oil temp guage, what were your temp ranges before and after installing the cooler.

Also, where the oil cooler is mounted to get air flow, I think our intercoolers cover the same basic area.

Thanks.

barthelb

Oil temp guage and water temp are my next mod. My installer recommended going with the oil cooler from day one because of the heat issues associated with the SC cars and my driving style so I can't compare. My oil cooler is in my driver side fender well. There is a piece of plastic next to my FMIC that creates a channel for air to flow into it to go through the oil cooler.

I was thinking about some kind of cut out like on the GTR Z tune that would look cool on our stock bumper but haven't given it much thought yet.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

I thought of the same thing, someone did a photochop on the forum, it looked good. However, both of my fenderwells are full, so I have to look for other options, or find a way to relocate either the washer tank or the expansion tank. One look in the engine compartment is discouraging.

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

I'm running an after market front bumper, not the stock one.

my front bumper has two side vents and one main hole.

see?



my oil cooler will go on the passenger side, with an exit vent right behind it.
no need to add a fan (just yet) i'll have to measure the temps afer install. but that's how i plan on placing mine. power steering cooler will go on Driver side and switching to redline PS fluid... i'm iffy on the radiator since with the cooler oil temps.. water temps might go down a little due to the donut cooler. besides.. my water temps arent my worries.. the oil temp is what scares me.

for you.. with the stock front bumper... unless you mount facing down, and cut a hole in your undertray, then i really dont know how you're gonna get forced air thru there.. perhaps the water cooler is the only way for you?

gringott

iTrader: (17)

Cheston: Exactly the thinking process I went through. I thought you had a stock bumper, wasn't thinking. Your airflow in is good, just having to relocate or eliminate the washer tank is a problem. I am thinking of getting the Stillen Series II, which has two additional vents in the fenderwells, but I would still have the washer tank problem.

I think that the best solution for me is to get the laminar water to oil. That will lower my temps through the winter. In the spring I will get the PE radiator to handle increased ambient temps, and a PE fan controller so those stupid fans will stay on after shutdown.

I haven't had any overheating problems, but I do not want high oil temps as they can greatly reduce the life of the engine. In the hotest weather, the oil temp goes too hot for my comfort.

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

i'll definately be following your posts.. i wanna see how that laminar cooler works out for you.. it just sucks that our engine bays are so freakin compact... next up will be a vented undertray... where have u tapped your oil temp sensor to?

theking

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like another project! I might as well have this CNC'd when I make up the twin fuel pump hanger to replace the stock bucket.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

Oil temp sensor is in the block that has the oil feed lines to the turbos. I have a sandwich adapter that I haven't used, I will see if I can use it with the laminar cooler. Placement of the laminar cooler will be a bear also. I first have to find out the inside diameter of the radiator hose, then my thought is, after examining the engine bay, that perhaps I can put it inline instead of the rubber hose / metal pipe combo that is there now. I will have to take some measurements, at best, it will be a tight squeeze. Other locations, such as on top of the radiator, will demand tight bends that could restrict water flow, and a quick look at the location over the bumper bar doesn't reveal a good place to run the hoses. I will continue my investigation. I still like what you are doing, putting a standard cooler in the fenderwell, but I need my windshield washer fluild.