My Turbonetics Lean Dyno Runs
#61
Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
It's not valid because fuel pressure doesn't vary by RPM at WOT. Low fuel pressure problems would be more prevalant in the higher rpms. Not the case in this situation.
Maybe he got a bad flash...
Maybe he got a bad flash...
#62
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From: Des Plaines, IL.
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
I understand now...completely reasonable to keep the new exhaust. By looking at your chart you are not THAT lean and only for a brief time. I'm not saying thats ok but it does seem like something else is amiss. You also mentioned that even with the Unichip Tuan was not able to keep the car in the 11s right? This would basically make the flash irrevelant and NOT the issue. There is no physical way those injectors are maxed out at 8 PSI of air. Its simply not possible. That means one of two things is amiss. the fuel pump is not supplying enough fuel or the fuel pressure regulator is not modified correctly and is causing low fuel pressure. If he ran the Unichip then obvioulsy its not a flash issue. Matter of fact didn't you say with the Unichip the midrange lean condition was fixed but the top end was lean? If so thats even more evidence thats theres a fuel delivery issue SOMEWHERE or it wouldnt be running out of fuel top end.
I have no idea Mia. Maybe Tuan can explain it better.
#63
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
It does vary by boost pressure however since this is not a return system. He could send it back for another flash though.
-Tuan
#64
Originally Posted by zero2prove
I asked TN to make the correct changes, they said I'd have to ship the ECU to technosquare.
-Tuan
-Tuan
#65
Mia,
I believe the TN injectors are either 380cc or 420cc injectors. At 8 psi those injectors probably flow more like 350's since you won't have 60psi of fuel pressure to make up for the boost in the manifold. I'm thinking FP might be below 50psi, I'm not sure since I didn't log his fuel pressure. So indeed those injectors can be maxed out without a 1:1 rise in FP.
The unichip did work in the midrange where he was lean but than would lean out again by redline - I think the injectors were fully open the whole time after 4500 rpms.
-Tuan
I believe the TN injectors are either 380cc or 420cc injectors. At 8 psi those injectors probably flow more like 350's since you won't have 60psi of fuel pressure to make up for the boost in the manifold. I'm thinking FP might be below 50psi, I'm not sure since I didn't log his fuel pressure. So indeed those injectors can be maxed out without a 1:1 rise in FP.
The unichip did work in the midrange where he was lean but than would lean out again by redline - I think the injectors were fully open the whole time after 4500 rpms.
-Tuan
Last edited by zero2prove; 12-01-2005 at 03:55 PM.
#66
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From: Des Plaines, IL.
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Hmm interesting. So do you still not agree that checking the fuel pressure is valid? If thats the issue then a new flash is not needed. Especially considering over 20 kits are on this board and TWO are running lean.
Mia, I asked Tuan about that and he said that he watched his installer do the modification right in front of him.
#67
Originally Posted by zero2prove
Mia,
I believe the TN injectors are either 380cc or 420cc injectors. At 8 psi those injectors probably flow more like 350's since you won't have 60psi of fuel pressure to make up for the boost in the manifold. I'm thinking FP might be below 50psi, I'm not sure since I didn't log his fuel pressure. So indeed those injectors can be maxed out without a 1:1 rise in FP.
The unichip did work in the midrange where he was lean but than would lean out again by redline - I think the injectors were fully open the whole time after 4500 rpms.
-Tuan
I believe the TN injectors are either 380cc or 420cc injectors. At 8 psi those injectors probably flow more like 350's since you won't have 60psi of fuel pressure to make up for the boost in the manifold. I'm thinking FP might be below 50psi, I'm not sure since I didn't log his fuel pressure. So indeed those injectors can be maxed out without a 1:1 rise in FP.
The unichip did work in the midrange where he was lean but than would lean out again by redline - I think the injectors were fully open the whole time after 4500 rpms.
-Tuan
Oh and BTW Turbonetics tested my car at 10.5 PSI and they didnt max out till past 5500.
#69
Originally Posted by zero2prove
Mia,
I believe the TN injectors are either 380cc or 420cc injectors. At 8 psi those injectors probably flow more like 350's since you won't have 60psi of fuel pressure to make up for the boost in the manifold. I'm thinking FP might be below 50psi, I'm not sure since I didn't log his fuel pressure. So indeed those injectors can be maxed out without a 1:1 rise in FP.
The unichip did work in the midrange where he was lean but than would lean out again by redline - I think the injectors were fully open the whole time after 4500 rpms.
-Tuan
I believe the TN injectors are either 380cc or 420cc injectors. At 8 psi those injectors probably flow more like 350's since you won't have 60psi of fuel pressure to make up for the boost in the manifold. I'm thinking FP might be below 50psi, I'm not sure since I didn't log his fuel pressure. So indeed those injectors can be maxed out without a 1:1 rise in FP.
The unichip did work in the midrange where he was lean but than would lean out again by redline - I think the injectors were fully open the whole time after 4500 rpms.
-Tuan
#70
So basically to further clarify Denso rates these injectors at 380cc at 39 PSI of fuel pressure which is WELL BELOW the 53 PSI base pressre Turbonetics sets and still VERY far below the 47-48 PSI I see DAILY under a full 8 PSI of boost. So unless the fuel pressure is below 39 PSI these injectors are in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM maxed out. The more likely scenario is that the car is running lower fuel pressure then it should and between 3000-4200 when the flash is running less pulse width the fuel pressure is not high enough to achieve the proper AFR. Later in the power band when the flash kicks up the pulsewidth its enough to keep it in the high 11s which is still AT LEAST 5-9 points higher then EVERY OTHER available graph. Furthermore if the Unichip was able to tune out the lean spot in the midrange but got lean in the top end then it HAS to be a fuel starvation issue. Given the data I have provided about these injectors the only logical answer is that the fuel pressure is too low or the fuel pump is not delivering adequate flow. Assuming that the Walbro 255 lph pump was included with this kit as long as it is installed right that is also not likely.
#71
Mia,
Please explain why the AFR at 2000 is 11.7:1 and the AFR at 6000 RPM's is 11.3:1. Who would tune at 0-1psi of boost at 2000 RPM to run 11.7:1 AFR? If there is something wrong with the FP it would carry through out the RPM band in boost, expecially by redline at 8psi, not just between 4000-5000.
Irregardless, I'll have an adapter fitting coming in soon to test FP to see what I can find out for you.
Cheers,
Tuan
Please explain why the AFR at 2000 is 11.7:1 and the AFR at 6000 RPM's is 11.3:1. Who would tune at 0-1psi of boost at 2000 RPM to run 11.7:1 AFR? If there is something wrong with the FP it would carry through out the RPM band in boost, expecially by redline at 8psi, not just between 4000-5000.
Irregardless, I'll have an adapter fitting coming in soon to test FP to see what I can find out for you.
Cheers,
Tuan
#73
Originally Posted by taurran
Originally Posted by Alberto
I go off of personal experience and proof, do you? Or are you just going off what people say? I dyno 240whp SAE corrected on a dynojet. Two local Z's dyno'd 258 and 261 bone stock on a dynapack SAE corrected-think what you want, I dont want to jack this thread anymore
But honestly I do think there is a difference even beyond the type of dyno reading. Like rollers from one shop can read lower or higher than another (not sure why, but has happened), seen it and heard about it. Many factors may or do play a roll, but anyway I have the graphs in my last thread in this section that shows my las run with a DynoPack, and my baseline with a DynoDynamics (which some believe or have seen lower results than others)... And I did around 20 something WHP more on the DynoDynamics... So go figure I guess.
#74
Originally Posted by zero2prove
Mia,
Please explain why the AFR at 2000 is 11.7:1 and the AFR at 6000 RPM's is 11.3:1. Who would tune at 0-1psi of boost at 2000 RPM to run 11.7:1 AFR? If there is something wrong with the FP it would carry through out the RPM band in boost, expecially by redline at 8psi, not just between 4000-5000.
Irregardless, I'll have an adapter fitting coming in soon to test FP to see what I can find out for you.
Cheers,
Tuan
Please explain why the AFR at 2000 is 11.7:1 and the AFR at 6000 RPM's is 11.3:1. Who would tune at 0-1psi of boost at 2000 RPM to run 11.7:1 AFR? If there is something wrong with the FP it would carry through out the RPM band in boost, expecially by redline at 8psi, not just between 4000-5000.
Irregardless, I'll have an adapter fitting coming in soon to test FP to see what I can find out for you.
Cheers,
Tuan
EDIT: And FYI it IS Carrying throughout the RPM band. His AFR is a bit leaner across the board then most I see.
Last edited by MIAPLAYA; 12-02-2005 at 07:42 AM.
#75
Air Meter on Z33 will max out b4 those injectors =) btw its PRETTY DAMN CLOSE to being already
It is time to find an alternative airmeter and tune for it anyway or swap to map. when is TN going to do this along with ts
It is time to find an alternative airmeter and tune for it anyway or swap to map. when is TN going to do this along with ts
Last edited by nissansource; 12-02-2005 at 08:40 AM.
#76
Originally Posted by nissansource
Air Meter on Z33 will max out b4 those injectors =) btw its PRETTY DAMN CLOSE to being already
It is time to find an alternative airmeter and tune for it anyway or swap to map. when is TN going to do this along with ts
It is time to find an alternative airmeter and tune for it anyway or swap to map. when is TN going to do this along with ts
#79
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From: Des Plaines, IL.
Called GRD today and was told my UTEC was ordered with the Wideband O2 that they sell. They also got their beta UTEC today. Tuan said he is going to install it on his APS TT 350z and run it for a few days and make sure everything is good before he installs it on my car. I can't wait. Wish me luck.
#80
I scanned through most of this thread, The most important this is to first get your own wideband and watch it in the car. I have seen many cases of dyno based wideband sensors that are faulty, or not properly maintained...or the readings are too delayed. I am not suggesting that GRD;s wideband is faulty....but I am suggesting the a wideband guage is manditory equipment for anyone going FI.
Second, your car is lean for a brief moment..right at 4000rpm..and even then, not terribly lean given the conservative timing that the ECU flash puts into place.
Lastly, nobody should expect perferction out of a reflash. Each car is going to respond a little different...some lean...some rich. I think you are doing the right thing, in install a UTEC, or an eManage Ulitmate, along with a return fuel system and retune. You will be really happy with the safe results it will generate. And nearly 400whp already is nothing to be unhappy with.
I wish you the best of luck, and if you need any assistance, dont hesitate.
Second, your car is lean for a brief moment..right at 4000rpm..and even then, not terribly lean given the conservative timing that the ECU flash puts into place.
Lastly, nobody should expect perferction out of a reflash. Each car is going to respond a little different...some lean...some rich. I think you are doing the right thing, in install a UTEC, or an eManage Ulitmate, along with a return fuel system and retune. You will be really happy with the safe results it will generate. And nearly 400whp already is nothing to be unhappy with.
I wish you the best of luck, and if you need any assistance, dont hesitate.