Here's my top 3 for the events...

March 26 - Lapping Days HPDE at Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch

March 04/05 - Redline Track Events Time Attack @ Cal Speedway

February 04/05 - Racer Factory HPDE @ Buttonwillow

 

I wanted to comment on this as I do have "good" personal experience with what you are talking about here. I would agree with the idea of needing better equipment in order to handle a track environment at the fullest capacity but I don't want anyone to think you can't "track your car" without upgrading it.

You can take any car, bone stock, to the track, and you are going to be able to drive it to it's capacity BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

If you have certan goals in mind, or you want to "keep up with the big dogs (in your category)" then yes you are going to have to improve your car and more importantly YOUR DRIVING skills in order to do so.

Driving at the track is no different than driving on the street/highway when wear-and-tear is considered.

If you drive your car like a bat outta hell, power into every turn, and power out of every turn, and take your speed to 100% of what your car has to offer than you are going to experiencing a greater affect of wear and tear and of course invite "failure" of any component that is participating in this.

This is why there are "run groups" ranging from beginner, intermediate, and advanced. There are variations of this groups, and sometimes when the # of cars permits, and there is a "reasonable" comfort level amongst the drivers, they will merge run groups, and sometimes allow "everyone" on at the same time.

There are expectations of reasonableness of their abilities from each driver, to drive in the correct group.

The group is not decided by "car" it's decided my "experience" and you will find each car "type" in each run group because of this.

You can have the best driver, in the "worst" car in the entire day, and they can run circles around an intermediate driver in the "best" car.

We have a saying "It's the driver, not the car"

Now back to the wear-and-tear concern, if you are a beginner, then you drive with that group until you have the experience you need to go to the next group. That can happen the same day, but not usually, it would depend on your street/highway experience.

You can drive your car as hard as you want, and you can factor in the the wear-and-tear of that as you go.

My personal experience is this:

I have my 03 Track Edition with no mods, and minimal NA mods, out on streets and big willow. I drove "well" and I drove from moderate to hard and I was very pleased with my brembos & rays & Kumhos..... My times then ranged from 2:00-2:10 fairly consistently and I was pleased with the wear and tear affect.

I had my car out on track in less than 6 months of ownership, and it took me that long because I had to get used to driving a small, responsive, rear wheel drive car again.

I did not have severe fade, I did not go through pads or rotors in 6-7 laps, I actually made 2-3 DAYS and that is 2 hours of track time per days before I had any "issues" and they were minor.

I did not experience any failures, and I did not experience any rapid consumption of any components.

This is "typical" but not "absolute" because it all has to do with how you drive.

I have seen failures, and I have seen brakes and tires go at the rate I am responding to, but I don't believe that is frequently the case for easy to moderate driving.

Now with my current setup which now includes Stop Tech Rotors, Steel Brake Lines, Pagid Pads (front), I got my time down to 1:42, and that was "under driving" due to the new setup, and I did experience more wear and tear, but still not in 6-7 laps, and I drove hard.

My guess I may have been able to take another 3-4 seconds off my time if I drove "better" but not necessarily harder.

My experience has been that you should be able to have a set of tires last 4-5 full track days (2 hours consolidated track time each day), driving "easy" and perhaps 3-4 Days moderate, and 1-2 days "hard".

I believe 2 hours track time is about 5K miles worth of wear and tear on brakes with easy driving, 10K for moderate, and it is easy to make that 20K if you are power braking/accelerating for every turn.

This is not necessary to have a great time on the track.

In any group you run in, there are rules, and the first and foremost rule is to be safe and courteous.

This is NOT wheel-to-wheel nascar racing.

There is no money, or tropheys, or Hot Chicks (or guys) running over to meet you when you "win" because..... there is no winning, it's just about having a great time.

You can join a "timed event" where your "time" is measured, and you can compare against other drivers, but more importantly you want to compare yourself.

There is no passing in turns typically permitted other than the advanced group, and this is one of the more dangerous manuevers to make.

There is a "wave by" for passing on straights, in order to avoid any sharing of the same space at the same time issues.

Cars are going to get closer to your rear than they should, and you have to be able to handle that, but people without experience, should not be riding your tail.

if they are, that means at your next opportunity, you want to wave them by.

This can be somewhat hurtful to the pride, but it's "not a problem" to do that.

In summary, wear and tear must be considered, but with easy driving, it's not really an issue. If you want to "perform" then you will want to get the best advice you can before going out on the track, but I assure you NOW you can take your car as-is and give it ago and the odds are nothing "terrible" is going to happen.

(we can talk about going "off track" and "accidents" another time)

 

Alpine.
I agree with MOST of what you just said but damn man, and I'm not hating or anything but maybe a couple less sentences. Are you a writer or something?

That said, I drive my car to it's absolute limits when on the track. I have never been "black flagged" for anything innapropriate but I as well as just about everyone else there, am/are there to RACE ... PERIOD. To test my car against the "Big Boys", Ferrari's, Vipers, Z06's etc... Without my equipment I have NO CHANCE.

However don't confuse what I'm saying. YOU CAN HAVE A KICK A$$ TIME without upgrades at all. In fact that's how I and probably most people started. I don't want to scare anyone off. It's a GREAT time, no matter what run group your in!!!!!!

 

vision619,

Thanks for your comments, and again "it's all good".

No I'm not a writer, but I'm one of those guys that figures if you are going to do something, mine as well do it right.

The good news is that when you come across a long post from me or anyone, you don't have to read it.

Those that are looking for "information" will or won't.

(see this one was short, so miracles do happen!)

 

And a lot less colofull too...

 

DaveO,

We are down for that for sure. Ed (Eagle) has been in contact recently. At the next track event, we plan on having Ed's G35 and 350NV - Z cars finished and running strong. They will no doubt be outstanding with consistent results.

As for a track day, please PM me if we can help in any way or if you want to get together and drive one of our VRT cars. I have already emailed Alpine about some possible dates.

Warmly

Michael
VRT

www.ViolentRacing.com

 

I am truely surprised you read that entire post Mike. That is a very well thought out and informative post Alpine, Thanks. I look forward to being there to watch this event at whatever track is ultimately decided upon. It would be nice to se more Z's & G's out at the track.

 

+1

 

I forget what "+1" is...

I know... I know... I'm an idiot....

 

Means I agree with the post above.

Alpine, I hope you don't think I was flaming you. As you can see from others posts I'm a little ADD so I thought I'd just say that. LOL I didn't mean any offense to you whatsoever. Just wanted to clear that up...

 

any dyno numbers yet Mike? come on already.....

 

I know, I know. I'm waiting on Mark & Jim.

 

+1

Yeah D..k

What are you waiting for?

M

 

Naw, I new it wasn't bad.... I just wasn't positive what it meant....

thanks..

 

so mike when do we get an update



...........this thread went ballistic

 

Thanks Alpine for the help on the other thread. Sometimes people get all worked up about topics and just can't help but pick apart any and every word and take them out of context.

M

 

My pleasure Michael, but you know what, all of that was worth every second/word of it as it appears as if that thread got closed due to my last post!

That was an eye/brainsore for everyone on this board. and I don't want to bring that crap in here, but he made no sense whatsoever even after he clarified himself, so I'm just glad it's done with.

Did you get my e-mail?

 

No problem...

M

 

Dyno numbers yet??

 

Everyone watching this thread and new comers alike.
Everyone wants Dyno Numbers.... I know we are all anxious to see them.

More importantly, they know we want them!

Making posts "asking for dyno numbers" when we are all waiting for them is taking up space and time from the thread.

I'm certain I speak for Mike and VRT when I say:

"As soon as we have Dyno Numbers they will be here"