CESAROTORRES

iTrader: (27)

Got it THX bro!
Cesar

JoneZZZ

iTrader: (1)

With all due respect....raising the revlimiter will allow the AT time to shift when the operator does not load the TC........I still do not think it addresses the issue of "flare" that is taking place when the operator does not load the TC......and shift accordingly.

Let me summarize........I believe if I load my TC and mash the pedal, my car will still blow through redline......

Because I recognize HOW the 5AT wants to operate, after I load the TC, I am telling the system to shift on de-load.......because I am above the stock torque and out of the pre-programmed shift maps, I must de-load to shift.

GMADD

Yes...but only recently, even before the raise, the tranny never gave me any problems.

Tasso-

BLN350Z

Please enlighten me on this so called "flare" and what is meant by "Loading" the Torque Converter.........

Hell, maybe I been shifting my 5AT incorrectly all this time!


I have NOT raised my rev limiter although I would like to, but on the other hand my Tranny seems to be working perfectly.

JoneZZZ

iTrader: (1)

Loading your torque converter means to drive and shift as close to the TC stall speed as possible....inducing immediate locked shifts.....otherwise the shift mapping will default to an economy shift pattern....which occurs at lower than stall speed, and are SLOW to engage.....

when in boost ,and aggressively driving while in an economy shift map area, your engine will continue to produce revs for this longer time duration.....causing unnecessary wear and tear.


The rev increase while tranny is un-engaged is flare........

BLN350Z

OK so I am driving it correctly, just didn't know the terminology

More Power

I now have a super upgraded A5T for my 350Z. Upgraded all the way throughout the tranny. For instance 3 clutches in the torque converter instead of 2. Called a triple disc. Each clutch has much more clamping power than stock. Made from kevlar and supposed to stand the heat much better as well. My input billet shaft tested up to 1200 hp to the wheels and remainded solid as a rock. Only problem is, the tranny upgrade took so long, the winter snow has set in and I probably won't go to Chicago for the twin turbo install till the March/April thaw. So I won't know how the tranny holds up under TT power or not till I try. My tranny is supposed to handle up to 600 lb. ft. of torque to the wheels. We will see.

The only reason I'm posting before testing with the TT power is to give some guys a glimmer of hope. Can't say anything till I apply the TT power and see. Man the tranny sure performs soooooooo much better right now with just the stock power. Comes off the line like a whole different car. But till I apply the TT power and evaluate, we are just pi$$ing into the wind, ha. Keep your fingers crossed, hell it may work out. It could happen, ha. Merry Christmas!

Neat thing is so far, the upgraded tranny shifts just as smoothly for everday driving as stock - even with all that extra clamping power. Which is encouraging. Bad news is all that took 3.5 months of development and got me way behind in my schedule to get the TT power before getting snowed in in MD. The guy that built my tranny has built auto trannys for a 7.92 sec for the Qtr., 1200 hp turbo eclipse, nitrous oxide 350Zs, and runs a big block v-8 10 sec. domestic himself. So he knows how to handle torque. He is also a mechanical engineer so I have a lot of reasons to be optimistic. I'll let you guys know if it works out. Consultant who helped him with the computer/tranny interface, which has to be mollified every step of the way, has a double masters degree. A masters degree in theoretical electronics and a masters degree in electrical engineering. At least I feel like I have some heavy duty people in the project.

More Power

By the way, this setup is supposed to shift right at redline with the TT power without banging off the rev. limiter in the full auto mode. Now he may have to adjust the auto tranny some more after the TTs are installed and we can tell more. Tranny guy confiident this can be done, but it ain't done till it's done.

God I just love this tranny so far, ran more than .3 sec. faster in the qtr. without changing pure stock power. I figure one of those tenths of a second or a little more was due to cooler temps in early Nov. when I ran it thru the qtr.. But hell, it never felt like this last winter in the cool temps either. When this sucker locks up, and that right quick, ha, things happen real quick. Feels so damn good!

I really thought it was better not to post about this at all till I could evaluate with the big power, but maybe some guys will be glad that an attempt is underway. And I'm just sitting here twittling my thumbs wishing I had the turbo power already installed, so I got nothing better to do.

I can tell you one thing. Even on an unseasonably warm day, when traction is good, I can sit at the line, no power braking needed, put the petal to the metal, and I come off the line fish tailing just like I love. Course my stall speed is higher so that is to be expected and all. Still feels good, anyway! I have to let off and let it hook and then apply more power. Before without power braking I might get a little brief squeal from the tires, but no real traction problemos. Yeah, some serious additional tire capability is in my future. But I just love sitting at a stop light at idle, pushing the accelerator three qtrs. down, without ANY power braking whatsoever, and breaking loose without even trying. That is seriously better than stock.

Today was unseasonably warm in MD. I was cruising along at 45 mph, in a straight line, on dry pavement, put the petal to the metal and the SOB broke loose and spun both tires, he he. I love it! That just did not happen with the stock auto tranny. And it did not do that by a harsh "bang" into gear either. It was smoother and slicker than owl $hit. Just a much quicker down shift than stock, smoooooooth application of power, both tires break loose, and a bit of gratifying, gratuitous fish tailing. Easily controllable. I have done a LOT of drag racing so I know how she oughta feel and she do so far! How it holds up to the TT power, only time will tell...But, right now, I'm tryin' to wipe this $hit eatin' grin offa my face without success, he he. I am not power braking at all cause that just totally overwhelms the tires. I like dealing with traction problems! But that is a different issue for a different day. Right now I'm just having fun! Let's hope for the best. Later.

More Power

Hey, in the above post where the tires brokle loose while criuising at 45 mph in a straight line on warm dry pavement with the tires already hooked... I just eased back on the power a tad, it hooked and just accelerated forward with more authority than it ever did with the stock auto tranny. Too early to say anything about how it handles TT power, but the early, baseline evaluation is so far so good. I am very very optimistic that these auto tranny problems are going to be a thing of the past very soon. At the same time, and I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings considering the other posts in this thread, but I have reasons to believe that our A5T will not hold up long term with big TT power on the stock unit with just a VB upgrade. Tranny might hold up 6 months or so but not long term. Not if you drive aggressively as I do with qtr. mile racing type performance demands on the unit. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. JMO. Time will tell.

CESAROTORRES

iTrader: (27)

Hello MorePower!

check this, it is about the Stillen VB and the SGP VB. You should coment on your VB project click below.

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....6&goto=newpost

Merry Christmas
Cesar

More Power

Hi Cesar!

Well I was going to write all this up because several people have asked me to. So I might just as well break down and do it now. My A5T tranny development work took 3 and one half months. NOT a quick fix! So for what it is worth, here are my thoughts and evaluations so far. As I said, I won’t really know anything till I test my upgraded A5T with the APS twin turbos. This is where I am at the moment.

I really don't know how good or not so good the Stillen and SGP are since I have not tried them. I have heard mostly good things about SGP and that is all I know. But one of the posters on the other thread you referred me to said, "Over the phone tonight Ted had said that the SGP unit will make the shifts very harsh and not very drivable for normal use. Is this true?" All I can tell you is that, for me, the deal with the valve body is I want the shifts to be faster and firmer, but still very very smooth. The opposite of the "harsh and not drivable for normal use" set up. Harsh shifts are for kids wanting to impress people with burning rubber and such. Long term, harsh shifts are NOT good for your power train, IMO. That is one of the things that took so long on my tranny work. Gosh he pulled the VB and modified and retested on the car, etc, etc., etc., so and so forth… ad nauseam! ha. I thought it would never end ha. He called me up at one point, and told me that he was not holding my car hostage, ha! My 350Z is a daily driver. I am very aware of fully built racing trannys that are GREAT for the drag strip, but not for the street. I, for one, am NOT turning my sports car into a dragster. I want a sports car with tranny that handles just as smoothly on the street, the tranny shifts better just more aggressively for curves and for all around performance. I want a sports car first and foremost that will ALSO run a quick quarter mile. I have not tested the Stillen and the SGP so I am not knocking anyone else's work. The only thing I KNOW is that my tranny now shifts just like I hoped it would, but I was almost afraid to get my hopes up that it would shift that good. Now that took a LOT of time and testing, whew! That is why it took 3.5 months and I am not sitting here with the APS TTs on my car now. I could have gotten the car back one month or more quicker if I wanted a harsh banging shift. I had rather bite the bullet, take the necessary time, and do it right. My tranny guy and I are in perfect agreement and feel very strongly about this approach. He has over 200 pages of notes he took as he documented this process. We were not looking for a quick fix or a superlative auto tranny for for 350Z forced induction. The goal was always a perfect auto tranny for FI. Right now, hell, it does feel perfect, but I gotta test it with the TTs before I can make any claims. I am just documenting here the approach we are taking and where we are. As I said, until it is done under TT power, it is not done.

But to me it is about an integrated approach. He went all the way through my tranny and upgraded everything that needed strengthening. Not just a VB and firmer shift and call it a day. All this took 3 and one half months after he was already very experienced in building 350Z auto trannys. He just took mine farther. He says this is as far as he can take it.

He addressed all 3 of the main areas of weakness that he identified in the 350Z A5T for FI along with a plethora of little things. The main areas of weakness, now mucho stronger are:

Area 1. The clutches. As I said there are now 3 clutches in the torque converter instead of 2 - called a "triple" disc. Each clutch has far more clamping power than stock. The clutches there now are made from kevlar and supposed to stand the heat much better. He directly increases clutch capacity. More clutch plates. He flew across several states to take personal oversight of the clutch development when the company building the clutches did not send him, after 3 tries!, ha, what they had promised. He is a former U. S. Marine and just that kind of guy. Ha.

Area 2 IDed as a weakness is the input billet shaft. That is now vasco steel rather than stock mild steel. This billet shaft has been tested and has held up well long term at 1200 hp to the wheels in other cars. That is good enough for me.

Area 3 IDed as a weakness: He uses roller bearings instead of the stock plastic washers which is part of the balancing and blue printing process.

Of course he added a good transmission cooler.

Then the VB - He knows our 350Z tranny through and through and he is confident that NOBODY can do the VB like he can. He is a former U.S. Marine from ’91 Desert storm. He strikes me as guy who is tough as nails and will just keep coming till the job is done. He strikes me as a guy who backs up what he says all the way. I have former Marines in my family, I went through basic training under a Marine corp DI, and I work with a former Marine at work turned computer programmer. These guys seem to back up WTF they say and have a quiet confidence based on what they can and do do rather than just talk. If I had to go to war, these are the type of guys I would want to go to war with. Racing is a type of war, ha. When you think about it. Now all that is just my subjective opinion or my bias, you be the judge. He is very confident in his abilities, meticulous to detail, yet he is affable, a great guy to talk to, and as excited about racing auto trannys as a little kid at Christmas time. This was a long hard, often frustrating process and I am more impressed with his work now than ever. After what we have gone through, I consider him a friend. He has a degree in mechanical engineering and you never lose track of the fact you are talking to an engineer when you are talking to him. He builds 7, 8, and 9 second for the qtr. auto trannys all the time for both domestic and imports. His own car is a 10 second big block V8 so I am dealing with a guy who races himself, not just someone who talks about racing. His friend that he brought in to help with the computer interface part has a double master's degree in theoretical electronics and electrical engineering. These are the kind of people I want to have working on my project and my car. I am not taking anything away from Stillen, SGP, or anybody else, and I am not trying to sell anybody tranny work. I am just documenting my thought process, my evaluation of the people working on my tranny, and our approach. He does not even need the business. He has more serious racers lined up for work than he knows what to do with. He operates to a great extent on personal referrals from other customers. He does not even want his name or company posted on the internet. He has told me that after the kit comes out, send him only serious racers, with a good deal of maturity, who are very serious about upgrading their Z cars. I am not getting any monetary compensation when the kit comes out nor do I want any. I had really seriously contemplated never posting about this at all as I don’t want to get into all that arguing about which kit is better. I don’t really care. I like what I have and I don’t really care if anybody else does or not. To me the tranny is just about building a strong foundation before the turbos go on. My passion is the APS twin turbos and boost. But the tranny is one of the keys for sure.


Here are some of the other things he told me about the process of upgrading my A5T: Transmission reseal package. Valve body gaskets, bonded 3200 stall HD converter. Direct clutch friction module. Input clutch module. Modified front brake band. Friction modified transmission fluid. Recondition transmission for hi performance usage. Including strengthening apply hubs by heat treating splines and T.I.G. Welding over plasma and fuse welds where needed, increasing clutch capacity and treating steel plates with Kolene to prevent warping. Valve body modifications to insure proper clamping force to 600 lb ft of torque to the wheels. Machining of center support and installation of roller bearings to replace plastic thrust washers, and blueprinting during assembly.

This is the kind of thorough process that I think is needed for APS TT power in my 350Z. Others may disagree and I’m sure other shops do great work as well.

JoneZZZ

iTrader: (1)

Nice write-up........

Fairlady_z33

iTrader: (56)

Guys keep up posted im very intrested and many other people are hopefully as More Power said this 5AT problems will be a thing of the past (cross you fingers)

CESAROTORRES

iTrader: (27)

Know we are TALKING SENSE!!!!!!!!

KEEP ME UPDATED!
Cesar
APS TT

1G'

Yeah Cesar i raised it to 7100. i do hit the rev every once in a while but if i want to race or just get in it i always shift to manual mode

roncfpz

iTrader: (15)

More Power,

Excellent write up and thanks for informing us on the developments for your 5AT. I'm very anxious (as I know you are) to hear how it responds under TT power. The 5AT has a bad rep for not handling TT power but hell the 6MT guys are doing some serious upgrading of their trannys also to handle the extra power. Neither tranny was designed to handle 400+ whp from the factory w/o some sort of upgrades to properly transfer the power/torque to the wheels. Lastly, very glad to see the clutches have been upgraded and that SGP is addressing this also.

Ron

PANCHOVILLA

iTrader: (6)

At what rpm level does the torque converter load anddo you shift in manual mode .
-Ponch

JoneZZZ

iTrader: (1)

PM sent............