Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

What?YOu mean Tuan from GRD did not hit 13 psi on his stock actuators?It can be done, you just need to run the slack out of the spring a bit and you can get another 1-2 psi on them..Ask GRD, they do it,we did it..
But we did upgrade to go past 13 psi..
Also FYI the Utec will allow you to adjust how fast the turbo spools up within the mapping by adjusting the BOOST CONTROL GAIN in the special constants section of the UTEC parameters.This works when in closed loop boost control. You would know this had you actually tuned a UTEC..
We do not like to sell our customers things they do not need, and why would you need an expensive EBC when the UTEC will and has done this job with the WRX guys for over 5 years now, and boosting 24+psi might I add..
We can debate the topic day and night,but the end is, with the addition of the UTEC and a BCS, you will no longer need the JDM YO! boost controlers that are made in Taiwan with cheap parts then marked up 600% to the American domestic consumers...
The UTEC combined with a simple and cost effective BCS will be the total engine and boost control package for a F/I 350Z. As of now, we are running the APS stock BCS and have had zero issues with boost spikes or creep..

35ounces

iTrader: (5)

Yeah that would be nice.

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

And how exactly do you thnk they achieve that? By a sophisticated electronical device (such as the UTEC) telling the wastegate how much air to bleed off...No matter how you cut it, the theory behind boost control is based on vacumes and pressures to the wastegates..Something controls that vacume and pressure and makes the wastegate do what it does..An expensive EBC is nothing more than an electronically controled method of bleeding air, causing the wastegate to either open or close.The mapping and method the expensive EBC utilize is no way different than the UTEC combined with a BCS...Every EBC on the market comes with a BCS do they not?
Do you think it is some sort of JDM magic at work?

TurboXS_Nathan

WG delay happens no matter what the capacity of the solenoid. Any decent closed loop system will take this into account and suddenly the capacity of the solenoid doesn’t matter so much any more. Additionally, the JDM twin solenoid designs actually don’t have as much capacity as you think. Open the box and you’ll find two small solenoids in a much larger and more impressive looking box. They are using “dual solenoid” as a marketing term and people are drinking the Kool-Aid.

Almost all of the aftermarket boost controllers do not respond the way you describe. They have a setting called “start boost” and they purposely start cycling the solenoid as soon as you pass your start boost setting to prevent boost spike. Set the start boost on an AVCR to 1psi under your boost target and watch how badly your boost spikes. Typically you are lucky if you can set this to 60-70% of your target without suffering massive spikes.

As for sophisticated “auto modes” the SBC-iD’s auto mode typically spools around 500-1000rpms later then the manual mode and the AVCR’s auto learning mode often results in inconsistent boost levels, spikes, and oscillation. The AVCR has the added benefit of randomly engaging auto mode after you’ve already got the controller working perfectly. The end result is that you loose your carefully created boost map. The E-01 is really no better.

I have very little problem with people wanting an EBC. Like I said, we make them, but I do not like our dealers implying that our customers need to spend another $600 on a product to make our $1100 ECU work properly when the ECU does the job just as well on it’s own.

There are additionally several good reasons why the 350z owners should consider letting the UTEC handle their boost control requirements.
1. it’s safer to have boost changes tied to fuel and timing map changes.
2. The average turbocharged 350z does not typically run enough boost to begin to stress the UTEC’s boost control system, so the average owner is better off spending that $600 on a weekend with their significant other or saving it for the inevitable car related emergency that comes from turbo charging a Z.
3. Using the UTECs boost control will prevent customers who shouldn’t be making changes to their boost levels from making such changes. If you are competent enough to tune your own car at the track you’ll already have a laptop with you and the exercise of increasing your boost in the UTEC software is trivial. If not, you shouldn’t be playing with your boost control settings in the first place.
4. The UTEC boost control map has 11 load columns and load points at every 250rpms. This allows a good tuner to setup a boost response curve that not only spools quickly under WOT conditions, but also is fine tuned for linear boost response as the throttle is applied at varying angles. The real advantage here is that we can tailor the boost curve in such a way as to tie torque linearly to the throttle opening angle of the Z. The improvement in drivability from this type of mapping can make the difference between a well tuned car and a ****-box.

We are rather proud of our DTEC based EBC. It uses some of the highest quality you’ll find in an EBC and has enough features and adjustability to meet the needs of even the most demanding professional drag racer, but it is not needed to get a UTECed 350z to work properly. Our DTEC-BC is worlds better then the competition and is one of the only boost controllers on the market that would be a true upgrade to the UTEC’s boost control abilities.

MoodDude

So I guess the question is - when will you try the closed loop?

Also, do you have a picture where to adjust the APS actuator to get to 13 psi?

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Hey Nathan, I wasnt implying that it was a bad idea to let the UTEC control boost. I also agree it is a terrific way to control and map boost. I am glad you guys feel you have a quality boost control solenoid that our customers can use. I was just concerned that people might be tempting to use something like an APS boost control solenoid, or so other setup, rather than a quality unit.

I am relaying my experience with the various boost controllers, but I havent used the UTEC boost control solenoids yet.

I am glad you clarified that!

TurboXS_Nathan

If the APS solenoid is similar to the GM solenoid it will work fine with the UTEC. The UTEC's control system is more then robust enough to allow for good results with just about any solenoid on the market as long as it’s reliable.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Nathan, then can explain the inconsistency we experience with the simple Greddy boost controllers, vs. the HKS or Blitz units? While I agree it may be marketing hype, the performance of these two advanced units far exceeds the Greddy electronic boost controllers. We experience no spike or creep at all with them, in constrast to the Greddy unit.

TurboXS_Nathan

Absolutely! The Greddy fuzzy logic Profec is about the worst controller on the market. The Blitz unit is a bit better, but still sucks when used in "auto mode" The standard profec B (old school non fuzzy logic) unit is essentially a "dumb" unit with no feedback being used to adjust its control scheme so it can not compensate in any way for temperature or density changes. The **** style setting with volume adjustments (iirc that’s what they call gain) should ideally be adjusted differently in different conditions, but they make no provision for this.

The HKS controller is a totally different beast and you can’t really compare it since it doesn’t use a solenoid at all so mechanically it functions in a completely different manner.

[b}All of these have problems related to the control logic, not the mechanical portion of the unit,[/b] but you seem to have confused the two parts. Mechanically the solenoids in the blitz unit are not really any better then the one in the profec. The control logic is what sets them apart. Their mechanical parts are ****-poor, but that’s not where the problem lies with these units. The mechanical problems show up in reliability, not in every day boost control related issues.

Additionally, I question the benefit (other then marketing) of running two solenoids in series (aka blitz sbc-id and DSBC). I’d love for you to explain why exactly you seem to think it is a better choice.

-Nathan

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Nathan, you will recall that we met at SEMA, and I was very ethusiastic about the things that TXS was doing with the 350Z/G35. The UTEC has taken plug/play tuning to a whole new level. I had the opportunty to tune my first two UTEC based 350Z's yesterday; both forced induction cars, and the level of control over the engine is superior to anything currently on the market.

I think you may have taken some of comments out of context. My entire point of this discussion, was to point that people should use a quality boost control solenoid, and I recommended that people wait until TXS launched theirs. Jerminae had indicated it was pending, but maybe you share some additional ETA info with us.

I am not an expert on boost controllers, and trust TXS to deliver a quality and reliable boost controller. I was mearly pointing out the differences between the various brands of boost controllers we have used, and our practical experience with them. We are looking forward to future developments, as it relates to the VQ35.

Slick 6MT

iTrader: (13)

Excellent post lifted from the dead!

Do any of you guys know if the Turbo XS Solenoids are out yet?

dmoffitt

iTrader: (4)

This certainly excites me, as it would appear there's quite a good chance further development will have occurred by the time I am tuning.

rrmedicx

iTrader: (54)

Does turboxs have a solenoid that will satisfy the needs of this thread yet?
Or should I just use the perrin that was recommended earlier in this thread for $89 bucks. I think I want to go this route and let the UTEC control boost as well. It definitely seems like the way to go.

I just wish I knew this sooner. I have the MAP sensor already, just need the right solenoid.

What have you got Nathan?

Weqster

most manufactures on the market today are using the same solenoids... Turbosmart, apexi, blitz... Its all about the CPU behind them that sets them apart. While i dont agree that the solenoid addon is the be all and end all of boost controllers, i would personally love one. One less thing to worry about and a great way to stop n00bs from altering things they shouldnt. If its as flexable and reliable as stated in this thread, i am all for it!

The big question is though, does it allow different boost in different gears?? Ie speed based

rrmedicx

iTrader: (54)

Good question. I have to talk to the guys at MRC about setting this one up for my Turbo & UTEC combo. In fact I'm a little surprised they didn't mention it already.

If I find out anything, I will let you know.

Bullitproof

iTrader: (3)

I got a turboxs solenoid on my car and it works fine at 9-10psi. we havent had time to really play with anything higher. right now my settings on the utec map selector are;

1. controller off, wastegate only 8psi 385whp
2. controller on 9.5psi 420whp
3 controller on 9.5 psi (c-16) race gas setting 440whp

Nismo350ZRT

iTrader: (4)

Bullit, did you run into any problems installing the UTEC? Did you use the shielded cas wire from the Unichip? I'm thinking about switching to the UTEC but I'm not sure all the bugs have been worked out yet.

rrmedicx

iTrader: (54)

I want what Bullitproof has!!!!
BTW where did you get your tuning work done?

Where did you buy the solenoid?

Thanks.