Nano

iTrader: (1)

I was asking in case someone is considering these things, If I were to do it now, I probably would go with only Solid motor mounts, even though I love the dampener! One day I loosened it by mistake, and could feel the car less responsive instantly. I've seen a few solo cars (240sx) that use both... but again, maybe they just did as you did, get the dampener first, than get solid mounts and leave the dampener... I'm sure it can't hurt stiffness.

You should take the car on a track(not drag) and flog it . I have tracked my car after every mod, and every time it was a nice difference. I recently had a ride on a 100% stock car, and couldn't believe how ****ty it was, lol. My brakes squeal, I have rattles, my exhaust farts and and pops, etc., etc. and I love it this way, lol, this is what sportcars are about!

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

yeah exactly, if I knew back then what I do now I probably would have made some different choices on things here and there and saved a lot of money. But it's just hard cause the only way to really know is to try it. And everyone has an opinion about how a car should or shouldn't drive. Hell my car might end up not being anything special and this might all be just another mistake to learn from.

yeah ditto on driving the stock car. I did that awhile ago to compare to my NA modded Z, and I couldn't believe how much slower it was than my car even back then. I started a thread on it:

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ighlight=drove

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

ok back to the gearing thing, here's a graph i stumbled across for the stock gearing

So you can kinda see the direction the tq curves move as the gears get shorter

and here's another graph that's been around for awhile too

you can see the 3.9 makes the biggest difference in 4th-6th gear even though it's still the same 10%, you're not talking about a 15mph difference vs 3mph like ikn 1st gear. IMO if you have big power, 1st gear is going to be worthless whether you have the 3.9 gearing or 3.3 gearing

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

ok I have what the 3.9 gearing should be like superimposed - sorry the graph is a little sloppy - too lazy to clean it up

anyway I took each individual curve and reduced its width by 10% and increased its height by 10% then superimposed in on the same starting position

it should be pretty close to accurate

I think the last curve on the bottom is some sort of total accelleration curve? Either way before it was showing 160mph as the limit, but we know the stock 3.5 gearing can go up to 184mph if it had enough power. With the 3.9 gears, we know that 162 would be the real top speed, so I filled in the blank by continuing the curve in the direction it looked like it wanted to move up in

in theory the total volume can be calculated for a given gear how much power you're exerting on the road for different final drives and ST vs SC etc


Of course these curves represent the stock tq curve of the engine

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Lol-I like how you justify centrifigul S/C's lack of TQ and your better gearing using other peoples dyno's(with WAY different peak #'s and area's under the curve compared to a 400whp ST and S/C) and think you'll make more power down low and after 5250. And BTW there are now ST's in the 11's and 3 running 12.3-12.5 that I know of just this week. Compare that to the 1 guy I know of running 12.3 S/C'd, most guys run high 12's low 13's. I always see you posting how you think your gearing is gonna make up for the TQ blah blah. I cant wait till you get to the track and see if you can back up your theories....

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

I love you alberto

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

If your not building a drag Z-which I know arent your intentions then stop talking about BS 1/4 times for other types of FI.

And yeah 440+whp S/C vs 400whp ST is a fair comparison Compare same peak numbers with both kits and same dyno's to truly see the weakness of the S/C and then try to tell me your gears would save you at the dragstrip/road course/occasionaly stop light battle/whatever. Good luck with your Z....

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

Either way it was just my decision to go this route and I'm glad you're happy with your setup, and am sorry I let you down by not going the turbo route

and I will stop talking about BS drag times as you request if that means you'll be happy

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Look man, I know you have your reasons for S/C over turbo, Im not trying to sell you or anybody on which is better. Every owner has to decide what their goals, uses are. I just didnt like the obviously opinionated "ST owners think their cars are faster than what they are...they run high 12's blah blah" comments. And your comparison was weak. If your going to try to compare at least compare 400whp S/C vs 400whp ST, and you wont see the S/C gaining over 5250rpm's like you stated earlier. Your comparison was very unfair...

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

ok that's cool. I thought I made it clear though, but maybe I didn't. If you take your AVERAGE ST owner who has a near stock car otherwise with a ST, they get their bling rims with near stock sizes or maybe 275 wide at most, running street tires, yeah they're going to spin out their tires a lot at mid rpms don't you think? Some people might confuse that by thinking they have "so much power they just spin out their tires" even though their obvious flaw is their lack of proper tire/wheel selection - driving ability aside.

I've read numerous posts of people like that running high 12's because of both lack of driving skill and lack of car balance with not enough tire to match their tq.

That was all I meant by that.

Obviously we all know people who know how to drive and know how to set up a car - like you, can run much much faster than that cause they can actually make use of that power.

so in that sense they were BS numbers because there's a lot of BS drivers/owners out there




exactly. which is what I said beforehand. The comparison was not against 400whp vs 400whp. It was my car vs your average ST car. My car isn't the norm. Was it weak? maybe. I knew someone would call that one out. My thinking is for a ST to get 440whp would mean the peak tq would be huge and I'm not comfortable with that much tq/stress on a stock block. Even with parasitic loss factored in for the SC, it wouldn't approach 440tq. At redline there's much more stress - where my car would be making more tq than the 400whp ST car, but I have cams which will help get the heat out better than stock cams. Not only that, but as you up the boost on a ST, the tq curve becomes more and more exagerated and less flat or gradual which is a key thing

you're right it isn't a fair comparison at all, but for some reason I'm compelled to see how my car theoretically would stack up to the average ST setup and use that as an example to show the differences

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

monday update:

the engine and transmission are back in the car now. Him and someone else lowered the engine in really carefully and didn't scratch the headers at all on the way in. John was commenting that the solid engine mount bolts could have been about a half inch longer and he was saying if he was making them he would have sleeved the inside of it or something to that effect. But the engine is in and they work, just not 100% great fitment in his opinion.

He has some of the supercharger stuff bolted on now - that bolt was reversed like it was shown in that thread and he has the 3.12 pulley on now. When I called he said he was putting accessory things back on and also got the stillen master brake cylinder brace drilled out

Sounds like I won't be driving it home until Wed. John thinks he'll have everything put back together by the end of tomorrow then it'll be tuned Wed. Then John wants to drive it around for a bit and make sure everything is working right and get the car running at normal temp etc since so much stuff was changed.


I gotta say I've been waiting to FI my car for so long and took my time buying parts and researching stuff out, and figuring it'd take a couple weeks or so to get everything put on while waiting for parts to come in etc - and it hasn't been until the last couple days that I've felt really excited about it getting done. Weird, but I guess it's just cause it's getting so close where before it felt so far away and distant that it was about as exciting as saying to yourself "yeah and one day I'll own an Enzo" That and I want to see if the car ends up being a real performer or if it'll end up not being so great.

I mean, when I initially did all my major NA upgrades all at once - gained like 50whp and lightened the car up etc. It sure felt faster but didn't make me go "holy ****!!!!" Was kinda a let down. Just hope this doesn't end up being the same thing

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

pics

everything is on schedule from last time. That's about it.


John had a lot of good feedback about the CJM return fuel kit. I bought the stage 1 kit which is more than what I need. John was seriously impressed with the quality of the parts and how everything fit together. He only had the APS system's to compare it too because he's never installed the AAM one, but John was saying that he likes the system much better than the APS kit (that's probably obvious) and the only things he'd change about it turn out to be exactly the changes that the stage 2 kit has.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

more pics

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

Hey Sentry,

Just wondering how someone like you that does so much research into products before purchasing them ended up buying the SSV? This is a legitmate question and I am not trying to ruffle your feathers. It's just I've seen you research your FI project for a long time and just wondered why you went with the SSV. From what I have seen it doesn't make power.

When does your car get tuned? I bet your can't wait to get it back.

acg

iTrader: (7)

I'm glad you said that and not me as I was just thinking it.

jpc350z

+1

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

well back in the day when the SSV was brand new and wasn't quite proven or not if it did anything, I broke a bolt on my lower plenum. I currently had a crawford V4 upper plenum - before the cast one with the bigger throttle body opening.

Anyway I really didn't want to spend $200 on a new stock part and even if I could track someone down and buy the theirs used for $50, I didn't feel like spending money on the exact same thing I already had. The other option was getting the 05 track edition lower plenum for $200 but I didn't like the dynos it had at all. So I figured I could either spend $50-200 on the exact same lower plenum I already had, or sell the older crawford plenum for $150 and strut bar for $100 and pay out of pocket $450 for the SSV and get to use the better stock strut bar again. I went with the SSV

Also, I can use a thermo gasket with the SSV. Thermo gaskets can cool the manifold down 10-20 degrees since it's not touching metal to metal and some people have reported 5-10 degree cooler air temps with it. In other cars sometimes it's cooled the air by 15 or slightly more degrees from what I've heard (who knows). So there's where the gains are despite the SSV being made of stainless steel vs aluminum. Few people used them or know about them. Last I heard they're now discontinued because no one was buying them for the Z because everyone is getting spacers or plenums which won't work with these in your usual cases cause it'd move the manifold higher and rub the hood. I guess with the solid motor mounts you could run any intake manifold/plenum cause it lowers the engine, but how many people will run them? Either way I think I'll be happy with the setup

Another thing was at the time I wasn't sure if I was going FI or not, but I knew the crawford strut bar wasn't as strong as the stock bar and didn't work with certain FI kits - as in all the supercharger kits.

Anyway, I bought the SSV for $700 for the group buy before anyone did accurate before and after dynos and the first batch of people who got it were saying good things. It wasn't until later that kinetix upped the price to $825 or whatever - that's a rediculous price btw

When I got it and installed it, I did a write up in one of the threads, but for NA I actually felt I gained power - but maybe it was cause I was running lean before and the SSV richened things up? I dunno, but I actually felt like I gained power, but maybe it was the placebo effect. Either way I figured it looked cool (IMO), was 10 lbs lighter, allowed easier access to the parts underneath - could see the fuel rails etc which IMO look nicer than a big chuck of aluminum that the crawford is, and with a vented hood I was thinking it might let heat flow off the engine better. That and it's a little more rare than the normal plenums.

But as it turns out, it's the best option with the vortech because of the strut bar issue. Otherwise you gotta stay with the stock plenum to use a strut bar.

Really I kept looking at the parts currently on my car back then and I'd look at the vortech kit and I just kept thinking they're a perfect match up. The only major thing I'd really have to sell was the tilton clutch. Went back and forth from one setup to another debating with myself for months until I decided to go with vortech. I originally wanted to do the whole big turbo thing - 550whp, built engine etc, but I figure I've spent too much money on this car as is and need to cap it off somewhere. The vortech is a finite system. I can only get so much power out of it until the kit basically needs to be redesigned, and by then I'd probably just take it off and go turbo if I really did just want huge power numbers.

I sat down and realized I'd drive it 99% of the time on the street because the car would just be too expensive to go tracking it all the time for me to feel comfortable with it. That and tracking isn't cheap - rotors, brake pads, brake fluid, tires, oil, entry fees, etc etc. I'd honestly rather have a cheap used race miata or something for track days because of how cheap parts are and how many used ones are already setup for tracking

So I had to make the active decision that my car will be faster than a normal Z and very friendly to any types of driving, but masters of none and a good street car, faster than my dad's stock C6 (which is petty, but you know how it is), and I think I'd actually be happy with all that

sja177

iTrader: (1)

The vortech kit aint exactly "weak", and yea there have been 3 cars that ran low 12s an you ran an 11.9 (on slicks) there has also been 3 owners with holes in their blocks. Sometimes I wish I would have gone ST, but when I look on here at all the problems they have Im happy I stuck with the torqeless vortech.
It was also a lot cheaper, you have to take that into consideration.

sja177

iTrader: (1)

And btw, that guy has an automatic vortech and he ran a 12.4 on street tires, which I believe will be right around 11.9 on slicks
Man I cant imagine Alberto losing to an auto vortech, lol

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

yeah all the kits have their own sets of issues and we have so much more knowledge, parts, and experience now than 1-2 years ago. But yeah if any user isn't aware of all the issues and not monitoring things, somethings going to blow up if the proper precautions aren't taken.

The TN kit IMO is one of those kits that's a great kit but if a FI newbie gets it installed and trusts the ECU flash to be spot on - they pretty much might have signed their engine's death sentence. The blind faith thing isn't a good method on these engines