my vortech tuner kit install process thread
04-06-2006, 02:12 PM
#101
this is rediculous
Right now the latest plan of action is to tow my car down to a nissan dealer and have them resync my keys up with one of these ECU's that we have
I can't seem to confirm how the immobilizer chip works. I've called AAM and they say to start a Z, you need the ECU and a key and them to be registered and that's it.
Technosquare told john that there's a 3rd chip inside the car.
John has a G35 there right now and he was contemplating taking the ECU and key from that and putting them in my car and try to start it to see if the car at least starts - then we'd know it's an ECU issue.
Technosquare said to not try that though cause that might screw up the sync between the ECU and key (how that happen, I have no clue)
I can't get any nissan dealer to drive a guy to the shop with a nissan computer - even offering to literally buy one of their computers as refundable collateral just to save having to tow my car
well John is making some phone calls, we'll see. John's 110% sure everything is put back together the right way - he's gone over a checklist of things to make sure are plugged in. He's checked my ECU wiring to make sure all the connections are in, he sees that the car is getting fuel pressure when he tries to start it, but the gas isn't going into the engine
edit - ok I have a PDF now, there is in fact a security thing in the car called the Body Control Module. We've probably screwed the sync up just by plugging in these different ECU's into it and now it probably thinks my key is the wrong key even with the ECU that's disabled
This makes me feel relieved actually that this might be all it is
I've talked to 3 nissan dealers, and John is talking with a technition with one of them right now, depending on what they say, we'll tow the car 2 miles down the road to nissan to get this solved hopefully.
.....waiting for the phone call.
Right now the latest plan of action is to tow my car down to a nissan dealer and have them resync my keys up with one of these ECU's that we have
I can't seem to confirm how the immobilizer chip works. I've called AAM and they say to start a Z, you need the ECU and a key and them to be registered and that's it.
Technosquare told john that there's a 3rd chip inside the car.
John has a G35 there right now and he was contemplating taking the ECU and key from that and putting them in my car and try to start it to see if the car at least starts - then we'd know it's an ECU issue.
Technosquare said to not try that though cause that might screw up the sync between the ECU and key (how that happen, I have no clue)
I can't get any nissan dealer to drive a guy to the shop with a nissan computer - even offering to literally buy one of their computers as refundable collateral just to save having to tow my car
well John is making some phone calls, we'll see. John's 110% sure everything is put back together the right way - he's gone over a checklist of things to make sure are plugged in. He's checked my ECU wiring to make sure all the connections are in, he sees that the car is getting fuel pressure when he tries to start it, but the gas isn't going into the engine
edit - ok I have a PDF now, there is in fact a security thing in the car called the Body Control Module. We've probably screwed the sync up just by plugging in these different ECU's into it and now it probably thinks my key is the wrong key even with the ECU that's disabled
This makes me feel relieved actually that this might be all it is
I've talked to 3 nissan dealers, and John is talking with a technition with one of them right now, depending on what they say, we'll tow the car 2 miles down the road to nissan to get this solved hopefully.
.....waiting for the phone call.
Last edited by sentry65; 04-06-2006 at 02:36 PM.
04-06-2006, 03:28 PM
#102
alright, well we hooked up with a really knowledgable tech at the nissan dealer. He gave us the run down of how the immobilizer works.
FYI, the BCM is the centerpiece of everything as far as it's concerned. What it does is determine if the key in fact matches it, and then it sends a signal to the ECU. If the ECU's coding agrees with the BCM's then it starts up.
Anyway, John gave the tech a full run down and they both agree they think the ECU immobilizer getting messed up is what happened.
The tech just transfered to that dealer though and doesn't actually start until monday. We'd prefer him to work on the car since he knows the situation and is probably the most knowledgable tech there.
.....monday, agh. It's going to be hard to wait that long just to find out if the car starts up or not and it would seem I owe it all to Technosquare.
FYI, the BCM is the centerpiece of everything as far as it's concerned. What it does is determine if the key in fact matches it, and then it sends a signal to the ECU. If the ECU's coding agrees with the BCM's then it starts up.
Anyway, John gave the tech a full run down and they both agree they think the ECU immobilizer getting messed up is what happened.
The tech just transfered to that dealer though and doesn't actually start until monday. We'd prefer him to work on the car since he knows the situation and is probably the most knowledgable tech there.
.....monday, agh. It's going to be hard to wait that long just to find out if the car starts up or not and it would seem I owe it all to Technosquare.
Last edited by sentry65; 04-06-2006 at 03:43 PM.
04-07-2006, 03:04 AM
#103
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that is insane... having such a smooth install, and then having everything hanging over **** for such a stupid mistake.
I'd be busting some *** seriously, hope they are/will make up for it...
I'd be busting some *** seriously, hope they are/will make up for it...
04-07-2006, 06:31 AM
#104
ok I'm getting this ball rolling. I have a flatbed tow truck showing up this moring at Dynocomp to tow it to nissan. Nissan will program the keys and John will be going with me to be there when the car starts up. Depending on how things look, we'll slowly drive it back the 1.5 miles and then tune the car.
It will be with just the ECU plugged in that should be running on technosquare's vortech map, the emanage ultimate will be disconnected.
If all goes well (ha) the car just might be finished today
It will be with just the ECU plugged in that should be running on technosquare's vortech map, the emanage ultimate will be disconnected.
If all goes well (ha) the car just might be finished today
04-07-2006, 07:04 AM
#106
Damn, I hate set-backs, but you cant go through with something this big, and not have a few either during install or shortly after. For me, my TB failed few days after my install. Good luck with getting that car started, Im eager to see your results/impressions....
04-07-2006, 01:18 PM
#107
well the saga continues.
I'll do a photofest of pictures in a sec when I format them - should be better quality this time around
ok got the car, got it towed to nissan. The good tech we talked with was working today - kinda partly because of us. Anyway we get there, hook the consult II up to it, and there were several back and forth things that happened - detecting this and that but not this, then detecting it, but not something else. We ended up hooking the 2 different ECU's up to my car and each one had its own set of issues. I think both the ECU's are actually registered with my car and keys now...
The tech was 100% sure you need the immobilizer active to start the car. So the ECU with it disabled was some bogus thing technosquare gave us. Dynocomp isn't happy with those guys at all and they've been very unprofessional over the phone with trying to reach someone of any importance etc.
Anyway the car would not start, but we did get the keys, ECU, and BCM back in sync with each other and the immobilizer setup the right way again. So now the car was able to actually TRY to start. It sucks that it didn't start, but because there's actual stuff able to happen, now Jon (think it's Jon, not John - oops) can properly troubleshoot things. Him and the tech went over a lot of stuff right there in the service driveway. Was kinda funny seeing nissan's premiere car being worked on out front, hehe - lots of onlookers etc
Checked fuses, checked that there's now spark. I'm actually a little confused on it all cause so much went on, but it gives Jon the ability to start trying to figure things out.
Anyway, the car was towed back to Dynocomp ($57 tow there, $57 tow back, $112 nissan charge, yay) and Jon says he'll work on it Sunday which is his day off - poor guy. He has a great sense of pride and keeps telling me he wants to get this resolved just as much as me cause he built it.
There's several things that it could be. I don't know all the details - too techy for me, but one thing was mentioned that it could be the ATS clutch isn't lined up just right the way my last clutch was and that's causing the engine to not start ultimately. Jon's installed several clutches on 350Z's and this business about the clutch having to line up just perfectly was a bit of a suprise. The tech said he thinks it's a stupid design - that the clutch/crank angle sensor is so picky - and that the ECU is so voodoo picky. It could be something else entirely though. It's still going to take time to troubleshoot.
The ECU hasn't been eliminated for being a culprit too, but at this point we know it's getting all the proper signals. I think the consult II was saying at the end that everything was working fine other than one or two things - one being the crank angle signal.
Jon is currently doing a APS TT G35 today thru next thursday. He really wants to get my car done though cause it's hovering over everyone's head. So all I can hope is that he can come up with something on sunday. He actually feels better about things now than yesterday because even though it's a drag, he can start narrowing things down
pics coming in a bit...
I'll do a photofest of pictures in a sec when I format them - should be better quality this time around
ok got the car, got it towed to nissan. The good tech we talked with was working today - kinda partly because of us. Anyway we get there, hook the consult II up to it, and there were several back and forth things that happened - detecting this and that but not this, then detecting it, but not something else. We ended up hooking the 2 different ECU's up to my car and each one had its own set of issues. I think both the ECU's are actually registered with my car and keys now...
The tech was 100% sure you need the immobilizer active to start the car. So the ECU with it disabled was some bogus thing technosquare gave us. Dynocomp isn't happy with those guys at all and they've been very unprofessional over the phone with trying to reach someone of any importance etc.
Anyway the car would not start, but we did get the keys, ECU, and BCM back in sync with each other and the immobilizer setup the right way again. So now the car was able to actually TRY to start. It sucks that it didn't start, but because there's actual stuff able to happen, now Jon (think it's Jon, not John - oops) can properly troubleshoot things. Him and the tech went over a lot of stuff right there in the service driveway. Was kinda funny seeing nissan's premiere car being worked on out front, hehe - lots of onlookers etc
Checked fuses, checked that there's now spark. I'm actually a little confused on it all cause so much went on, but it gives Jon the ability to start trying to figure things out.
Anyway, the car was towed back to Dynocomp ($57 tow there, $57 tow back, $112 nissan charge, yay) and Jon says he'll work on it Sunday which is his day off - poor guy. He has a great sense of pride and keeps telling me he wants to get this resolved just as much as me cause he built it.
There's several things that it could be. I don't know all the details - too techy for me, but one thing was mentioned that it could be the ATS clutch isn't lined up just right the way my last clutch was and that's causing the engine to not start ultimately. Jon's installed several clutches on 350Z's and this business about the clutch having to line up just perfectly was a bit of a suprise. The tech said he thinks it's a stupid design - that the clutch/crank angle sensor is so picky - and that the ECU is so voodoo picky. It could be something else entirely though. It's still going to take time to troubleshoot.
The ECU hasn't been eliminated for being a culprit too, but at this point we know it's getting all the proper signals. I think the consult II was saying at the end that everything was working fine other than one or two things - one being the crank angle signal.
Jon is currently doing a APS TT G35 today thru next thursday. He really wants to get my car done though cause it's hovering over everyone's head. So all I can hope is that he can come up with something on sunday. He actually feels better about things now than yesterday because even though it's a drag, he can start narrowing things down
pics coming in a bit...
Last edited by sentry65; 04-07-2006 at 03:06 PM.
04-07-2006, 01:34 PM
#108
I'm really happy with Jon's install assuming the car gets fixed. At the dealer there was a guy who has a stillen kit and he was commenting on how clean the install is. Everyone else there was all going nuts over the car too wanting to hear the thing run etc.
On a side note, I found out about my last dyno that my NA Z made just as much power as a stillen Z
(who knows what stage though) So hopefully that's a good strong starting point to add the vortech into the mix
I can't believe how much lower the engine sits!!! holy crap I'm happy with that. Before with the SSV and the stock gasket, there was like 3mm of clearance between the strut bar and the SSV. Meaning if I put the thermogasket on, the SSV and strut would rub. Now with the thermogasket on - which is about 5mm thick (vs 1mm stock) there's about at least 5mm of clearance between the strut bar and SSV - maybe even like 7-8mm, but I don't remember
oh, and yes I'm aware I have a wheel center cap on my rear left wheel and not on any of the others - that sucker is ON there and it'll be coming off next time the wheel comes off
I might note that I really wish I went with the polished vortech now. The bare aluminum doesn't look so glamorous, but oh well. And yes my grounding cables used to be silver - this is my 2nd set and I went with a high quality name brand etc this time - they just turn brownish after awhile. Another regret is I'm thinking I should have gone bigger than 440 injectors, but I suppose being on a stock block they'll be fine for the power levels I'm shooting for
There seems to be some doubt that my hawker oddesey battery will hold up with the supercharger. It actually died and we've been keeping it going with a tricklecharger. I'll end up going with an optima. At the time I bought that battery I didn't think I'd be going FI soon
Jon also used a different bolt in the motor by where the belt was almost rubbing it. So being a good precaution, there shouldn't be any chance of it rubbing the belt now
As we were trying to start the car, I sorta got a preview of the solid motor mounts and the vibration. This doesn't really mean anything, but the vibration during trying to start it seemed like nothing. It also seemed louder - I'm guessing due to the force echoing thru the entire body frame and not stopping at the rubber stock mounts. Can't really comment though until the car starts and drive it.
Jon was mentioning that the ATS clutch needs 200 miles of break in before being driven hard. So we're not sure what to do about dynoing. I suppose we might get it on the dyno and get a preliminatry check of where things are running and drive it slow for 200 miles - maybe making some quick adjustments with the EU first, then dyno tune later? we'll see
We were already talking about a CAI design fabing some tubing and using some APS rubber bending tubing. Also oil cooler stuff. I'm not sure if I want to go with a radically different bumper though...
When pushing the clutch in with the ATS, first thing I noticed was it's not as stiff feeling as the tilton - i personally will miss that. What it does though is weird to me, it's semi-soft till about 2/3 of the way in, then gets hard all of the sudden. Jon said it needs to break in first and I can understand that.
I can't wait to drive the car and do the best I can to "review" each part, but it's really going to be more of a total car review. Admitidly, it's kinda neat having people go "whoa, do you have ____?" and I go yeah got that. Then they ask if I have another part, and I tell them yeah got that too, etc.
Jon and I talked about getting a bigger intercooler and he thinks the stock one is fine for the power levels i'm shooting for. He was saying going bigger means colder temps, but slower air. I'm thinking of water injection at some point - we'll see though. Am curious how people's SC kits work out without running an intercooler with the water injection
so here's some pictures of my day
On a side note, I found out about my last dyno that my NA Z made just as much power as a stillen Z
(who knows what stage though) So hopefully that's a good strong starting point to add the vortech into the mixI can't believe how much lower the engine sits!!! holy crap I'm happy with that. Before with the SSV and the stock gasket, there was like 3mm of clearance between the strut bar and the SSV. Meaning if I put the thermogasket on, the SSV and strut would rub. Now with the thermogasket on - which is about 5mm thick (vs 1mm stock) there's about at least 5mm of clearance between the strut bar and SSV - maybe even like 7-8mm, but I don't remember
oh, and yes I'm aware I have a wheel center cap on my rear left wheel and not on any of the others - that sucker is ON there and it'll be coming off next time the wheel comes off
I might note that I really wish I went with the polished vortech now. The bare aluminum doesn't look so glamorous, but oh well. And yes my grounding cables used to be silver - this is my 2nd set and I went with a high quality name brand etc this time - they just turn brownish after awhile. Another regret is I'm thinking I should have gone bigger than 440 injectors, but I suppose being on a stock block they'll be fine for the power levels I'm shooting for
There seems to be some doubt that my hawker oddesey battery will hold up with the supercharger. It actually died and we've been keeping it going with a tricklecharger. I'll end up going with an optima. At the time I bought that battery I didn't think I'd be going FI soon
Jon also used a different bolt in the motor by where the belt was almost rubbing it. So being a good precaution, there shouldn't be any chance of it rubbing the belt now
As we were trying to start the car, I sorta got a preview of the solid motor mounts and the vibration. This doesn't really mean anything, but the vibration during trying to start it seemed like nothing. It also seemed louder - I'm guessing due to the force echoing thru the entire body frame and not stopping at the rubber stock mounts. Can't really comment though until the car starts and drive it.
Jon was mentioning that the ATS clutch needs 200 miles of break in before being driven hard. So we're not sure what to do about dynoing. I suppose we might get it on the dyno and get a preliminatry check of where things are running and drive it slow for 200 miles - maybe making some quick adjustments with the EU first, then dyno tune later? we'll see
We were already talking about a CAI design fabing some tubing and using some APS rubber bending tubing. Also oil cooler stuff. I'm not sure if I want to go with a radically different bumper though...
When pushing the clutch in with the ATS, first thing I noticed was it's not as stiff feeling as the tilton - i personally will miss that. What it does though is weird to me, it's semi-soft till about 2/3 of the way in, then gets hard all of the sudden. Jon said it needs to break in first and I can understand that.
I can't wait to drive the car and do the best I can to "review" each part, but it's really going to be more of a total car review. Admitidly, it's kinda neat having people go "whoa, do you have ____?" and I go yeah got that. Then they ask if I have another part, and I tell them yeah got that too, etc.
Jon and I talked about getting a bigger intercooler and he thinks the stock one is fine for the power levels i'm shooting for. He was saying going bigger means colder temps, but slower air. I'm thinking of water injection at some point - we'll see though. Am curious how people's SC kits work out without running an intercooler with the water injection
so here's some pictures of my day
Last edited by sentry65; 04-07-2006 at 03:52 PM.
04-07-2006, 03:28 PM
#112
Yeah last thing Jon wants to do is take off the transmission again trying to troubleshoot something that may or may not be the problem. I'm sure he's going to first go over everything else he can before resorting to trying that.
As far as technosquare, well we do have 2 ECU's that they sent us, and right now we're not about to send whatever one we don't end up using back...unless they can somehow make up for all this mess. It just really sucks not knowing if the ECU is good or not. We should have done this thing last but that just isn't what happened. I honestly didn't think TS would screw up this bad
three more pics - one being a not so great side shot of GTspec ladder brace under car - will get an underneath shot sometime
As far as technosquare, well we do have 2 ECU's that they sent us, and right now we're not about to send whatever one we don't end up using back...unless they can somehow make up for all this mess. It just really sucks not knowing if the ECU is good or not. We should have done this thing last but that just isn't what happened. I honestly didn't think TS would screw up this bad
three more pics - one being a not so great side shot of GTspec ladder brace under car - will get an underneath shot sometime
Last edited by sentry65; 04-07-2006 at 03:46 PM.
04-10-2006, 10:29 AM
#114
minor update:
Jon spent part of his day off on sunday and went thru all the diagnostic troubleshooting that the nissan service manual has said and the car is working 100% fine except for there being no crank angle signal happening which won't let it start
At this point he's pretty sure it's the clutch/flywheel install. It'll take him 4 hours or so to pull the transmission down and he's not going to have time to do it until the end of the week because of the G35 APS TT that was scheduled this week.
I already sold my tilton clutch which is a bit of a shame now cause he says he doesn't remember there being a dowel pin on the ATS clutch and is wondering if it came off with the tilton. I do have my original stock clutch though and he wants me to bring it in just so he can compare it to the ATS. Also the G35 is having a new built engine put in and he can also see how the flywheel is put on that car.
Hopefully that's what the problem is. For my sake, if it is then a lot of the extra troubleshooting time I won't be charged for. If that isn't the problem, then who knows why the car won't start and I'll be charged for the troubleshooting time that's been spent on it. So I REALLY hope it was the flywheel not being lined up right cause it's just going to be a big mess if it isn't
Jon spent part of his day off on sunday and went thru all the diagnostic troubleshooting that the nissan service manual has said and the car is working 100% fine except for there being no crank angle signal happening which won't let it start
At this point he's pretty sure it's the clutch/flywheel install. It'll take him 4 hours or so to pull the transmission down and he's not going to have time to do it until the end of the week because of the G35 APS TT that was scheduled this week.
I already sold my tilton clutch which is a bit of a shame now cause he says he doesn't remember there being a dowel pin on the ATS clutch and is wondering if it came off with the tilton. I do have my original stock clutch though and he wants me to bring it in just so he can compare it to the ATS. Also the G35 is having a new built engine put in and he can also see how the flywheel is put on that car.
Hopefully that's what the problem is. For my sake, if it is then a lot of the extra troubleshooting time I won't be charged for. If that isn't the problem, then who knows why the car won't start and I'll be charged for the troubleshooting time that's been spent on it. So I REALLY hope it was the flywheel not being lined up right cause it's just going to be a big mess if it isn't
Last edited by sentry65; 04-10-2006 at 10:32 AM.
04-10-2006, 10:36 AM
#116
yeah I'm honestly a little annoyed that I keep getting bumped time and time again even though I had this project scheduled over 4 weeks ago, but it won't be cool of me to start *****ing about it. I don't want to burn any bridges with this shop. As long as the bill isn't some crazy amount of money - for a freakin vortech install, and the car turns out ok, then I'll be happy. Otherwise I was expecting trouble to arise - it always does with anything I get installed.
The ECU seems to be reading everything fine, just hope it isn't really the cause of this crap
The ECU seems to be reading everything fine, just hope it isn't really the cause of this crap
Last edited by sentry65; 04-10-2006 at 10:48 AM.
04-10-2006, 10:52 AM
#117
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Originally Posted by Alberto
That sucks man, another week. If he screwed up I think he should finish what he started before putting you on the waiting list and starting with something new...
04-10-2006, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sentry65
As long as the bill isn't some crazy amount of money - for a freakin vortech install, and the car turns out ok, then I'll be happy. Otherwise I was expecting trouble to arise - it always does with anything I get installed.
04-10-2006, 12:08 PM
#120
well the original "estimate" was that they'd need my car for 5 days. Last I heard they charge $89 an hour. I knew there'd probably be some minor setbacks along the way cause this was the first vortech kit they did and some of the other stuff was a little different than usual - not to mention we kept adding little extra things here and there to do. And like I said before, I'm paying for a quality install.
So far Jon has said that something would be worked out in the end and I gotta trust/hope that it'll be something fair considering how much I've had to wait and be patient with being bumped all the time. A good portion of the setbacks are because I was waiting on parts that needed to be mailed to me. I fully understand that they gotta move onto the next project if my car is waiting on parts.
Last friday Jon spent half of the day with my car even though he was scheduled to be working on that G35. And then he came in over the weekend on his own free time to start troubleshooting. I think I've been treated fairly assuming they're honest about the total amount of time spent on my car. It is admitidly kinda hard to have to wait until the end of the week to find out whether my car will start up or if I'm gonna owe them a lot of extra money and still not know why the car won't start.
From other customer's perspectives, it'd be frusturating to have an appointment scheduled and show up on time on that day with your car and then them not start working on your car for a few days. Finishing up my car and bumping other people would mean them doing just that to other customers. Even though I was there "first," my car is a wildcard in terms of predicting how long it'll take to finish.
Man I miss my Z
So far Jon has said that something would be worked out in the end and I gotta trust/hope that it'll be something fair considering how much I've had to wait and be patient with being bumped all the time. A good portion of the setbacks are because I was waiting on parts that needed to be mailed to me. I fully understand that they gotta move onto the next project if my car is waiting on parts.
Last friday Jon spent half of the day with my car even though he was scheduled to be working on that G35. And then he came in over the weekend on his own free time to start troubleshooting. I think I've been treated fairly assuming they're honest about the total amount of time spent on my car. It is admitidly kinda hard to have to wait until the end of the week to find out whether my car will start up or if I'm gonna owe them a lot of extra money and still not know why the car won't start.
From other customer's perspectives, it'd be frusturating to have an appointment scheduled and show up on time on that day with your car and then them not start working on your car for a few days. Finishing up my car and bumping other people would mean them doing just that to other customers. Even though I was there "first," my car is a wildcard in terms of predicting how long it'll take to finish.
Man I miss my Z
Last edited by sentry65; 04-10-2006 at 12:26 PM.