dank311

iTrader: (8)

I am personally looking into the Turbonetics Tuner Kit, APS TT tuner kit, Greddy TT, and JWT TT. IMO all these kits lack in one of the areas; proper fuel system, fuel pump, injectors, or EMS. For best safety/reliability while heavily tracking, I am planning on adding a Full Fuel Return system (AAM/CJM style), correct sized injectors, fuel pump, oil pan spacer if needed, and the most complete EMS w/o going overboard on price (UTEC). So my decision factors really come down to the turbos and intercooler design in each system.

In which brings me to the original topic of this thread...How do the turbos in each kit compare in the aspects of size matching to the VQ engine, efficiency ranges of turbo(power ranges that the particular turbo is working best in), powerband (low,mid,top end characteristics), spool, overall design(twin BB, ceramic bearing, oil, water cooling, etc..)
I have done lots of research reading reviews, threads on the forums, and comparing dynos...I would appreciate if all the turbo owners, installers, and experienced ones could comment.

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

I can't answer your questions, but based on the dyno charts I've seen if I could do it all over again I would go with the JWT kit, AAM fuel system, bigger injectors, and FCON. The JWT spools incredibably fast and produces monster tq. The only thing I don't like about JWT is the ghey looking intercoolers. I prefer one big intercooler over two little ones.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

All the turbos aside from the Greddy are ball bearing center section turbos which greatly improve spool up, performance, and longevity. To my knowledge only the APS units are water cooled though. That being said all the turbos are good to the 500 HP range which is all you should ever need at the track (road course). If you want BIG numbers the Greddy unit and the Stage 2 Turbonetics turbo are going to take you the furthest out of box.

AmyCroft

iTrader: (3)

Check again - The new Intercooler is one Piece. And you don't have to remove the Aluminum Bar or screw with the Air Bag Sensor. The new unit is strack,

Cheers Amy -

And the new pluming removes a foot of pipe on each side.. Looked good at Stillen meat. Er Meet

Ha

Cheers Amy -

Bench Racer's of America - Unite !! The Cultural revolution is here.. Opps Sorry, my engineer at work is from Beijing.

Ha !

Zivman

iTrader: (19)

I think the APS put the most thought into pairing the turbos to the motor. JWT kind of went for the fast spooling turbos, but when it comes down to it, I believe both kits use a similar turbo with roughly the same turbine side, with different compressor housings. Both APS and JWT use water cooled ball bearing turbos. I personally think APS is the superior of the two kits, based on design and things like the fuel system, oil pan etc.

Good luck

dank311

iTrader: (8)

Ok, Let me see if I got this straight....

Greddy TT:
Mitsubishi TD06-18G
Oil cooled only
If its not ball bearing..its just conventional sleeve type?
Powerband: good low-mid range, as well as top end???
Spool: starts spooling approx. 2800, full boost:3200rpm???
Will hold approx 700whp??

Turbonetics:
TN 60-1
Oil cooled only
Twin Ball Bearing ?? or Sleeve??
Powerband: lacks low end, but strong mid-high end
Spool: starts spooling approx. 3000, full boost by 3500rpm ?
Will hold approx 500whp??

JWT TT:
GT28's ??
Oil and Water Cooled
Twin Ball Bearing
Powerband: Strong low-mid range, do these turbos start to die off on the tope end?
Spool: Boost starts building approx 2400rpm, full boost by 3000rpm?
Power limits approx 500rwhp?

From my research, it seems that that is where these turbos stand. But, since my information is from reading and hearsay, I would like for the owners/installers and experienced ones to correct me anywhere I was wrond..especially on the powerband and spool characteristics..

For me, I thinnk the TN kit is looking like a great kit. I dont want anymore than 550whp...maybe even 500. I am looking to run this kit for a while or until it blows, and then build the motor. But, I am looking for a easily serviceable kit, and well matched powerband for drifting/autox/road race..
I usually do drift events once a month, and other events whenever I get a chance, and money for tires

dank311

iTrader: (8)

For the TN kit, is there any turbo I can use that will get high 400's, low 500's that will spool close to the TT kits out there..Maybe using a GT28, or GT35 garret turbo in place of the TN 60-1? Im just really worried about dropping out of boost while drifting on the TN kit. I have heard a wide range of spool up characteristics for this kit, but I also know that this is also influenced by boost controllers, tune, piping/exhaust, wastegates, etc...So, I will take the neccessary steps it takes to get spool early as possible.

I guess the questions I am trying to ask is...is it possible for me to make the TN kit get close to my HP goals (450-550) while retaining a spool up and powerband characteristics of a TT..even if I need to get a different turbo.

dank311

iTrader: (8)

one more thing...heh
Does anyone have any videos that have a good shot of the tach while driving any of the turbo kits. I would like to see the RPM and speedometer, and how they react with the turbos on.
Also, can anyone post any dynos (especially TN dynos) that are in the 400-450 hp range. I would like to compare each kit and take a look at the power under curve.
I really wish I could just drive a ST, and a TT...this would be soo much easier..

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

I have some. The first vid is with 10psi which is possible with a stock block and the second vid is @ 16psi. I wouldn't take it that far on the stock block.

Also keep in mind that I have almost every possible mod....cams, headwork, 3" true dual exhaust, custom dump tubes, etc.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/A...729ECD57DA.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/B...62AFB84D5A.htm

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

the TN kit is dual ceramic ball bearing, if you have looked at any info on it you'd know this. Also it's good for about 550-575whp. There shouldn't be any need to go to a different turbo for that goal. And honestly, the greddy turbos didn't seem to hit full boost as fast as my TN single. You've got to remember the greddy turbos are fairly large, non-ball bearing, and are running off essentially 1.75L of exhaust gases......so it's going to take them a tad longer to spool.

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

[QUOTE]Was this off your butt dyno or did you conduct tests to see which kit spools faster?

This would be true for all TT kits. Are you saying that the TN kits spools faster than all the TT kits?

Ball bearing are over rated. I hit full boost at 3700 rpms with my ancient old turbo design.

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

this was numerous runs vs. a greddy TT g35c. He and I both concurred that his spool started sooner but I hit full boost faster.

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

How would you know when he hits full boost if you're driving your car and how would he know when you hit full boost if he is driving his car?

From what I have seen posted the TN ST hits full boost just past 4000 rpms maybe 4200rpm. That is several hundred rpms more than when I hit full boost.

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

where have you seen this?

I've got full boost no later than 3800rpm.

and when you drive right next to a car from 0-100mph, 4+ times, and can intimately hear the spool of both vehicles to compare (yes you can, it's pretty surprising and quite cool, too. If the guy wasn't on vacation in Alaska I'd ask him to post He has a black g35 too )

dank311

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the vids. You have got a great setup! Must be nuts on 16lbs..

dank311

iTrader: (8)

Cimmike, I was about 99% sure that the TN turbo was a ceramic ball bearing. I just wanted to confirm. Its good to hear that your full boost kicks in faster, but i guess this has alot to do with the whole setup and tune as well.
BTW, who wins in a race, you or the G?

dank311

iTrader: (8)

I would still like to compare dynos (even though its hard to make a TRUE comparison with dynos) to take a closer look at the power curves.
Im trying to find out what is going to suite my tracking and driving habits.

Any comments on how the ST would compare to the TT in track events? mostly drive and road races..

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

I seen Sharif post that while tuning the TN ST he sees full boost at 4200. I believe Alberto posted the same thing.


Then it's pretty close to where mine hits full boost.....3700rpms.

Well I wouldn't determine another car hits full boost sooner than mine because of how it sounds when I drive next to it.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Not true. TN originally stated the 60-1 could support that power, but it cannot. AAM tuned a built block TN car for Modified mag, and at around 14psi it was done. Results? 460whp and 530+ft/lbs.

To the OP-there is no realistic way to have a single turbo (unless very small) spool like twins AND maintain good powerband. If you can wait an extra 200-500rpm's for full boost the ST's are great for the money-the midrange is awesome with the TN kit.

Edit-with an 80mm exhaust (slightly larger than 3") I see full boost before 4000rpm, never as low as 3500rpm's though its 3700-3900rpm's and Im at my 9.5-10psi....

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

then there's a restriction in the exhaust to make that kind of tq and a low hp number, or something going on. 70 more ft-lbs than hp doesn't seem like something's right.

w/cams and proper tuning, I'd say it's definitely possible. Just because AAM did that doesn't mean that's the end all number. And 14psi is only 6psi higher than the stock kit runs. I'd push it to about 20-23psi.