Run With the Ferrari 360...CONT
07-05-2006, 07:46 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by USN HM 350Z
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I was simply pointing out the fact that you have a $800.00 labor rate to install coil overs. pretty funny since that is an hour and a half job.
I was simply pointing out the fact that you have a $800.00 labor rate to install coil overs. pretty funny since that is an hour and a half job.
To install the FLEX system properly it is about 3-4 hours. That doen't include a corner balance or an alignment. Last time I checked at our local porsche dealer (the only ones qualified to do such in this area), a corner balance w/ alignment is $500 or so.
You did corner balance your coilover, didn't you?
I don't understand how people can spend $30-$40G on a very nice G or Z and expect to pay civic/integra prices on parts and labor. It's very puzzling. In Japan, enthusiasts expect to spend just as much on the upgrade path as in the cost of the vehicle. That's Japan and this is America, I know. That's why my entire neighborhood had to have new siding put on all the homes because the low bidder contractor cut corners.
Last edited by USED; 07-05-2006 at 08:50 AM.
07-05-2006, 07:48 AM
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[QUOTE=USN HM 350Z]someone has some anger issues. You should seek counseling, for real.
No anger issues genius, just want someone to answer a simple question. an hour and a half to install coilovers huh? like i said, i don't want industry prices, i want prices that the normal person would see in the course of normal business. since you brought it up, i forgot about the EDFC, sways and strut brace. i guess you are gonna tell me those will take a half an hour, right?
you have the brakespro's website in your sig, i didn't say that's what you had on your ride. and finally big guy, this thread has never been about mike's car, which is a very nice ride. it's been about vrt putting together a 350z twin turbo track car that can beat a modena for around 20,000 grand.
peace
No anger issues genius, just want someone to answer a simple question. an hour and a half to install coilovers huh? like i said, i don't want industry prices, i want prices that the normal person would see in the course of normal business. since you brought it up, i forgot about the EDFC, sways and strut brace. i guess you are gonna tell me those will take a half an hour, right?
you have the brakespro's website in your sig, i didn't say that's what you had on your ride. and finally big guy, this thread has never been about mike's car, which is a very nice ride. it's been about vrt putting together a 350z twin turbo track car that can beat a modena for around 20,000 grand. peace
Last edited by Bullitproof; 07-05-2006 at 07:52 AM.
07-05-2006, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by USED
Hold on there tiger. Be reasonable. Where in this country are you getting a coilover system installed for 1.5hr? Walmart? Jiffylube? Mineke? You would trust that install?
To install the FLEX system properly it is about 3-4 hours. That doen't include a corner balance or an alignment. Last time I checked at our local porsche dealer (the only ones qualified to do such in this area), a corner balance w/ alignment is $500 or so.
You did corner balance your coilover, didn't you?
I don't understand how people can spend $30-$40G on a very nice G or Z and expect to pay civic/integra prices on parts and labor. It's very puzzling. In Japan, enthusiasts expect to spend just as much on the upgrade path as in the cost of the vehicle. That's Japan and this is America, I know. That's why my entire neighborhood had to have new siding put on all the homes because the low bidder contractor cut corners.
To install the FLEX system properly it is about 3-4 hours. That doen't include a corner balance or an alignment. Last time I checked at our local porsche dealer (the only ones qualified to do such in this area), a corner balance w/ alignment is $500 or so.
You did corner balance your coilover, didn't you?
I don't understand how people can spend $30-$40G on a very nice G or Z and expect to pay civic/integra prices on parts and labor. It's very puzzling. In Japan, enthusiasts expect to spend just as much on the upgrade path as in the cost of the vehicle. That's Japan and this is America, I know. That's why my entire neighborhood had to have new siding put on all the homes because the low bidder contractor cut corners.
07-05-2006, 10:31 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by esfand
which Z were you drivin and which porsche did you pass???????
Sorry for the Delay on the Parts List...
We have two cars on the dyno today. One at JWT and one at the Dynoshop.
I will get the list up later.
Thanks for the patience.
Fun Exchange. Sure USED and I will be great friends after I show him a $20k upgraded Z can compete with a 360 Ferrari.
M
07-05-2006, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mraturbo
What up Esfand?
Sorry for the Delay on the Parts List...
We have two cars on the dyno today. One at JWT and one at the Dynoshop.
I will get the list up later.
Thanks for the patience.
Fun Exchange. Sure USED and I will be great friends after I show him a $20k upgraded Z can compete with a 360 Ferrari.
M
Sorry for the Delay on the Parts List...
We have two cars on the dyno today. One at JWT and one at the Dynoshop.
I will get the list up later.
Thanks for the patience.
Fun Exchange. Sure USED and I will be great friends after I show him a $20k upgraded Z can compete with a 360 Ferrari.
M
oh yeah, don't forget to add labor into the equation.
07-05-2006, 01:31 PM
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This is interesting... Not being a mechanic, I had all of my work done by a shop, and needless to say, I'm way over the $20k mark... I've had quite a bit of work done, and still, no built motor... For someone to hit a 20 large budget without doing any supporting mods (suspension, brakes, drivetrain, etc), I just don't see it happening.
I would say that building a high HP car is do-able. But only when factoring in a strong FI system on the stock motor. I'm thinking that the list would include the following:
Twin Turbo (probably JWT since that's what VRT is know for)
Fuel System (return MAYBE with 440cc injectors)
Upper Plenum
Full Exhaust w/ High-Flow Cats
Piggy back EMU
Electronics (Boost Controller and Gauges)
Anything else would tip the scale over the $20k mark. They might be able to throw in a JWT clutch or other low price make. But in any case, I don't see it happening for $20k. Too many things need to be thought out and accounted for when your mark is a high performance exotic.
Brakes, suspension, a GOOD clutch, performance radiator, oil cooler, and yes... a built motor are just required to hand a high end car it's a$$ on a track.
As always, this is just my $.02. I don't profess to be an expert, and that's why I paid to have my car built by a quality shop. I'm sure VRT will have a stong package in any case.
I would say that building a high HP car is do-able. But only when factoring in a strong FI system on the stock motor. I'm thinking that the list would include the following:
Twin Turbo (probably JWT since that's what VRT is know for)
Fuel System (return MAYBE with 440cc injectors)
Upper Plenum
Full Exhaust w/ High-Flow Cats
Piggy back EMU
Electronics (Boost Controller and Gauges)
Anything else would tip the scale over the $20k mark. They might be able to throw in a JWT clutch or other low price make. But in any case, I don't see it happening for $20k. Too many things need to be thought out and accounted for when your mark is a high performance exotic.
Brakes, suspension, a GOOD clutch, performance radiator, oil cooler, and yes... a built motor are just required to hand a high end car it's a$$ on a track.
As always, this is just my $.02. I don't profess to be an expert, and that's why I paid to have my car built by a quality shop. I'm sure VRT will have a stong package in any case.
07-06-2006, 02:20 AM
#69
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Sorry For Any Delays
Here is What VRT Will Offer USED for his $20k in 350Z Modifications
* Obviously this doesn't include any applicable tax.
* As mentioned, No Turbo Kits in California are CARB as of yet so this build is for OFF ROAD PURPOSES ONLY.
FI
JWT Twin Turbo Kit/ Out of the Box
-BB530 Turbos
-Inter-cooler for the 350Z
-Split Second Air/Fuel/Timing control
-Fuel/Boost Pressure Regulator included
-Waste Gate Springs Adjusted to 8.5 PSI
Clutch and Flywheel
* If Needed ONLY...
JWT Clutch and Flywheel
Brakes
Ap Racing
6 Piston Fr/14.25 and 4 Piston Rear
Rear End
Stock 350Z Rear End - Assuming this isn't a One Wheeled Wonder!
Suspension
VRT Custom Coil Over for the 350Z
Stillen Adjustable Sways Front and Rear
VRT Front Camber for the 350Z/G35
VRT Rear Camber/Toe
Wheels
Enkei NT03 +M 18” MAT track wheels 9.5”F/10.5”R
Tires
Nitto NT-01 275/35 F and 315/30R or
Kumho ECSTA V710 285/18/30 and 315/18/30
* 350z and 360 Ferrari are to run on the EXACT SAME TIRE Brand and Size...
Cooling
VRT Upgraded Radiator and Oil Cooler
* High capacity aluminum radiator
Nismo 1.3 Bar Radiator Cap
ECU
JWT ECU Re-flash for 7300 Rev and Top Speed
Boost Controller
None - Springs set to 8.5 PSI
Gauges
No Gauges Necessary, car will be tuned for 8.5 PSI and Air/Fuel Ratios in healthy 11s
Other
Light Weight Pully System
Profit and Labor
Yes, we have calculated a Profit that makes sense for VRT. Trust me, would love to put at least a built bottom-end (rods and pistons) to boost 12 PSI yet then it wouldn't make sense to even VRT at $20k (NO PROFIT).
LOL...Would make this easier for sure to Beat the Ferrari 360 to simply turn up the boost EVEN on the track with Race Fuel (100 Octane Unleaded would be fine) however would like to keep the power reasonable, - what the hell. We have raced many Non-Built motor on the track on racefuel with great results at 10 PSI, that will be a decision for race day. We are having fun at any rate.
Note: We do not ship the JWT kits to other shops so what their or your estimated cost for install doesn't apply. It is what VRT can do it for! USED said a $20k budget and I said, send the car and he will get what he wanted, a Z that can beat a 360 on the road race track. Please don't waste my time about there is NO WAY WE CAN DO THIS FOR THIS PRICE. VRT will do this for this price! If you have any doubts, send the car and the $20k and let's get the show on the road - No hesitation from VRT.
Tuned Power Expectations
410 WHP and 400 Ft/Lbs Torque
Special Notes
Legal Disclaimer (Remember we are on a Public Forum)
USED Will provide a 350Z to VRT. We will build him the car with $20k (not including applicable tax) in modifications for the purpose of Racing Off-Road. VRT contends these modifications will allow the Z with a QUALIFIED driver the ability to Compete and Yes (We will see - Beat) a Ferrari 360 Modena (With Same Tires) in a 20 Lap Timed Trial Event at Willow Springs Raceway. Best Time Wins for the 20 laps! In the end, We can ONLY hope for the best. I am just stoked that Nissan has created an Fm Platform with the VQ that can even compete at any Supercar level with a reasonable amount of modifications. You might say, How Is $20k reasonable when you can buy the car used for almost $20k? And you put $20k into it.
Well Precisely, for an estimated $40k+, you have a legit Sports Car Road or Track that can compete with cars in price ranges from $75-$200k! Not bad as far as VRT is concerned.
Here is What VRT Will Offer USED for his $20k in 350Z Modifications
* Obviously this doesn't include any applicable tax.
* As mentioned, No Turbo Kits in California are CARB as of yet so this build is for OFF ROAD PURPOSES ONLY.
FI
JWT Twin Turbo Kit/ Out of the Box
-BB530 Turbos
-Inter-cooler for the 350Z
-Split Second Air/Fuel/Timing control
-Fuel/Boost Pressure Regulator included
-Waste Gate Springs Adjusted to 8.5 PSI
Clutch and Flywheel
* If Needed ONLY...
JWT Clutch and Flywheel
Brakes
Ap Racing
6 Piston Fr/14.25 and 4 Piston Rear
Rear End
Stock 350Z Rear End - Assuming this isn't a One Wheeled Wonder!
Suspension
VRT Custom Coil Over for the 350Z
Stillen Adjustable Sways Front and Rear
VRT Front Camber for the 350Z/G35
VRT Rear Camber/Toe
Wheels
Enkei NT03 +M 18” MAT track wheels 9.5”F/10.5”R
Tires
Nitto NT-01 275/35 F and 315/30R or
Kumho ECSTA V710 285/18/30 and 315/18/30
* 350z and 360 Ferrari are to run on the EXACT SAME TIRE Brand and Size...
Cooling
VRT Upgraded Radiator and Oil Cooler
* High capacity aluminum radiator
Nismo 1.3 Bar Radiator Cap
ECU
JWT ECU Re-flash for 7300 Rev and Top Speed
Boost Controller
None - Springs set to 8.5 PSI
Gauges
No Gauges Necessary, car will be tuned for 8.5 PSI and Air/Fuel Ratios in healthy 11s
Other
Light Weight Pully System
Profit and Labor
Yes, we have calculated a Profit that makes sense for VRT. Trust me, would love to put at least a built bottom-end (rods and pistons) to boost 12 PSI yet then it wouldn't make sense to even VRT at $20k (NO PROFIT).
LOL...Would make this easier for sure to Beat the Ferrari 360 to simply turn up the boost EVEN on the track with Race Fuel (100 Octane Unleaded would be fine) however would like to keep the power reasonable, - what the hell. We have raced many Non-Built motor on the track on racefuel with great results at 10 PSI, that will be a decision for race day. We are having fun at any rate.
Note: We do not ship the JWT kits to other shops so what their or your estimated cost for install doesn't apply. It is what VRT can do it for! USED said a $20k budget and I said, send the car and he will get what he wanted, a Z that can beat a 360 on the road race track. Please don't waste my time about there is NO WAY WE CAN DO THIS FOR THIS PRICE. VRT will do this for this price! If you have any doubts, send the car and the $20k and let's get the show on the road - No hesitation from VRT.
Tuned Power Expectations
410 WHP and 400 Ft/Lbs Torque
Special Notes
Legal Disclaimer (Remember we are on a Public Forum)
USED Will provide a 350Z to VRT. We will build him the car with $20k (not including applicable tax) in modifications for the purpose of Racing Off-Road. VRT contends these modifications will allow the Z with a QUALIFIED driver the ability to Compete and Yes (We will see - Beat) a Ferrari 360 Modena (With Same Tires) in a 20 Lap Timed Trial Event at Willow Springs Raceway. Best Time Wins for the 20 laps! In the end, We can ONLY hope for the best. I am just stoked that Nissan has created an Fm Platform with the VQ that can even compete at any Supercar level with a reasonable amount of modifications. You might say, How Is $20k reasonable when you can buy the car used for almost $20k? And you put $20k into it.
Well Precisely, for an estimated $40k+, you have a legit Sports Car Road or Track that can compete with cars in price ranges from $75-$200k! Not bad as far as VRT is concerned.
Last edited by mraturbo; 07-06-2006 at 08:25 AM.
07-06-2006, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by doug
No gauges + no built motor = No Thank You
Danny
07-06-2006, 08:26 AM
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What do you need gauges for when you have it tuned and only run 8.5 PSI. If you are not going to turn up the boost then you do not need to worry about gauges. Thats my opinoin, and I know they have done other cars this way.
If you are not building the engine then you do not need gauges or the ability to play with you boost, you just need to have a great tune.
If you are not building the engine then you do not need gauges or the ability to play with you boost, you just need to have a great tune.
07-06-2006, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by dscheers
How many people start out with a built motor ? Now the gauges, you have a point there, but you can add the Zeitronix for about 800$ and get Boost, EGT and AFR.
Danny
Danny
07-06-2006, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Navygolf13
What do you need gauges for when you have it tuned and only run 8.5 PSI. If you are not going to turn up the boost then you do not need to worry about gauges. Thats my opinoin, and I know they have done other cars this way.
If you are not building the engine then you do not need gauges or the ability to play with you boost, you just need to have a great tune.
If you are not building the engine then you do not need gauges or the ability to play with you boost, you just need to have a great tune.
Do you even realize what your saying? Your being absurd.
Without engine monitoring, you have no idea of what is going on at any time. I don't believe you would feel the same about your car.Factory FI is a different story. Cars run extremely rich under boost. The engines are designed for a lot of forgiveness. There are other failsafe protocols on board. Aftermarket FI (none the less on the stock engine) do not have these provisions, unless you have UTEC/AEM/UNICHIP (unsure about split second) have a boost cut feature. But that is not the only thing that can cause a system malfunction. Fuel pressure can drop. Oil pressure can drop. You could get a tank of bad gas. These things happen.
You agree with me. I know you do.
Last edited by USED; 07-06-2006 at 08:52 AM.
07-06-2006, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Navygolf13
What do you need gauges for when you have it tuned and only run 8.5 PSI. If you are not going to turn up the boost then you do not need to worry about gauges. Thats my opinoin, and I know they have done other cars this way.
If you are not building the engine then you do not need gauges or the ability to play with you boost, you just need to have a great tune.
If you are not building the engine then you do not need gauges or the ability to play with you boost, you just need to have a great tune.
Rob here...Turbonetics Z dude. Don't take this as an attack as its not intended that way AT ALL. That being said gauges are critical for monitoring. Sure having a good solid tune that is dyno verified and everything is great. What happens when the wastegate signal line melts? Or an oil line starts leaking? Or you lose an injector mid track? All of these are reasons to have gauges. It won't be the first time I've heard of the fuel pressure dropping due to a faulty seal somewhere. Fuel pressure drops, injector flow drops, motor runs lean, BOOM. Gauges are MANDATORY (or some other form of real time monitoring).
07-06-2006, 10:55 AM
#80
Man, I have been away from the forums for too long lol. This sounds exciting and that video was fun to watch. I really need to get off of my lazy *** and get my car back out on the track.
I am very interested to see how this turns out. I have never even sat in a Ferrari so I don't have enough knowledge to make my own educated decision, but it wouldn't suprise me if VRT came out on top. And as for the price range, remembering what I paid for all the crap I had them do on my car it is very possible.
I am very interested to see how this turns out. I have never even sat in a Ferrari so I don't have enough knowledge to make my own educated decision, but it wouldn't suprise me if VRT came out on top. And as for the price range, remembering what I paid for all the crap I had them do on my car it is very possible.