APS Intercooled Single Turbo Kit
Originally Posted by taurran
You think you would know by know not to open this can of worms... I was hoping this thread would go without somoene stirring the muck. 
All I posted were facts. Go spread your BS somewhere else. I'll check back when I get back from the bank, need to make another deposit
Originally Posted by Zivman
All I posted were facts. Go spread your BS somewhere else. I'll check back when I get back from the bank, need to make another deposit
Hopefully a few folks here will actually appreciate a thread free of arguments.
Last edited by taurran; Jul 28, 2006 at 04:40 AM.
This thread was going in a good direction for the OP. I hope it doesn't fall apart. Taurran I'm sure the OP will appreceiate what you did I do. Not every thread has to be a fight.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,390
Likes: 101
From: Spring, TX
I'm looking for a kit that I can install and go. I'm not too worried about tuning as I will run the UTEC w/ TXS wideband. I do like APS coming w/ the extras that a turbo car should have. Also I how the APS is under the car and not sitting in the engine bay. PLus I just perfer APS over TN.
Please don't let this stop giving respectful opinions though. I love to hear all that I can.
Please don't let this stop giving respectful opinions though. I love to hear all that I can.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,390
Likes: 101
From: Spring, TX
I'm pretty much sold on the APS kit. Just can't beat $4900: http://www.injectedperformance.com/V...t.aspx?ID=1660
Question: Do I need to look into clutch/drivetrain upgrades? I know I'll upgrade the exhaust but do I need a 3" - 3.5" piping? Thanks again guys!
Question: Do I need to look into clutch/drivetrain upgrades? I know I'll upgrade the exhaust but do I need a 3" - 3.5" piping? Thanks again guys!
2.5" piping is adequate. You should upgrade the clutch at some point. Better to do it all at once. Not sure how far you want to go with the kit,but the stock clutch cannot accomodate the high tq many of the FI kits are putting out.
Originally Posted by Robert_K
I'm pretty much sold on the APS kit. Just can't beat $4900: http://www.injectedperformance.com/V...t.aspx?ID=1660
Question: Do I need to look into clutch/drivetrain upgrades? I know I'll upgrade the exhaust but do I need a 3" - 3.5" piping? Thanks again guys!
Question: Do I need to look into clutch/drivetrain upgrades? I know I'll upgrade the exhaust but do I need a 3" - 3.5" piping? Thanks again guys!
Originally Posted by synth19
2.5" piping is adequate. You should upgrade the clutch at some point. Better to do it all at once. Not sure how far you want to go with the kit,but the stock clutch cannot accomodate the high tq many of the FI kits are putting out.
was told the stock cluch was fine 'for a SHORT while!' LOL you should do it all at once to save your self extra install $$ later.
Originally Posted by AParshall04
i dont know why anyone hasn't addressed this yet, but why do you want the APS ST kit over the Turbonetics ST kit. Personally i think the Turbonetics kit is better. If you want stock boost it comes with the flash. If you want more than stock boost it's available in a tuner version.
As I stated in another post, debating which kit is better is like debating what football team is better. Everyone can argue which team is better and why AND have a good argument. It really solves nothing. I think what folks should do, and some have done this, is post "Hey I have XXX kit and here is what I love and what I don't love about it." so everyone can get a great opinion.
This is just my
and PLEASE in no way is a flame or to bash anything or anyone, it is just my opinion towards the betterment of the community.
I am in the same boat. APS or TN and I am looking for the most hassle-free-daily driver-reliable set up lol. I drive my car about 2k a month which is a lot and I have a G. I wanted to hear some opinions from people who have had experience with these kits.. keep them coming!
No clue about the sedan. If you get the aps st, look at doiung the clutch at the same time. there is a crossover pipe under there that is a pain to get off if you have to do the clutch later. it's not impossible, just a little harder to do.
Originally Posted by taurran
You know what? I posted a long response but I won't even fuel another long drawn out a debate, even through it seems there are instigators in this thread that would like to have it otherwise...
Hopefully a few folks here will actually appreciate a thread free of arguments.
Hopefully a few folks here will actually appreciate a thread free of arguments.
Originally Posted by taurran
Turbonetics - Warlboro 255 fuel pump, Denso core 380cc injectors APS - Pseudo return style system (not a full return off fuel rails)
APS is still a better, complete fuel system with rising FPR, fuel pump, injectors, etc.
Turbonetics - High placed turbo allows for efficient cycling of oil.
APS - Low placement means oil pumped out of turbo by a scavenging bilge pump.
WTF?? efficient oil cycling??? I thought the high placement was for the bling factor
Or maybe so numerious people could have AC issues due to having to run the exhaust in such a tight space past the AC hoses
Scavenge pump is used by many applications without issue or concern. You need to worry about the scavenging pump as much as you would your engine's oil sender unit.
Turbonetics - Holds boost to redline (I know the comeback to this one, all overboost issues are FIXED so give it up
) APS - Tapering boost to redline.
No comback to this. The install I did held 9.5 lbs to redline out of box. That said, check out a lot of other applications and boost taper, many taper. What does this have to do with anything really? APS still makes plenty of power with plenty of potential power. This still doesn't address the fact that the TN setup is withOUT boost control. Essentially your EMS is running blind with the TN setup
Turbonetics - In-house manufactured and calibrated ceramic ball bearing turbocharger.
APS - APS built turbo with Garrett magazine misleadingly labeled as a "Garrett turbocharger".
I don't know how this is even worth the type. Are you questioning the quality of the APS turbo??
Turbonetics - High placed turbo means no clearance issues.
APS - Don't bother lowering your car unless you like scraping turbo piping.
BS - sure, some have scraped, but I would take a scrape now and again over my AC going out, my maf maxing out, or popping my motor
Turbonetics - Easily expandable by announced Stage systems, Water/Meth kit, and also fully customizable by request.
APS - What you see is what you get, that's it.
did you not read my post? Easy to add water meth to the APS setup merely add the meth setup of your choice and add another unichip module to control it. You then would have boost, fuel, timing, and meth injection all included in a single EMS. To that note, water/meth injection isn't something I feel is a necessity on a boosted car. Money is better spent elsewhere IMO than on a water/meth injection setup.
And your comment about stages. I think the offerings by APS more than cover TN stages APS ST -> APS TT -> APS X-TT Go ahead and pick your setup
Turbonetics - Awesome black chrome piping in engine bay, polished turbo shows up top.
APS - Is that the new Injen Intake???
And You now bring up the real reason for the turbo placement. Sad to see a company put asethics (all be it still subjective to 'like' being able to see the turbo) over functionality. I am sorry you don't care for the look of the APS setup. All piping on the APS setup is polished, with the welds ground and polished out.
Turbonetics - 1 year no-hassle warranty on all parts.
APS - Maybe, if you're lucky.
I haven't had issues when I needed parts. Had more than acceptable turnaround on parts I needed. Ever watch the movie Tommy Boy? "I can take a dump in a box and stamp it gauranteed" I am not implying anything, just saying
Turbonetics - Excellent Customer Service.
APS - What's customer service, mate?.
Well, I have no problem contacting my APS dealer when I am in need of service. I think this issue is a bit played out and really is a situation that should be on a case by case basis. I have read more than one thread about TN owners having customer service issues, so excellent doesn't apply to everyone
APS is still a better, complete fuel system with rising FPR, fuel pump, injectors, etc.
Turbonetics - High placed turbo allows for efficient cycling of oil.
APS - Low placement means oil pumped out of turbo by a scavenging bilge pump.
WTF?? efficient oil cycling??? I thought the high placement was for the bling factor
Or maybe so numerious people could have AC issues due to having to run the exhaust in such a tight space past the AC hoses Scavenge pump is used by many applications without issue or concern. You need to worry about the scavenging pump as much as you would your engine's oil sender unit.
Turbonetics - Holds boost to redline (I know the comeback to this one, all overboost issues are FIXED so give it up
) APS - Tapering boost to redline.No comback to this. The install I did held 9.5 lbs to redline out of box. That said, check out a lot of other applications and boost taper, many taper. What does this have to do with anything really? APS still makes plenty of power with plenty of potential power. This still doesn't address the fact that the TN setup is withOUT boost control. Essentially your EMS is running blind with the TN setup
Turbonetics - In-house manufactured and calibrated ceramic ball bearing turbocharger.
APS - APS built turbo with Garrett magazine misleadingly labeled as a "Garrett turbocharger".
I don't know how this is even worth the type. Are you questioning the quality of the APS turbo??
Turbonetics - High placed turbo means no clearance issues.
APS - Don't bother lowering your car unless you like scraping turbo piping.
BS - sure, some have scraped, but I would take a scrape now and again over my AC going out, my maf maxing out, or popping my motor
Turbonetics - Easily expandable by announced Stage systems, Water/Meth kit, and also fully customizable by request.
APS - What you see is what you get, that's it.
did you not read my post? Easy to add water meth to the APS setup merely add the meth setup of your choice and add another unichip module to control it. You then would have boost, fuel, timing, and meth injection all included in a single EMS. To that note, water/meth injection isn't something I feel is a necessity on a boosted car. Money is better spent elsewhere IMO than on a water/meth injection setup.
And your comment about stages. I think the offerings by APS more than cover TN stages APS ST -> APS TT -> APS X-TT Go ahead and pick your setup
Turbonetics - Awesome black chrome piping in engine bay, polished turbo shows up top.
APS - Is that the new Injen Intake???
And You now bring up the real reason for the turbo placement. Sad to see a company put asethics (all be it still subjective to 'like' being able to see the turbo) over functionality. I am sorry you don't care for the look of the APS setup. All piping on the APS setup is polished, with the welds ground and polished out.
Turbonetics - 1 year no-hassle warranty on all parts.
APS - Maybe, if you're lucky.
I haven't had issues when I needed parts. Had more than acceptable turnaround on parts I needed. Ever watch the movie Tommy Boy? "I can take a dump in a box and stamp it gauranteed" I am not implying anything, just saying
Turbonetics - Excellent Customer Service.
APS - What's customer service, mate?.
Well, I have no problem contacting my APS dealer when I am in need of service. I think this issue is a bit played out and really is a situation that should be on a case by case basis. I have read more than one thread about TN owners having customer service issues, so excellent doesn't apply to everyone
Originally Posted by Bullitproof
No clue about the sedan. If you get the aps st, look at doiung the clutch at the same time. there is a crossover pipe under there that is a pain to get off if you have to do the clutch later. it's not impossible, just a little harder to do.
I just had a UR flywheel and JWT clutch installed with my new tranny so I am good there. Thanks!
Always gotta have the last laugh, eh? Well at least its staying civil.
Just as a follow up to some of the above info -
- Yes there have been many issues with the rerouted AC line on the Turbonetics kit. These are due to imperfect installations where the line has been routed improperly. I'll agree that it is tough to get it right, but it can be done. Mine and others have retained icy cold AC systems for over a year now.
- Tapering boost - best to ask Tig on this. He's got quite a story.
- I'm not questioning the quality of the APS Turbo, only that it's marketed as a Garrett turbo in the past, which isn't quite the truth.
- I don't think the Turbonetics turbo placement is all about aesthetics. All of the other custom ST kits I've seen on the market have had the turbo in the engine bay as well, it is the most logical place for it. APS took the unorthodox route with their turbo placement and oil circ system. Both placements work, both have their ups and downs.
In the end, I have never stated that I dislike APS. I'm a fan of their TT setups, in fact.
I think we can all agree that both of the ST kits on the market are certainly capable in their own right. Both were designed from a different prospective and with slightly different goals in mind. They both achieve these goals. I think that for 90% of the people here, either would suit their needs.
The main problem is that people on the forums tend to blame a KIT for all of their problems rather than their own negligence.
Just as a follow up to some of the above info -
- Yes there have been many issues with the rerouted AC line on the Turbonetics kit. These are due to imperfect installations where the line has been routed improperly. I'll agree that it is tough to get it right, but it can be done. Mine and others have retained icy cold AC systems for over a year now.
- Tapering boost - best to ask Tig on this. He's got quite a story.
- I'm not questioning the quality of the APS Turbo, only that it's marketed as a Garrett turbo in the past, which isn't quite the truth.
- I don't think the Turbonetics turbo placement is all about aesthetics. All of the other custom ST kits I've seen on the market have had the turbo in the engine bay as well, it is the most logical place for it. APS took the unorthodox route with their turbo placement and oil circ system. Both placements work, both have their ups and downs.
In the end, I have never stated that I dislike APS. I'm a fan of their TT setups, in fact.
I think we can all agree that both of the ST kits on the market are certainly capable in their own right. Both were designed from a different prospective and with slightly different goals in mind. They both achieve these goals. I think that for 90% of the people here, either would suit their needs.
The main problem is that people on the forums tend to blame a KIT for all of their problems rather than their own negligence.
Originally Posted by taurran
I think we can all agree that both of the ST kits on the market are certainly capable in their own right. Both were designed from a different prospective and with slightly different goals in mind. They both achieve these goals. I think that for 90% of the people here, either would suit their needs.
The main problem is that people on the forums tend to blame a KIT for all of their problems rather than their own negligence.
Well put. To each their own...
I'll give you what I can from experience... I've had my car for 2 years 2 months... The turbo has been on for over a year. I have 11000 miles.. 1,500 turbo. That isn't because this isn't a daily driver... it is because my turbo kit has been a complete pain in the ***... and it is an APS.
I think if I didn't have gremlins living in my god damn car that the APS ST with the APS ST exhaust and (DEF) a clutch upgrade is the way to go. But it is not fool proof, it is not "complete out of the box" (in my opinion) and it can be a royal pain in the ***. And by the way, I have what I consider to be the best shop in the area working on the car and they are an authorized APS dealer and unichip tuner. These guys have worked on plenty of Z's and are tuning magicians (My car's numbers are beastly... when the hardware isn't fukin up).
APS has been ... lets say... very unhelpful. I've sent emails personally that have never been responded to. To the best of my knoweldge, the guys at the shop who have tried to deal with APS have gotten a pretty much straight forward "You're on your own" response.
I think APS is the best kit out there if you want to get good power without changing internals. I feel the TT kits are total over kill if you aren't going to go forged. But don't gain a false sense of "this is bullet proof". You are adding an aftermarket turbo to a car.. remember. It can get VERY expensive and VERY frustrating VERY quickly...
PM me if you want details. Even with all of this... I've been in other APS STs and I've been in TN ST's... I prefer the APS's... that aren't mine
~Josh
I think if I didn't have gremlins living in my god damn car that the APS ST with the APS ST exhaust and (DEF) a clutch upgrade is the way to go. But it is not fool proof, it is not "complete out of the box" (in my opinion) and it can be a royal pain in the ***. And by the way, I have what I consider to be the best shop in the area working on the car and they are an authorized APS dealer and unichip tuner. These guys have worked on plenty of Z's and are tuning magicians (My car's numbers are beastly... when the hardware isn't fukin up).
APS has been ... lets say... very unhelpful. I've sent emails personally that have never been responded to. To the best of my knoweldge, the guys at the shop who have tried to deal with APS have gotten a pretty much straight forward "You're on your own" response.
I think APS is the best kit out there if you want to get good power without changing internals. I feel the TT kits are total over kill if you aren't going to go forged. But don't gain a false sense of "this is bullet proof". You are adding an aftermarket turbo to a car.. remember. It can get VERY expensive and VERY frustrating VERY quickly...
PM me if you want details. Even with all of this... I've been in other APS STs and I've been in TN ST's... I prefer the APS's... that aren't mine
~Josh
Last edited by Jergens; Jul 31, 2006 at 06:59 AM.
APS ST would sure be nice, too bad I got a deal I couldnt refuse on a Vortech 
. If I could get a shop to give me some credit for the Vortech, Id be down in a heartbeat though 
The fluttering BOV would be hard to get used to, but I like the "stealth" approach!
. If I could get a shop to give me some credit for the Vortech, Id be down in a heartbeat though The fluttering BOV would be hard to get used to, but I like the "stealth" approach!
Originally Posted by GMZ
APS ST would sure be nice, too bad I got a deal I couldnt refuse on a Vortech . If I could get a shop to give me some credit for the Vortech, Id be down in a heartbeat though The fluttering BOV would be hard to get used to, but I like the "stealth" approach!
. If I could get a shop to give me some credit for the Vortech, Id be down in a heartbeat though The fluttering BOV would be hard to get used to, but I like the "stealth" approach!
Originally Posted by leeboyNY
I was leaning towards the Vortech until I actually heard the loud noise it makes... Wow! Then I fell in love with turbo spool sound~~
The Vortech BOV aint no punk either! Just cant touch turbo though......