APS Extreme TT kit vs. Greddy TT kit w/ upgraded 20Gs
02-08-2007, 05:59 PM
#61
Banned
iTrader: (24)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by phunk
I wonder whos fuel system they made a "legitmate" 800+hp with - I dont remember them buying any parts from us? 
But we are capable, and have made 800ish whp without any fuel return system at all.... a few times, on a few different Z's and G's. Still going strong.
02-08-2007, 06:17 PM
#62
Originally Posted by WA2GOOD
I know you guys make some great fuel return systems, I have owned one, it is a nice piece (sold it).
But we are capable, and have made 800ish whp without any fuel return system at all.... a few times, on a few different Z's and G's. Still going strong.
But we are capable, and have made 800ish whp without any fuel return system at all.... a few times, on a few different Z's and G's. Still going strong.
02-08-2007, 06:20 PM
#63
Vendor - Former Vendor
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Alberto
Just wanted to share I know of a local shop who installed an SFR kit in a G35. Horrible fitment issues, they had to send various pieces back because they would never fit including the 2 turbos this customer had requesated-as I know they offer different choices.
You are talking about Ultimate Motorsports or something like that in Virginia? Bryan,the owner installed Ashteen's original kits with the small turbos.fitment was tough with that kit so we revamped the kit about two years ago,we started using larger turbos and made the fitment a piece of cake.We rerouted the intake and intercooler piping and just made the kit much better.As a matter of fact, I took Ashteens kit back and sent him out a new kit with the larger turbos and all the revisions.Now what
LOL. But seriously,we know it was tough to fit the orignal kit with the small turbos so we made the neccessary changes.If there is any doubt contact,azzulhair since he instaled his own kit.You can also read here about Kevinapex and his install impressions of the new kit.He is is doing the install himself on jackstands
https://my350z.com/forum/south-west/243476-the-new-set-up-has-begun.html
02-08-2007, 06:36 PM
#64
Vendor - Former Vendor
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the 510 was done with the original kit with small turbos and a conservative tune.Steve's car did have the larger turbos but we were only running 10 psi and he has a fully built automatic which robs alot of power.Steves(Tinman) car will be back here soon so we can get alot more out of it.In the meantime we have a fully built G35 that will be hitting the dyno in the next day or so.And it has Utec,our big turbo kit,intake manifold,engine,exhaust,etc..........So dont worry I will post some dyno results asap.If anyone wants to see the car they can come by and check it out for themselves.Mt car is awlays here too.I give alot of rides and it has
20+k miles on it and made 476WHP on numerous occasions(Miaplaya was there during one of those times) and it is still on the stock motor,stock clutch,stock cams,stock plenum with no spacer,and stock plugs until recently.
Sorry SFR fans, but I'm still not convinced of this kit's superiority.
Here are my reasons:
I have the February 2006 issue of DSport magazine which features the SFR TT G35. This was my first exposure to this kit and I started researching it after I read that article.
-I did not like the idea of mounting the turbos further away and down low, which increases lag and necessitates the use of a Mocal scavenging pump.
-I also have not heard good things about the Split Second EMU.
-The power numbers in that DSport article are unimpressive compared to the SGP customer car here in AZ. The SFR car has a full engine build including Ferrea oversize valves, yet it is making only 452hp & 370ft/lbs at 13PSI of boost. The SGP car does not include oversize valves, yet it is making 550whp & 508ft/lbs at 12PSI. Both cars are running 8.5:1 compression ratio on 91 octane. The SGP car is achieving this with standard Greddy 18G turbos and the superior HKS FCon V-Pro EMU. Here's the link to his thread about his build: https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction/217702-thanks-to-sgp-racing-my-f-i-story.html
-I also went and checked the SFR website again, in case I missed something or a recent update. The turbo system page states 510hp & 469ft/lbs at 13.6PSI. http://www.speedforceracing.com/prod...35turbokit.php I searched the rest of the SFR website and could not find any wheel horsepower or torque numbers that were superior.
I don't doubt that the 60-1 turbos in the SFR kit are capable of making big power. The 18G turbos are also capable of big power when combined with good fuel system upgrades, good engine build, and good engine management. At 12PSI, Brian's car still has a lot of headroom and SGP has cars pushing close to 700whp with the standard 18Gs. Also, SGP's TD06-20G upgrade is supposed to be 1,000whp capable
.
So, I still remain unimpressed and have my doubts about the SFR kit. I appreciate your suggestions and input
, but I was trying to learn more about the APS Extreme kit. I haven't seen much info besides what is listed on the APS website and wanted some real world feedback about this kit and how it compares to the others.
20+k miles on it and made 476WHP on numerous occasions(Miaplaya was there during one of those times) and it is still on the stock motor,stock clutch,stock cams,stock plenum with no spacer,and stock plugs until recently.
Originally Posted by RudeG_v2.0
Sorry SFR fans, but I'm still not convinced of this kit's superiority.Here are my reasons:
I have the February 2006 issue of DSport magazine which features the SFR TT G35. This was my first exposure to this kit and I started researching it after I read that article.
-I did not like the idea of mounting the turbos further away and down low, which increases lag and necessitates the use of a Mocal scavenging pump.
-I also have not heard good things about the Split Second EMU.
-The power numbers in that DSport article are unimpressive compared to the SGP customer car here in AZ. The SFR car has a full engine build including Ferrea oversize valves, yet it is making only 452hp & 370ft/lbs at 13PSI of boost. The SGP car does not include oversize valves, yet it is making 550whp & 508ft/lbs at 12PSI. Both cars are running 8.5:1 compression ratio on 91 octane. The SGP car is achieving this with standard Greddy 18G turbos and the superior HKS FCon V-Pro EMU. Here's the link to his thread about his build: https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction/217702-thanks-to-sgp-racing-my-f-i-story.html
-I also went and checked the SFR website again, in case I missed something or a recent update. The turbo system page states 510hp & 469ft/lbs at 13.6PSI. http://www.speedforceracing.com/prod...35turbokit.php I searched the rest of the SFR website and could not find any wheel horsepower or torque numbers that were superior.
I don't doubt that the 60-1 turbos in the SFR kit are capable of making big power. The 18G turbos are also capable of big power when combined with good fuel system upgrades, good engine build, and good engine management. At 12PSI, Brian's car still has a lot of headroom and SGP has cars pushing close to 700whp with the standard 18Gs. Also, SGP's TD06-20G upgrade is supposed to be 1,000whp capable
.So, I still remain unimpressed and have my doubts about the SFR kit. I appreciate your suggestions and input
, but I was trying to learn more about the APS Extreme kit. I haven't seen much info besides what is listed on the APS website and wanted some real world feedback about this kit and how it compares to the others.
02-08-2007, 06:53 PM
#65
Vendor - Former Vendor
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Zivman
my personal opinion is that the SFR kit is not even in the same ballpark as the APS or Greddy kit in terms of quality, fit, and finish.
If it were my car, I would choose the Xtreme APS kit. most value for the money. IMO, best quality parts - water cooled turbos, big dump pipes, fuel system with pumps and injectors, top quality FMIC.
The greddy kit definitely has potential, but as far as I am concerned, they are using outdated turbos.
If it were my car, I would choose the Xtreme APS kit. most value for the money. IMO, best quality parts - water cooled turbos, big dump pipes, fuel system with pumps and injectors, top quality FMIC.
The greddy kit definitely has potential, but as far as I am concerned, they are using outdated turbos.
I take alot of pride in our work here and when I see posts like this I get a little defensive.Especially when I help build these parts with my bare hands! Lack of qaulity? Lets see, tubular manifolds vs' cast log manifolds. The ability to run turbos in such a huge variety of configurations it makes most people cringe.All mandrel bent aluminum piping with the nicest Tig welds you will ever see. All stainless steel exhaust plumbing with TIG welding so tight you would think it was done by a robot.Massive air to air intercoolers which I know for a fact are much better cores then the APS core since I have had APS cars here.I can keep going and going but I wont.Instead I will post a couple pictures of the qaulity that comes out of our shop.
And for guys that like 1000WHP sixes.See if you can guess what kind of motor this is
Or what about some V-8's?
Or half of a V-8
[IMG]http://www.speedforceracing.com/images/products/porsche/headersstage2/951_1_2.jpg[IMG]
Last edited by TurboTim; 02-08-2007 at 07:58 PM.
02-08-2007, 08:13 PM
#67
Vendor - Former Vendor
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by turismo
Way to represent Tim. Will show them what your kit can do within the next 2 weeks or so.
Thats right
In fact I know there will be several people who will show some of the doubters what an SFR kit can do.Most of the guys that have been buying the kits are buying tuner kits to go with their fuel systems,built motors and heads,etc.......So alot of people have been building up their cars for quite some time. I guess my big point to make is that I know we had a couple issues with the first gen kit with small turbos and charge piping that went togther like a maze but this is an entirely new kit that we have been selling for the last year and a half. It is top notch and if there is anybody that has any personal experience to prove me otherwise then please come out and let me know.I inspect all of the parts before they go out and not some guy that is making $1 an hour in some sweat shop in China.We manufacture and private label parts for some large aftermarket companies and these places wouldnt buy from us if we are selling junk.Anyways,thanks for your support for all the peolple who responded in this thread.And one last thing,people will finally realize who SFR is and what we can do this year
02-09-2007, 06:35 AM
#68
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Escondido
Posts: 11,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TurboTim
Thats right In fact I know there will be several people who will show some of the doubters what an SFR kit can do.Most of the guys that have been buying the kits are buying tuner kits to go with their fuel systems,built motors and heads,etc.......So alot of people have been building up their cars for quite some time.
I guess my big point to make is that I know we had a couple issues with the first gen kit with small turbos and charge piping that went togther like a maze but this is an entirely new kit that we have been selling for the last year and a half. It is top notch and if there is anybody that has any personal experience to prove me otherwise then please come out and let me know.I inspect all of the parts before they go out and not some guy that is making $1 an hour in some sweat shop in China.We manufacture and private label parts for some large aftermarket companies and these places wouldnt buy from us if we are selling junk.Anyways,thanks for your support for all the peolple who responded in this thread.And one last thing,people will finally realize who SFR is and what we can do this year
In fact I know there will be several people who will show some of the doubters what an SFR kit can do.Most of the guys that have been buying the kits are buying tuner kits to go with their fuel systems,built motors and heads,etc.......So alot of people have been building up their cars for quite some time. I guess my big point to make is that I know we had a couple issues with the first gen kit with small turbos and charge piping that went togther like a maze but this is an entirely new kit that we have been selling for the last year and a half. It is top notch and if there is anybody that has any personal experience to prove me otherwise then please come out and let me know.I inspect all of the parts before they go out and not some guy that is making $1 an hour in some sweat shop in China.We manufacture and private label parts for some large aftermarket companies and these places wouldnt buy from us if we are selling junk.Anyways,thanks for your support for all the peolple who responded in this thread.And one last thing,people will finally realize who SFR is and what we can do this year
I don't think anyone here can say I've been an SFR fanboi. In fact I was all about putting them and SSR Engineering down when they first came on this board. But just like with VRT I decided to leave the keyboad and go check out what they are really doing at SFR and what kind of work they are really capable of. My feelings on SSR Engineering haven't changed much but I can say this much. Tim and Speed Force Racing do some very amazing work. Some of the welding and fabrication that comes out of that shop whether its on this forum or not is flat out amazing. Having been to the shop and seen Tim's metal work first hand I can honestly say its some of the best I've ever seen. Tim may be a smaller size shop without the marketing and popularity of some of the bigger names in the Z/G world but that doesn't in any way take away from the quality of his stuff. I went for a ride in Tim's Z and likewise took him for a ride in mine. They are drastically different animals of course from a design and power production point of view but to call his car insane is probably to mild a statement. After all I'm running one 60-1 and he's running two...
For an otherwise completely stock car its freakishly quick. Once the twin 60-1s hit full boost it truely is like being launched off an aircraft carrier. I'm a pretty big critic of other companies (as I'm sure EVERYONE here knows) and I wouldn't talk good about SFR's kit if I hadn't seen it first hand. Tim, keep doing what you're doing. It will pay off in the end. I know your customers are already happy. I and many other appreciate the work you do for this community and I look forward to much more.
02-09-2007, 07:56 AM
#69
I heard about Speed force racing in the year 2000 or so when i bought my porsche, I have never read anything bad about them on the porsche forums. heh I wanted to stick those half v8 heads on my v8, those heads flow so much more than a 928 head, and the NA 944 cams are bigger than the damn euro cams.
02-09-2007, 08:09 AM
#70
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Roy, WA
Posts: 738
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you can scratch the APS Extreme TT kit off your list since it's fuel system proved woefully inadequate for 700+whp (Nitrouz thread). Your decision should be between the SFR TT and the Greddy TT w/20Gs. Either of those kits plus the new CJM Dual Pump fuel system would be an excellent setup for big power.
02-09-2007, 08:18 AM
#71
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boynton Bch FL
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not protecting aps, but your comparing a system designed for a 3.5 l to a 4.2 l. I think that makes a big difference. I look foward to seeing how one works on a built stock block.
02-09-2007, 08:43 AM
#72
Originally Posted by WA2GOOD
I know you guys make some great fuel return systems, I have owned one, it is a nice piece (sold it).
But we are capable, and have made 800ish whp without any fuel return system at all.... a few times, on a few different Z's and G's. Still going strong.
But we are capable, and have made 800ish whp without any fuel return system at all.... a few times, on a few different Z's and G's. Still going strong.
I believe you've been asked several times and we ARE STILL WAITING to see numbers on a Dynojet to support your outrageous horsepower claims.
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 02-10-2007 at 10:42 AM.
02-09-2007, 08:49 AM
#73
Originally Posted by Nismo350ZRT
I think you can scratch the APS Extreme TT kit off your list since it's fuel system proved woefully inadequate for 700+whp (Nitrouz thread). Your decision should be between the SFR TT and the Greddy TT w/20Gs. Either of those kits plus the new CJM Dual Pump fuel system would be an excellent setup for big power.
02-09-2007, 08:54 AM
#74
Originally Posted by RudeG_v2.0
I read that thread and I agree with you that I can scratch the APS Exteme kit's fuel system off of my list, but not necessarily the entire kit. I'm still curious to see how GTM's "Car #2" performs with a combination of the APS Extreme kit with CJM's dual pump fuel system.
02-09-2007, 09:13 AM
#75
TurboTim,
I wasn't trying to be an SFR hater. I wasn't initially considering the SFR kit for my build because I just wasn't able to find any info out there with an SFR equipped Z or G making more power than I have already seen being produced with the Greddy kit using standard 18G turbos.
I understand that build projects can take a long time. Hell, mine is still in the planning, dreaming and research stage
. But I figured that some lucky guy with deep pockets would have done a full out build by now combining a built longblock, your turbo kit, a capable fuel system, and a good standalone EMU like the HKS FCon V-Pro to produce 700+whp by now. Or I figured that your shop would have done this to one of your own cars a long time ago (good marketing) to prove to everyone what your kit is really capable of. I'm just surprised we haven't seen or heard more in the last year and a half. I'm glad to hear that you now have those projects in the final stages and I look forward to finally seeing those big numbers soon.
As you can see if you read through this entire thread and saw my additional posts, my third consideration now (Plan C) includes your kit using the new GT-K turbos combined possibly with the CJM dual pump fuel system, and the HKS FCon V-Pro.
I wasn't trying to be an SFR hater. I wasn't initially considering the SFR kit for my build because I just wasn't able to find any info out there with an SFR equipped Z or G making more power than I have already seen being produced with the Greddy kit using standard 18G turbos.
I understand that build projects can take a long time. Hell, mine is still in the planning, dreaming and research stage
. But I figured that some lucky guy with deep pockets would have done a full out build by now combining a built longblock, your turbo kit, a capable fuel system, and a good standalone EMU like the HKS FCon V-Pro to produce 700+whp by now. Or I figured that your shop would have done this to one of your own cars a long time ago (good marketing) to prove to everyone what your kit is really capable of. I'm just surprised we haven't seen or heard more in the last year and a half. I'm glad to hear that you now have those projects in the final stages and I look forward to finally seeing those big numbers soon. As you can see if you read through this entire thread and saw my additional posts, my third consideration now (Plan C) includes your kit using the new GT-K turbos combined possibly with the CJM dual pump fuel system, and the HKS FCon V-Pro.
02-09-2007, 09:34 AM
#77
Vendor - Former Vendor
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rude G,
I understand what you are saying and you are right.You would think by now we would have some monster cars finished with big numbers but some of these guys are taking their damn time
Azulhair has the baddest set-up that I know of with an SFR kit and he is about ready to dyno the car. We have been working with him to run a cable operated twin 52mm throttlebody with our twin plenum intake manifold because I feel as though the stock TB will be an airflow restiction at 700-750WHP.
I understand what you are saying and you are right.You would think by now we would have some monster cars finished with big numbers but some of these guys are taking their damn time
Azulhair has the baddest set-up that I know of with an SFR kit and he is about ready to dyno the car. We have been working with him to run a cable operated twin 52mm throttlebody with our twin plenum intake manifold because I feel as though the stock TB will be an airflow restiction at 700-750WHP.
Originally Posted by RudeG_v2.0
TurboTim,
I wasn't trying to be an SFR hater. I wasn't initially considering the SFR kit for my build because I just wasn't able to find any info out there with an SFR equipped Z or G making more power than I have already seen being produced with the Greddy kit using standard 18G turbos.
I understand that build projects can take a long time. Hell, mine is still in the planning, dreaming and research stage. But I figured that some lucky guy with deep pockets would have done a full out build by now combining a built longblock, your turbo kit, a capable fuel system, and a good standalone EMU like the HKS FCon V-Pro to produce 700+whp by now. Or I figured that your shop would have done this to one of your own cars a long time ago (good marketing) to prove to everyone what your kit is really capable of. I'm just surprised we haven't seen or heard more in the last year and a half. I'm glad to hear that you now have those projects in the final stages and I look forward to finally seeing those big numbers soon.
As you can see if you read through this entire thread and saw my additional posts, my third consideration now (Plan C) includes your kit using the new GT-K turbos combined possibly with the CJM dual pump fuel system, and the HKS FCon V-Pro.
I wasn't trying to be an SFR hater. I wasn't initially considering the SFR kit for my build because I just wasn't able to find any info out there with an SFR equipped Z or G making more power than I have already seen being produced with the Greddy kit using standard 18G turbos.
I understand that build projects can take a long time. Hell, mine is still in the planning, dreaming and research stage
. But I figured that some lucky guy with deep pockets would have done a full out build by now combining a built longblock, your turbo kit, a capable fuel system, and a good standalone EMU like the HKS FCon V-Pro to produce 700+whp by now. Or I figured that your shop would have done this to one of your own cars a long time ago (good marketing) to prove to everyone what your kit is really capable of. I'm just surprised we haven't seen or heard more in the last year and a half. I'm glad to hear that you now have those projects in the final stages and I look forward to finally seeing those big numbers soon. As you can see if you read through this entire thread and saw my additional posts, my third consideration now (Plan C) includes your kit using the new GT-K turbos combined possibly with the CJM dual pump fuel system, and the HKS FCon V-Pro.
02-09-2007, 09:43 AM
#78
Vendor - Former Vendor
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
I don't think anyone here can say I've been an SFR fanboi.
02-09-2007, 09:45 AM
#79
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Escondido
Posts: 11,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TurboTim
Oh yes you are.Remember you have a picture of me in my tighty whiteys hanging on your bedroom wall
02-09-2007, 11:26 AM
#80
Originally Posted by Zivman
The fuel system is more than capbable, however with increased displacement as is the case with Nitrouz's car, larger injectors may be needed
Basically, I am just saying that the displacement is not what is causing the injectors to max out at this HP. If there is something causing this system to max out below its potential, displacement is not the factor.
Last edited by phunk; 02-09-2007 at 11:29 AM.