Hey guys,

This is my first post on this site. I haven't had much luck on G35driver.com finding info about the APS Extreme kit, so I thought I would start a thread here.

I'm doing research for my build project and I'm considering both of these turbo kits. I intend to build the longblock, including a Darton sleeve, head work, oversize valves, and cams.

I'm curious to know how the APS Extreme kit compares to the Greddy kit, which has already proven 600+ whp capability on standard 18G turbos with a built engine, fuel system upgrades, and good EMU with a good tune. I'm also considering a 20G turbo upgrade offered by SGP Racing and I'm curious if those turbos would be a better comparison for the bigger turbos in the APS Extreme kit. The last time I talked to Mark Gust was about the middle of last year and they hadn't installed an Extreme kit yet. I know that the APS website rates the Extreme kit at 600-1,000 horsepower flywheel, but I have yet to see or hear of anyone with a G or Z that is pushing the higher end of that spectrum.

Anybody know of any advantages or disadvantages of one kit versus the other? Which ultimately has the most power capability?

Thanks.

 

I would also consider the Speedforceracing.com kit. I think this is the best overall kit. It uses twin 60-1 ball bearing turbos and is very efficient. I think this kit has the potential to make over 1100hp, with there stage 4 housings.

 

+1 on the SFR kit. If I were going for max HP, that'd be the kit I'd go with.

 

Plus you have a choice on 321ss for your manifolds

 

321 is some awesome material and is definitly the way to go if you can afford it (and don't have the tons of money it requires for inconnel not to mention the connections for it). While the SFR kit does not seem to have as much info out there in regards to what mods work well together and such since fewer people have it, it should definitly be on your list of quality kits to meet high horsepower goals.

 

For some reason i just dont trust shop made kits because of fit ment issues. If i were in your position, i'd go with the greddy kit because of part availability (they have several US wearhouses). But if you want a more complete kit, APS extreme is probably the best

 

Thanks for the tips so far guys.

The reason I'm asking for comparisons between the APS Extreme and the Greddy kit is because I know that SGP Racing does both brands. I didn't consider SFR's kit because I was planning to go to SGP Racing to build the motor. Last September, Mark Gust referred me to a customer and friend here in Arizona, who you guys might know as "bverschage". He has a built 350Z with the Greddy kit and it is absolutely SICK(550whp on 91 octane at 12PSI)!!! I was so impressed with his car and the way Mark was with me over the phone. I have also heard nothing but good about SGP on this forum and over on G35driver.com. So, I'm pretty set on going to them to work on my G when the time comes.

I haven't spoken with Mark since then. He is supposed to be coming into town soon to tune another guys car and I was planning to ask him these questions when I finally meet him in person.

But I figured I would ask all of you guys in the meantime, because I want to get as much input from different sources as possible. I'm starting to lean towards the Greddy kit and doing SGP's 20G upgrade, but I'm still curious about the Extreme kit from APS.

So, keep the comments coming! I'd appreciate any input and insight you guys have about either or both of these kits.

 

SFR kit will make more power and the manifolds flow better than the cast iron greddy ones.

 

I totally agree however, I think that the SFR kit is awesome. The quality of the SFR is probably far better than the Greddy kit which has the worst cast manifolds(cracking issues) and will make more power than the Greddy 18Gs. Part availability is important though.
I talked to Sharif about the 20G upgrade and he told me to go with an APS Extreme Kit. The only problem was that I already had the Greddy kit so, I opted for the TD06-60-1 upgrade for the 18Gs through turbochargers.com. This is another option that is probably the most cost effective and the only drawback is the manifolds. Like I said before, im hoping my G will be done by the end of next month so, we'll have some power numbers for comparison. Sharif runs the TD06-60-1s on his 350Z and he's making 650rwhp @19psi on pump so, thats promising. Good luck with which ever kit you go with and keep everyone informed.

 

I sold my PE kit and purchased the SFR kit becuase of my hp goals. I am extremely happy with the quality of the kit and it comes with everything you need.

The greddy kit is nice, but I am not fond of Mitsubishi turbos. Yes they do the job, but they cant compare to the newer turbos that are on the market.

APS has had problems with there extreme fuels system kit. Plus, you will have a hard time contacting them if anything should go wrong.

 

I found out about sfr through racing one. I was on 9psi and the guy was on 5psi. I had my PE kit tuned and made 416rwhp. We ran about 10 times that day and each run came down to who got the jump. The kit sounded awesome and pull real hard for the amount of boost he was running. SGP did the install for the guy with the SFR kit.

 

Hmm...interesting. I did not know SGP installed the SFR kit as well. It's not listed on their wesbsite. If I chose the SFR kit, I assumed I would have to go out to San Diego to have SFR install it themselves. I will have to ask Mark about this when I meet him. Thanks for the tip.

 

Why would you need to do that, when you can have them order it. Are you can order it yourself. Tim is a real nice guy to talk too and will answer any quesitions you have.

I think SGP is partial to the greddy kit becuase they sell so many, plus they are distributors.

 

OK, I get it that some of you guys like the SFR kit. But does anyone else have anything to add about my original question (APS Extreme vs. Greddy w/ 20G upgrade)?

 

another vote for the SFR kit....
Plus, ... WHO'd want to drive to Houston when you can take a much nicer drive to San Diego!! LOL



but if you must choose between the greddy and aps extreme, ... i'd go with the aps ..... b/c of the fuel system you would get with it too.... but i think the 20g greddy (and most certainly the SFR kit) will make more hp though....
but how much hp do you really need????

 

Sorry SFR fans, but I'm still not convinced of this kit's superiority.

Here are my reasons:

I have the February 2006 issue of DSport magazine which features the SFR TT G35. This was my first exposure to this kit and I started researching it after I read that article.

-I did not like the idea of mounting the turbos further away and down low, which increases lag and necessitates the use of a Mocal scavenging pump.

-I also have not heard good things about the Split Second EMU.

-The power numbers in that DSport article are unimpressive compared to the SGP customer car here in AZ. The SFR car has a full engine build including Ferrea oversize valves, yet it is making only 452hp & 370ft/lbs at 13PSI of boost. The SGP car does not include oversize valves, yet it is making 550whp & 508ft/lbs at 12PSI. Both cars are running 8.5:1 compression ratio on 91 octane. The SGP car is achieving this with standard Greddy 18G turbos and the superior HKS FCon V-Pro EMU. Here's the link to his thread about his build: https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction/217702-thanks-to-sgp-racing-my-f-i-story.html

-I also went and checked the SFR website again, in case I missed something or a recent update. The turbo system page states 510hp & 469ft/lbs at 13.6PSI. http://www.speedforceracing.com/prod...35turbokit.php I searched the rest of the SFR website and could not find any wheel horsepower or torque numbers that were superior.

I don't doubt that the 60-1 turbos in the SFR kit are capable of making big power. The 18G turbos are also capable of big power when combined with good fuel system upgrades, good engine build, and good engine management. At 12PSI, Brian's car still has a lot of headroom and SGP has cars pushing close to 700whp with the standard 18Gs. Also, SGP's TD06-20G upgrade is supposed to be 1,000whp capable.

So, I still remain unimpressed and have my doubts about the SFR kit. I appreciate your suggestions and input, but I was trying to learn more about the APS Extreme kit. I haven't seen much info besides what is listed on the APS website and wanted some real world feedback about this kit and how it compares to the others.

 

well, you know what they say about doubting Thomas' ....

It's not my intention to clutter your thread with a debate on something you were not asking about originally, .... However, ... some of your comparison's are not apple's to apple's.

The customer's "car" that was featured was 1) an automatic 2)not tuned for the power potential it has.
It's like saying, ... "i'm not impressed with the 600hp capable car b/c it's not fully tuned yet." Which, at the time of writing, it wasn't. I'm sure Tim or someone will correct me if I'm wrong on that one. But it is hard to get the cover of a mag as it is, and when things get rushed so it can be done, that's what happens.

Also, if you find the "big turbo kit comparison shootout" done a couple years ago by 'another' mag, ... you'll see that again, ... totally inappropriate comparisons were made on many accounts.

Anyway, ... the mounting of the turbos in the SFR kit allows for use of significantly larger sized turbo than either you are asking about....
AND, there is no 'lag' introduced while using the SFR manifolds..... don't believe me? Talk to Tim, ... ride in his Z, ... then let everyone know what you think.
Second point about what you pointed out about he SFR kit, ... the Split Second box, ... sure, it's not the end all solution for high power FI needs, but it works well for basics (funny that Jim Wolf would use it if it didn't).
Tim will recommend something different if you are looking for more HP. Lots of options out there (including the FCON as you mentioned), ... so no love loss there.....

As far a 'bigger' numbers on the SFR site, ... those are on Tim's Z, stock motor, etc, ... I think one listed w/built motor was a customers car (not sure), but he has far surpassed that on his own Z...

If you search the boards here though, ... there have already been a couple posts about the APS "extreme" kit, ... which has not proven to be very "extreme", except for the cost.... ... You will probably not see much more HP out of the APS Ex over the standard greddy kit, .... either of which are not going to get you close to the 1000whp mark, .....
which is why i asked, how much HP do you need???

You seem like you want to do a good amount of research before you decide on something, ... but it also seems you have your mind set on something already....
on a side note, ... I'm sure you will see more info on cars this year with the SFR kit...

 

The SFR kit in the Dsport article was with smaller t3 super 60 turbos and not the 60-1 hifi's

BTW 60-1 comp wheels are capable of 65lb/min airflow each which is about 1300 flywheel horsepower total. They are the highest flowing turbos you can get in a kit right now.

I have never really seen a good comp map for the 20g turbos but I think its close to 55lb/min. Can anyone correct me on this?

I had the SFR kit and sold it and im now running the greddy kit with upgraded turbos. The SFR kit is really nice and Tim is great to deal with. I would still have mine if my plans for the car hadnt changed.

 

I would get the APS setup. Comes with a great fuel system and includes the big test pipes. It is a great value when you look at what is included and will make enough power to destroy the tranny and rear end

 

Actually 60-1 compressors peak flow are 57 lb/min but you are correct. The compressor and turbine section of the 60-1 / Stage 3 turbos Tim uses on the SFR kit is the highest flowing twin turbo setup you can get right now. 60-1/TD06 upgrades will get you compressors that can flow that much but the turbines are a limiting factor... Either way 1000 WHP or very close to it is completely possible with the SFR 60-1 kit. If you wanted more you could opt for 62-1 compressor wheels instead of 60-1s. The 62-1 wheels will flow 65 lb/min. There's also room to step up to Stage V turbines if you are stroking the motor and need the added top end flow... If I was looking for HUGE power on a twin turbo the SFR kit is the route I would go. But I'm a ST guy...

As for the engine management Tim will do whatever EMS you want with the kit. The Split Second unit is what he is using right now but he can do a UTEC, EU, or whatever else you want. If it was me, and I wanted a huge power twin kit it would be SFR with twin GT-K 500s or twin GT-K 550s. I'd use the Haltech e11v2 for the EMS. Unless I'm not up to speed on the Fcon the Haltech is the only unit controlling cam phasing right now. But even if the HKS is I would still use the Haltech as it is end user tunable and their trim module is the poop...