I only brush my teeth once a day and I haven't had a cavity in over 15 yrs.

 

Wow, what engine management do you use? I mean toothpaste?

 

Armando:

what is your intention of getting in such a pointless arguement...gotta love how some people can make an arguement over anything/nothing...

And just so you know, in case you think you are "backing up Sam[ with your original post], he doesn't need it, he has an excellent reputation, and as I stated, he is the go-to guy for anyone in California, just as Sharif is the man in GA and surrounding areas, and we supply several areas around us...there are lots of enthusiasts lookign for motors, hopefully it nevers comes to the point of pettiness....I have turned down business before and had them buy from Sam just because of their geographical location

FACT of the matter is, it doesn't matter...

and my personal background, since you seem to know so much about me (attempting to attack me personally by naming how OVERQUALIFIED I am to be building motors is reeally a pathetic attempt)..

I went to school for over 6 years, am a Chiropractor
-DC Docotor of Chiropractic Degree
-BS in Human Biology...
-have a very successful chiropractic practice in Albuquerque NM (www.gonstead-nm.com)

and, happen to be a car enthusiast, that got very involved int he vq35, and then started a successful business (www.builtZmotors.com) been doing R&D on these engines since 2004..been building them personally for over the past year...teamed up with some of the best machinists/engine builders/racers in the country.

there is my story, where are your qualifications?
so, if anything, if I have the mental capacity to become a Doctor, building an engine is not much of a challenge

And the fuel debate, it IS about compression...you can safely run a bit more timing on a lower CR engine...so even if the stock ECU is on its conservative timing map, it is nowhere within its limits of detonating on a naturally aspirated built 9:1 motor on 87 octane...

and, in NM, we are at much higher elevation than other parts of the country, this allows a 2-3 degree ignition advance window...or it accounts for a few octane points on the fuel rating...that's why the highest octane we have is 91 here, wheras at lower elevation, where a vehicle would be more detonation prone, they offer 93 octane at the pump. so technically, 87 octane is really like 89/90 octane...at this elevation that is.

And I AM NOT promoting running 87 octane in a low compression motor, but for the sake of arguement, it is doable, I personally would still run 91, but that is me, maybe cause I'm a Chiropractor

Thnaks for your imput though, very interesting

 

My argument is not pointless, it is somebody's engine on the line. I think vendors like yourself have a certain responsibility to not give out bad information, for you to say it is ok to run 87 octane on that engine is totally inaccurate and I can prove it. Now, I'm not trying to attack you personally but I have been a member on this forum longer then you have (since 2002) and I do remember reading when you blew up several of your engines back in the day, or maybe that's what you call "R&D". It was always known to me and everyone that you were a chiropractor, it even said so in your personal profile. So Todd, to change career over night and become an "engine builder" is acceptable and is your choice. But to share false information is totally unacceptable and irresponsible, you literally had your customer believe that it was "ok" to run 87 octane in his car.

Now as far as GT Motorsports, you are correct on this. They don't need any backing, I am a customer of GT Motorsports and I am getting my engine built from them. Just going there and seeing what's involved in the building process and the investment they have made to be the best in the industry will tell you that they have been doing this for a very long time and didn't happen in the last six months, so please leave GT Motorsports out of this.

I got curious to see you becoming a "professional engine builder" overnight, as you can see it's not that simple. Sorry if this came out as a personal attack it wasn't my intentions. Good luck on your new career

Armando

 

I will vouch for Todd and his motors and his assembly..His motors are professionally machined and assembled, to very nice specs.
The heart of a motor is the quality and knowledge of the machinist doing the machining, and the builders attention to detail. Todds motors have over 20+ years of engine building experience going inot each motor...
We also carry and sell and install BuilZmotors FWIW..

 

Wicked4u2c, Todd did not tell me its ok to run 87 in the car, or make me belive it. I actually had to run a tank of it once, and with no ill effects i ran more. I dynoed it on 86 octane. The a/f was 11.9-13.2 now you tell me how the fck that is going to make detonation? Its not. Seriously you have no idea what you are talking about. 9:0.1 compression does not require 91+ octane. Why don't you prove it instead of starting a pissing match?

I bet you would run 91+ on a 8:0.1 compression motor just because the label on your fuel door tells you to do that. You wont hurt a stock vq running 87. Nissan designed the engine to run on the lowest octane avalible in the US because some ones dumb wife might fill it up and blow the engine. The only thing running 91+ does is let the ecu advance the timing for the maximum performance of the engine ( Maximum Ignition Advance). And BTW i don't have 87 here. I ran 86 in it. It has over 10000 miles on it. I do run 90 octane now because the factory ecu will still advance the timing, and im using the ECU timing on the utec.

I used 86 octane in my 2004 altima 3.5se for 3 years and 75k miles. It never had one problem. Its the same engine, and your argument is nill and invalid. I also used 86 octane in my Porsche 928 wich had 9:5.1 compression, for 5 years. I think I would know if my engine would die on 86. Quit magazine racing and get some actual results on what octane does.

Now i think since Todd is a doctor, and builds engines. He is smarter than you. Building an engine isnt really magic or rocket science. I bet you human biology is harder...

 

For what its worth.....my neighbors have a late 90's lexus es300 that "requires premium fuel". He never bought into that and has only used 87 octane for the last 200k+ trouble free miles.

Also having said that, another friend has a 99 maxima that has only seen 87 octane also for the last 80k miles. He heard knock once off a certain brand of gas, but never again afterwards...

In most cases the ECU should compensate for lower grades of gas at the expense of losing a few hp that most people won't notice anyways.

 

I feel like I'm arguing in circles here..so I won't continue....

But just so you know, I didn't switch careers, by ANY means...

Do you really think I would go to school for over 6 years, build a huge practice, seeing/helping tons of people, and then give it up to build only one specific type of engine???
I still practice and manage to have a few days a week to physically assemble engines when they get back from machining, because I ENJOY IT.

Bringing up my history...
I was one of the first in the country to have a built motor after my stocker blew while running the emanage blue and a bit too much timing...

If you are going to make an omelate, you have to break some eggs, and I sunk a ton of money and time into my own personal car to safely and sevurely run more and more boost, it was a learning experience, and I learned lots... we now one of the best products available, after tried and tested results...

There is a lot more out for the vq now than a few years back, we have all come a long way...

good for you that you have been on here since 2002, guess that makes you cooler ... you are a tool..stop mentioning GT motorports, they don't need your bad publicity...

 

yah, obviously wicked4manjuice wants to argue for the sake of arguing... thanks for sharing, to further validate my point...

 

Another point i will bring up and im done. Uprev can put 3-5 maps in a stock ecu, depending on the year of it. The reason is, is that the ECU comes with 3-5 maps so that the engine can run in different conditions (there is a map in it for the worst possible conditions). Nissan is not going to release programming in the stock computer to run in only ideal conditions. Take a few programming classes and you will understand how this all works.

I'm done arguing with you magazine racers. I also welded my differential last night. I guess that means im going to die or something lol. BTW im also at 3900ft elevation. Todd is at around 5500-6000ft depending on how far in the mountians he goes. So if i run a 14.0 1/4 time i would run like a 13.2 at sea level. I hope for the sake of all of you people buying into the fcon it can changes its fueling by altitude, it sure would be bad for you drive up too 6000ft on a sea level tune.

I put 10,000 miles on my engine from December 06 too March of 07, i should have 12k miles by the end of this month. My car is far from a garage queen or weekend car. I think that alone can vouch for the quality of Todds work. I had the engine broke in the first week, 1500 miles.

 

anticipating transformer movie, lol

 

one day when i am bored i am going to use a couple of your posts to argue with myself

 

Jon I think this is a win win situation for you no mater where you get your engine from, your bound to get a good engine. All of the vendors listed above are capable of producing a good quality product


Thanks again for your interest in our product, and good luck to you!

Sam

GT Motorsports

 

Rock,


I'm not being or sarcastic towards your statement. I just want to share some things with you. I have been in this business for over 20 years, the first five don't even count because you are in the learning stages, the last fifteen I have been solely involved in driveability, emission testing, and tuning in real world. This is what I do for a living. Now i have at least flashed and tuned hundreds of OEM ECUs like Subarus, GMs, Minis, and Mitsubishi. I have been working with Up Rev and we are at this moment utilizing their software to flash Nissan ECUs in our shop. To get to the million dollar question, of course you can run 87 octane in any thing as long that the ECU is completely remapped/tuned for 87 octane. By you saying lowering the compression is adequate enough to run 87 octane is a total assumption on your part. It cannot, and will never be that simple, There are too many variables. If it was as simple as the OEM ECU utilizing its dynamic tables to switch timing betwen maps and save the engine, we would never have a blown engine on this forum. The factory ECU would just switch maps and every thing will be ok if that was the case. Another point I would like to make i can guarantee you that there are no such timing tables in the Nissan ECU programmed by the engineers for someone lowering compression and running 87 octane. I don't think they thought of that, now maybe you know something I don't know about the way Nissan maps their ECUs.


As far as FCon comment. The FCon does have altitude compensation so you will never have to worry about tuning a car at see level and then going to 5,000 feet. This is just another assumption on your part

Hope I didn't step on any toes and if I did, I apologize in advance


sam

Gt motorsports

 

you have no idea how much i appreciate this post.. at least now he will understand coming from someone with your background and intelligence..

rocks and his buddy are master hacks.. i knew that from they were goin on and on about the copied TN kit

 

I too can vouch for Dr Todd at BuiltZMotors.

 

Someones "OTHER" profession should make no difference in their true passion.I have had a certain VERY "COCKY" person on this board say the same to me as far as me having another profession besided MRC. However I look at it like this..
That other certain "COCKY" person does this stuff for a living, and relies on his income from this to survive, where as I do it for the passion I have for the industry and do not "NEED" to make money from what I do here at MRC. We dont HAVE to sell our customers stuff they dont need or will never utilize to get by...We are 100% upfront and honest with our customers and never TALK them into anything or sell them stuff they dont need..We can ADVISE them of what we would do in certain applications, but not sell them a load of BS bells and whisltle..Every customer of ours comes back for more..Ask Doug
So I feel it is healthy that Tood has another well paying profession, where it allows him not to vulture sales like some other ****** on this thread

 

Samer, Up late again I see (This guy never sleeps) It really is a mute point, but you are absolutely right, the ECU doesn't have a pre-anticipated lower CR timing map, this is true, but seperate timing maps DO exist, and not for a turbo-charged application of pulling several degrees of timing, but for minor adjustements that would be seen, in say, a different fuel octane.

Using logic and understanding the physics behind how cylinder pressure and ignition timing work together (I know that you can school anyone on this forum- not questioning your knowledge, just trying to prove a point for the audience ), when the CR of the piston is lowered, the detonation threshold rises, meaning there is more "room" or "forgiveness" for a more unstable fuel (lower octane), because the cylinder pressures will NEVER reach what they did with the stock CR piston, therfore, a lower octane fuel will theoretically "act" like a fuel of a few octane points higher, let's say, the 86/87 octane will "act/behave" like an 88/89 octane, because of the lower dynamic CR of the built engine....

Now, one of the most important additional factors that allows this to work is ROCKS engine, is his altitude. We all know that at higher altitude, the density of the oxygen rich air is reduced. At sea-level, one atmosphere, or 14.7psi is the theoretical/actual standard, as you go up, that number lowers, Gurgen (the mad scientist) and I calculated it at one time, in Albuquerque, at 5500ft altitude, we are at approx. 12.2psi, bottm line, less oxygen density- producing lower cylinder pressures on a naturally aspirated engine- without a doubt...This is an additonal "theoretical octane boosting/detonation threshold rising" component. So now, theoretically, the fuel would "behave" in a lower CR engine/higher altitude environment like 90 or 91 octane...
We can do a compression test up here and see a perfectly healthy 9:1 CR engine with cylinder pressures around 120-130..wheras at sealevel, one would see as high as 160+

So, these two factors, irreguardless of the ability of the Nissan ECU to decifer a 9:1CR engine, the cylinder pressures will be lower, raising the detonation threshold, if the ECU did pick up any knock, it would switch to the most conservative map- and most likely(true an assumption- but probably correct) , if it still knocked, the engine would slowly/or quickly (depending on the intensity of knock) break down- we haven't seen that yet

Again, I didn't promote or advise anyone to run 87 octane in this engine, Rocks was simply sharing that he did this, and then Armando decided to put on his expert hat and start to critisize ME for advising customers to do so. Just clarifying, and figured while on the subject, let's have an intelligent discussion as to how and why 87 octane would be feasible in a vq35 under certain circumstances.

This thread really tranformed, but interesting "debates" are many times informative. The topic starter was asking where to buy an engine, as stated previously, there are a few great options, and again, GT Motorsports is an excellent operation. Now Samer, get some sleep!

-TODD

 

Even if you can, why be a cheap@ss and put cheap 87 octane in a Z? Sell your Z and buy a sentra.

 

Todd I think your missing my point, I'm glade you admitting that [QUOTE=350zDCalb](true an assumption- but probably correct) .I learned long time ago never to assume. always apply the data and rely on the facts .the line of business I'm in, there is no room for assumption... I would leave it at that


Sam

GT MOTORSPORTS